Thank you.
Alas, that leaves the name of the author of the majority of the write-ups on old bareknuckle fighters in IPB and FFP&P unknown.
Yesterday was too late to look it up, but I had a quick glance at the extracts from Bradley's book in FFP&P just now, he stated that he knew Jem Ward from 1878, and Ward showed him some boxing positions and blows of the old-timers.
Jimmy Wilde and his early opponents
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prewarboxing
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Re: Jimmy Wilde and his early opponents
Your are quite right. No such bout ever took place. There was no boxing at The Ring Blackfriars at all that day. Where on Earth has this bout come from? The two of them never met in England at all.
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Re: Jimmy Wilde and his early opponents
Senya13 - you stated that you still wish to see the obit on Bradley from the 1923 Mirror of Life.
I will get this for you when I go to the National Newspaper Library at Boston Spa within the next week. I will then post it on here. Good to see a man like J Frank Bradley being remembered. He was a real boxing man and a top referee in his day.
I will get this for you when I go to the National Newspaper Library at Boston Spa within the next week. I will then post it on here. Good to see a man like J Frank Bradley being remembered. He was a real boxing man and a top referee in his day.
Re: Jimmy Wilde and his early opponents
Another great sporting writer of the day, Harry E. Cleveland, quoted Willie Lewis in Sep 25, 1916 Birmingham Evening Despatch:
"One hears a lot about the gameness of such-and-such a fighter. I wonder if any man ever displayed the courage and bravery that the Kid showed in his last fight--the one against Petty Officer Curran in London three or four years ago. I had a ringside seat for that affair."
McCoy himself created some myths about their bout in Nice, about that bout being his hardest, him drinking a glass of Scotch when he was knocked down, etc, and for some reason Willie Lewis repeated these myths in his recollections.
I only have a report of this bout by THE CHEF DE PARTIE from Jan 27, 1912 London Sporting Times, and it doesn't confirm most of the things McCoy was afterwards telling everyone who would listen. Marquis of Queensberry was also quoted in Feb 10, 1912 Chicago Tribune as having received a letter from a friend who was present at the bout, and he didn't mention multiple KD's, etc, either.
"One hears a lot about the gameness of such-and-such a fighter. I wonder if any man ever displayed the courage and bravery that the Kid showed in his last fight--the one against Petty Officer Curran in London three or four years ago. I had a ringside seat for that affair."
McCoy himself created some myths about their bout in Nice, about that bout being his hardest, him drinking a glass of Scotch when he was knocked down, etc, and for some reason Willie Lewis repeated these myths in his recollections.
I only have a report of this bout by THE CHEF DE PARTIE from Jan 27, 1912 London Sporting Times, and it doesn't confirm most of the things McCoy was afterwards telling everyone who would listen. Marquis of Queensberry was also quoted in Feb 10, 1912 Chicago Tribune as having received a letter from a friend who was present at the bout, and he didn't mention multiple KD's, etc, either.
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prewarboxing
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Re: Jimmy Wilde and his early opponents
I am pretty sure that Cleveland/Lewis are referring to the Nice contest between the two in 1912 and have stated that it took place in London in error. McCoy's last contest, if one excludes the 4 rounder in August 1916, was this bout against Curran in Nice in 1912. I am certain the two did not meet in London at any time.Senya13 wrote: ↑16 May 2018, 04:56 Another great sporting writer of the day, Harry E. Cleveland, quoted Willie Lewis in Sep 25, 1916 Birmingham Evening Despatch:
"One hears a lot about the gameness of such-and-such a fighter. I wonder if any man ever displayed the courage and bravery that the Kid showed in his last fight--the one against Petty Officer Curran in London three or four years ago. I had a ringside seat for that affair."
McCoy himself created some myths about their bout in Nice, about that bout being his hardest, him drinking a glass of Scotch when he was knocked down, etc, and for some reason Willie Lewis repeated these myths in his recollections.
I only have a report of this bout by THE CHEF DE PARTIE from Jan 27, 1912 London Sporting Times, and it doesn't confirm most of the things McCoy was afterwards telling everyone who would listen. Marquis of Queensberry was also quoted in Feb 10, 1912 Chicago Tribune as having received a letter from a friend who was present at the bout, and he didn't mention multiple KD's, etc, either.
I will post the Boxing World report of the 1912 Nice contest.
The 1914 bout on BoxRec is an error and should be removed.
We seem to have gone a bit off topic from Jimmy Wilde and his early opponents!
Miles Templeton.
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prewarboxing
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Re: Jimmy Wilde and his early opponents
I have no idea how to post images here, but I can send you a round-by-round report of the Nice bout from the day-after local paper (it's in French though).Senya13 wrote: ↑16 May 2018, 04:56 Another great sporting writer of the day, Harry E. Cleveland, quoted Willie Lewis in Sep 25, 1916 Birmingham Evening Despatch:
"One hears a lot about the gameness of such-and-such a fighter. I wonder if any man ever displayed the courage and bravery that the Kid showed in his last fight--the one against Petty Officer Curran in London three or four years ago. I had a ringside seat for that affair."
McCoy himself created some myths about their bout in Nice, about that bout being his hardest, him drinking a glass of Scotch when he was knocked down, etc, and for some reason Willie Lewis repeated these myths in his recollections.
I only have a report of this bout by THE CHEF DE PARTIE from Jan 27, 1912 London Sporting Times, and it doesn't confirm most of the things McCoy was afterwards telling everyone who would listen. Marquis of Queensberry was also quoted in Feb 10, 1912 Chicago Tribune as having received a letter from a friend who was present at the bout, and he didn't mention multiple KD's, etc, either.
Re: Jimmy Wilde and his early opponents
McCoy's 1916 "bout" was a 3-round exhibition.
1916-08-06 The Sun (New York, NY) (page S5)
By EDWIN C. HILL.
...
A few nights ago at Mission, up the Rio Grande Valley, the Second Brigade of Gen. O'Ryan's division gave its bi-weekly, out of doors, free vaudeville show and boxing exhibition. A stage--an eighteen foot ring, rather--was raised in the centre of a drill ground, a ring designed by the experienced Kid McCoy, who, as Private Norman Selby of the Seventy-first New York Infantry and orderly to Col. Bates, is one of the ornaments of the service and of the border.
...
There were monologists, conscripted from several regiments, that made the crowd laugh, and ballad singers that recalled in clear tenor and rumbling bass the mothers and the girls the soldiers had left behind them, and three or four fast, good humored bouts between company champions, and finally the star bout, presenting Kid McCoy, former light heavyweight champion of the world, and Arthur Sheridan, former amateur champion heavyweight. They went three fast rounds--the venerable Kid has about three rounds of nifty footwork and wind left in him--and the crowd simply hollered with delight. It was true that there seemed to be a gentleman's agreement between the Kid and Arthur not to hit below the wishbone, but outside of that it was a regular boxfight.
...
1916-08-06 The Sun (New York, NY) (page S5)
By EDWIN C. HILL.
...
A few nights ago at Mission, up the Rio Grande Valley, the Second Brigade of Gen. O'Ryan's division gave its bi-weekly, out of doors, free vaudeville show and boxing exhibition. A stage--an eighteen foot ring, rather--was raised in the centre of a drill ground, a ring designed by the experienced Kid McCoy, who, as Private Norman Selby of the Seventy-first New York Infantry and orderly to Col. Bates, is one of the ornaments of the service and of the border.
...
There were monologists, conscripted from several regiments, that made the crowd laugh, and ballad singers that recalled in clear tenor and rumbling bass the mothers and the girls the soldiers had left behind them, and three or four fast, good humored bouts between company champions, and finally the star bout, presenting Kid McCoy, former light heavyweight champion of the world, and Arthur Sheridan, former amateur champion heavyweight. They went three fast rounds--the venerable Kid has about three rounds of nifty footwork and wind left in him--and the crowd simply hollered with delight. It was true that there seemed to be a gentleman's agreement between the Kid and Arthur not to hit below the wishbone, but outside of that it was a regular boxfight.
...
Re: Jimmy Wilde and his early opponents
Would be nice to see it. [email protected]
Re: Jimmy Wilde and his early opponents
wouter wrote: ↑16 May 2018, 06:40I have no idea how to post images here, but I can send you a round-by-round report of the Nice bout from the day-after local paper (it's in French though).Senya13 wrote: ↑16 May 2018, 04:56 Another great sporting writer of the day, Harry E. Cleveland, quoted Willie Lewis in Sep 25, 1916 Birmingham Evening Despatch:
"One hears a lot about the gameness of such-and-such a fighter. I wonder if any man ever displayed the courage and bravery that the Kid showed in his last fight--the one against Petty Officer Curran in London three or four years ago. I had a ringside seat for that affair."
McCoy himself created some myths about their bout in Nice, about that bout being his hardest, him drinking a glass of Scotch when he was knocked down, etc, and for some reason Willie Lewis repeated these myths in his recollections.
I only have a report of this bout by THE CHEF DE PARTIE from Jan 27, 1912 London Sporting Times, and it doesn't confirm most of the things McCoy was afterwards telling everyone who would listen. Marquis of Queensberry was also quoted in Feb 10, 1912 Chicago Tribune as having received a letter from a friend who was present at the bout, and he didn't mention multiple KD's, etc, either.
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[img]www.imagehost.com/imageurl.png[/img]Re: Jimmy Wilde and his early opponents
Ok, thanks to wouter, here's a report from local newspaper, in French. I don't know French at all, so forgive me if there are any mistakes, I tried my best retyping it.
Les Grands Matchs de Boxe à Nice
--------
Kid Mac Coy (Américain)
----BAT AUX POINTS----
P. O. Curran (Anglais)
--------
La vaste el superbe salle du Palais de la Jetée-Promenade regorgeait, hier soir, d'une foule élégante et choisie, venue là pour assister au grand combat de boxe anglaise entre le réputé champion américain Kid Mac Coy et le champion anglais P. O. Curran.
Le premier, comme on le sait, est un athlète de tout premier ordre. Ex-champion d'Europe des poids moyens, Kid Mac Coy avait abandonné le ring où il obtenait, il y a quelques années, de magnifiques succès. Puis, le sympathique Kid se remettait à l'entrainement et réussissait, dernièrement, à s'adjuger deux superbes victoires, notamment, sur le terrible nègre Gunther.
Son match d'hier soir contre le poids lourd Curran est une nouvelle et éclatante victoire.
Nous avons dit qu'une assistance choisie s'était rendue, hier soir, au Palais de la Jetée. Toute la colonie anglaise et américaine était là, venue pour encourager son champion respectif.
Nous citerons, entr'autres, M. Balfour, ex-ministre anglais, entouré des membres de l'aristocratie anglaise. Au hasard du crayon, nous avons note également la présence de: MM, le comic Amédéo Galatti di Rielia, Moitessier, Maubert, Louis Willaume, Weber, M. et Mme Duret, M. et Mme Paoli, etc., etc.
Avant le grand match, nous avons assisté à trois rencontres d'amateurs, qui ne furent certainement, pas des plus passionnantes: les deux premiers présentèrent, toutefois, un joli intérêt.
Le match Kid Mac Coy-Curran, commencé à 11 h ½, ne se termina qu'â 1 heure du matin, après un combat des plus vifs en 20 rounds de 3 minutes.
Curran, beaucoup plus lourd que son adversaire, paraissait, de prime abord, devoir emporter facilement la victoire, mais dès le second round, le merveilleux Kid prenait le meilleur, et jusqu'à la fin, il fit mouture d'une réelle supériorité.
Au début, Curran attaqua avec une vigueur extraordinaire et réussit à placer quelques bons coups que Mac Coy encaissait le sourire sur les lèvres. Tous les efforts du colosse anglais restèrent vains dans les dix premiers rounds: au contraire, les coups de Mac Coy portés avec précision et vigueur, ne tardèrent pas à marquer sérieusement au visage. Les deux arcades sourcilières ouvertes, la face tuméfiée, le nez écorché, Curran fit bientôt piteuse mine et ses attaques vigoureuses du début firent place à une prudente défensive. Mac Coy encaissa avec aisance tout ce que son défenseur réussissait à lui décocher, tandis qu'il plaçait à qui mieux mieux des directs et des upercuts.
Pendant les dix derniers rounds, Curran se tint sur la défensive. Ses deux poings constamment placés devant son visage enseignantes, Curran n attaqua plus que rarement et, dans ces conditions, il fut très difficile à Kid Mac Coy de venir à bout du colosse qu'il avait devant lui.
Au 20° round, le combat était arrêté et l'arbitre, M. Tom Hunt, proclama Kid Mac Coy vainqueur aux points. La salle entière fit une chaleureuse ovation à l'excellent poids moyen américain, qui se montra réellement supérieur.
Voici, d'ailleurs, les détails des rounds:
1° round. -- Dès le signal, Curran se précipite sur Kid, qu'il bouscule avec tant d'ardeur, que celui-ci tombe. Il se relève à la 7° seconde et place un direct avant le « aims », Curran donne l'impression d être supérieur.
2° round. -- Kid martelle á toute vitesse le visage de Curran, qui commence déjà à saigner. Curran est projeté dans les cordes, mais se relève aussitôt, pour se précipiter sur Kid, qui est à son tour projeté à terre avec violence. Supériorité de Kid Mc Coy.
3° round. -- Attaques vives des deux côtés. Kid frappe en plein visage par des directs vigoureux. Les coups de Curran, au contraire, manquent leur but et c'est sur le cou ou sur les bras que Kid encaisse. Curran est de nouveau projeté à terre par bousculade; Kid l'imite bientôt.
4° round. -- Kid se montre, ici, incontestablement supérieur. Ses coups portent de mieux en mieux, mais le colosse anglais encaisse sans broncher.
5° round. -- C'est la répétition du précédent. Kid, avec une vigueur et une sûreté exceptionnelles, martelle la poitrine et le visage de son adversaire, qui ne bronche toujours pas, solidement campé sur ses deux james d'hercule. Le sang coule abondamment chez Curran, tandis que Kid n'a pas encore la moindre égratignure.
6° round. -- Les efforts de Kid ne donnent aucun résultat, le champion américain semble se reposer durant ce round. Sur une bousculade de Curran il se laisse crouler et attend le 9° coup pour se relever.
7° round. -- Curran attaque furieusement et frappe à tort et à travers. Il s'écroule dans le vide, sur une esquive de Kid. Puis, c'est au tour de celui-ci à aller au plancher après une bousculade. Kid se relève et place un direct du gauche, qui touche sérieusement à l'œil droit. Supériorité de Kid.
8° round. -- Aucun des deux adversaires ne prend un avantage marqué. Défensive des deux côtés.
9° round. -- Curran cogne dur, mais ses coups ne semblent pas ébranler outre mesure le « mur de pierre » représenté par Kid Mac Coy.
10° round. -- Kid encaisse encore et ne semble vouloir ni se défendre, ni riposter. Il démontre, ainsi, que, quoiqu'il fasse, Curran « ne l'aura pas ».
11° round. -- Curran attaque encore, mais cette fois, Kid répond. Lutte vive. Kid est projeté à terre, juste à côté d'un verre plein, qu'il ingurgite pendant que l'arbitre compte jusqu'à huit ! Kid, satisfait, se relève et place quelques directs très applaudis.
12° round. -- Jeu égal de part et d'autre. Curran cogne dur, mais cela n'ébranle pas le passible Kid, qui se contente de frapper moins souvent, mais plus sûrement.
13° round. -- Curran adopte définitivement son système de défense; ses deux poings devant son visage tuméfié, il tâche de le préserver du coup final que Kid semble vouloir donner. Kid attaque constamment et tourne comme un écureuil autour du mastodonte anglais. Malgré sa défensive, Curran n'esquive pas quelques bons directs a la poitrine et au front.
14° round. -- Kid encaisse un direct savamment placé par Curran au début du round. Mais c'est tout. Curran reprend sa prudente défensive.
15° round. -- Rien d'intéressant. Jeu égal de part et d'autre. Curran ne tient pas à se découvrir, et Kid, méfiant, ne s'élance sur lui que prudemment.
16° round. -- Supériorité de Kid, qui place quelques bons directs, encaissés par Curran, sans broncher. Kid est d'une fraîcheur remarquable, malgré son jeu d'attaque, qui devrait l'épuiser. Curran reprend et donne l'impression très nette qu'il ne sene pas tombé.
17° round. -- Curran frappe Kid sur la tète. Celui-ci riposte par un directe du gauche. Supériorité de Kid.
18° round. -- Sur une charge de Curran. Kid s'écroule, mais se relève à la neuvième seconde, salué par les hourrahs de la salle entière.
19° round. -- Supériorité de Kid. Un direct du gauche -- le fameux gauche qui travaille terriblement -- est encore encaissé par Curran malgré sa défensive.
20° round. -- Curran se montre prudent et ne se découvre pas. Kid attaque furieusement, mais rien ne réussit. Au signal de la fin. Kid allait placer un dernier direct que l'arbitre arrête.
Kid Mac Coy est acclamé vainqueur aux points. Curran fait aussitôt annoncer qu'il lance un défi à son vainqueur pour un match-revanche, en expliquant qu'il a été battu non par un adversaire meilleur, mais mieux préparé, tandis que lui était encore fatigué par le long voyage qu'il venait d'accomplir.
Les Matches Préliminaires
Les Grands Matchs de Boxe à Nice
--------
Kid Mac Coy (Américain)
----BAT AUX POINTS----
P. O. Curran (Anglais)
--------
La vaste el superbe salle du Palais de la Jetée-Promenade regorgeait, hier soir, d'une foule élégante et choisie, venue là pour assister au grand combat de boxe anglaise entre le réputé champion américain Kid Mac Coy et le champion anglais P. O. Curran.
Le premier, comme on le sait, est un athlète de tout premier ordre. Ex-champion d'Europe des poids moyens, Kid Mac Coy avait abandonné le ring où il obtenait, il y a quelques années, de magnifiques succès. Puis, le sympathique Kid se remettait à l'entrainement et réussissait, dernièrement, à s'adjuger deux superbes victoires, notamment, sur le terrible nègre Gunther.
Son match d'hier soir contre le poids lourd Curran est une nouvelle et éclatante victoire.
Nous avons dit qu'une assistance choisie s'était rendue, hier soir, au Palais de la Jetée. Toute la colonie anglaise et américaine était là, venue pour encourager son champion respectif.
Nous citerons, entr'autres, M. Balfour, ex-ministre anglais, entouré des membres de l'aristocratie anglaise. Au hasard du crayon, nous avons note également la présence de: MM, le comic Amédéo Galatti di Rielia, Moitessier, Maubert, Louis Willaume, Weber, M. et Mme Duret, M. et Mme Paoli, etc., etc.
Avant le grand match, nous avons assisté à trois rencontres d'amateurs, qui ne furent certainement, pas des plus passionnantes: les deux premiers présentèrent, toutefois, un joli intérêt.
Le match Kid Mac Coy-Curran, commencé à 11 h ½, ne se termina qu'â 1 heure du matin, après un combat des plus vifs en 20 rounds de 3 minutes.
Curran, beaucoup plus lourd que son adversaire, paraissait, de prime abord, devoir emporter facilement la victoire, mais dès le second round, le merveilleux Kid prenait le meilleur, et jusqu'à la fin, il fit mouture d'une réelle supériorité.
Au début, Curran attaqua avec une vigueur extraordinaire et réussit à placer quelques bons coups que Mac Coy encaissait le sourire sur les lèvres. Tous les efforts du colosse anglais restèrent vains dans les dix premiers rounds: au contraire, les coups de Mac Coy portés avec précision et vigueur, ne tardèrent pas à marquer sérieusement au visage. Les deux arcades sourcilières ouvertes, la face tuméfiée, le nez écorché, Curran fit bientôt piteuse mine et ses attaques vigoureuses du début firent place à une prudente défensive. Mac Coy encaissa avec aisance tout ce que son défenseur réussissait à lui décocher, tandis qu'il plaçait à qui mieux mieux des directs et des upercuts.
Pendant les dix derniers rounds, Curran se tint sur la défensive. Ses deux poings constamment placés devant son visage enseignantes, Curran n attaqua plus que rarement et, dans ces conditions, il fut très difficile à Kid Mac Coy de venir à bout du colosse qu'il avait devant lui.
Au 20° round, le combat était arrêté et l'arbitre, M. Tom Hunt, proclama Kid Mac Coy vainqueur aux points. La salle entière fit une chaleureuse ovation à l'excellent poids moyen américain, qui se montra réellement supérieur.
Voici, d'ailleurs, les détails des rounds:
1° round. -- Dès le signal, Curran se précipite sur Kid, qu'il bouscule avec tant d'ardeur, que celui-ci tombe. Il se relève à la 7° seconde et place un direct avant le « aims », Curran donne l'impression d être supérieur.
2° round. -- Kid martelle á toute vitesse le visage de Curran, qui commence déjà à saigner. Curran est projeté dans les cordes, mais se relève aussitôt, pour se précipiter sur Kid, qui est à son tour projeté à terre avec violence. Supériorité de Kid Mc Coy.
3° round. -- Attaques vives des deux côtés. Kid frappe en plein visage par des directs vigoureux. Les coups de Curran, au contraire, manquent leur but et c'est sur le cou ou sur les bras que Kid encaisse. Curran est de nouveau projeté à terre par bousculade; Kid l'imite bientôt.
4° round. -- Kid se montre, ici, incontestablement supérieur. Ses coups portent de mieux en mieux, mais le colosse anglais encaisse sans broncher.
5° round. -- C'est la répétition du précédent. Kid, avec une vigueur et une sûreté exceptionnelles, martelle la poitrine et le visage de son adversaire, qui ne bronche toujours pas, solidement campé sur ses deux james d'hercule. Le sang coule abondamment chez Curran, tandis que Kid n'a pas encore la moindre égratignure.
6° round. -- Les efforts de Kid ne donnent aucun résultat, le champion américain semble se reposer durant ce round. Sur une bousculade de Curran il se laisse crouler et attend le 9° coup pour se relever.
7° round. -- Curran attaque furieusement et frappe à tort et à travers. Il s'écroule dans le vide, sur une esquive de Kid. Puis, c'est au tour de celui-ci à aller au plancher après une bousculade. Kid se relève et place un direct du gauche, qui touche sérieusement à l'œil droit. Supériorité de Kid.
8° round. -- Aucun des deux adversaires ne prend un avantage marqué. Défensive des deux côtés.
9° round. -- Curran cogne dur, mais ses coups ne semblent pas ébranler outre mesure le « mur de pierre » représenté par Kid Mac Coy.
10° round. -- Kid encaisse encore et ne semble vouloir ni se défendre, ni riposter. Il démontre, ainsi, que, quoiqu'il fasse, Curran « ne l'aura pas ».
11° round. -- Curran attaque encore, mais cette fois, Kid répond. Lutte vive. Kid est projeté à terre, juste à côté d'un verre plein, qu'il ingurgite pendant que l'arbitre compte jusqu'à huit ! Kid, satisfait, se relève et place quelques directs très applaudis.
12° round. -- Jeu égal de part et d'autre. Curran cogne dur, mais cela n'ébranle pas le passible Kid, qui se contente de frapper moins souvent, mais plus sûrement.
13° round. -- Curran adopte définitivement son système de défense; ses deux poings devant son visage tuméfié, il tâche de le préserver du coup final que Kid semble vouloir donner. Kid attaque constamment et tourne comme un écureuil autour du mastodonte anglais. Malgré sa défensive, Curran n'esquive pas quelques bons directs a la poitrine et au front.
14° round. -- Kid encaisse un direct savamment placé par Curran au début du round. Mais c'est tout. Curran reprend sa prudente défensive.
15° round. -- Rien d'intéressant. Jeu égal de part et d'autre. Curran ne tient pas à se découvrir, et Kid, méfiant, ne s'élance sur lui que prudemment.
16° round. -- Supériorité de Kid, qui place quelques bons directs, encaissés par Curran, sans broncher. Kid est d'une fraîcheur remarquable, malgré son jeu d'attaque, qui devrait l'épuiser. Curran reprend et donne l'impression très nette qu'il ne sene pas tombé.
17° round. -- Curran frappe Kid sur la tète. Celui-ci riposte par un directe du gauche. Supériorité de Kid.
18° round. -- Sur une charge de Curran. Kid s'écroule, mais se relève à la neuvième seconde, salué par les hourrahs de la salle entière.
19° round. -- Supériorité de Kid. Un direct du gauche -- le fameux gauche qui travaille terriblement -- est encore encaissé par Curran malgré sa défensive.
20° round. -- Curran se montre prudent et ne se découvre pas. Kid attaque furieusement, mais rien ne réussit. Au signal de la fin. Kid allait placer un dernier direct que l'arbitre arrête.
Kid Mac Coy est acclamé vainqueur aux points. Curran fait aussitôt annoncer qu'il lance un défi à son vainqueur pour un match-revanche, en expliquant qu'il a été battu non par un adversaire meilleur, mais mieux préparé, tandis que lui était encore fatigué par le long voyage qu'il venait d'accomplir.
Les Matches Préliminaires
-
Controversial
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 9172
- Joined: 13 Jul 2002, 18:29
Re: Jimmy Wilde and his early opponents
1st round. - As soon as the signal, Curran rushes on Kid, that he jostles with so much eagerness, that this one falls. He gets up at the 7 ° second and places a direct before the "aims", Curran gives the impression of being superior.
2nd round. - Kid is pounding Curran's face, which is already bleeding. Curran is thrown into the ropes, but gets up immediately, rushing to Kid, who is in turn thrown to the ground with violence. Superiority of Kid Mc Coy.
3rd round. - Sharp attacks on both sides. Kid strikes in the face by vigorous direct. Curran's shots, on the contrary, miss their goal and it's on the neck or on the arms that Kid collects. Curran is thrown to the ground again by jostling; Kid imitates him soon.
4th round. - Kid is here, undeniably superior. His blows are getting better and better, but the English colossus cash without flinching.
5th round. - It's the repetition of the previous one. Kid, with exceptional vigor and safety, hammers the chest and the face of his adversary, who still does not flinch, solidly encamped on his two James of Hercules. The blood flows abundantly in Curran, while Kid does not have any scratches yet.
6th round. - Kid's efforts yield no results, the American champion seems to rest during this round. On a scramble of Curran he lets himself crumble and waits the 9th shot to get up.
7th round. - Curran attacks furiously and strikes right and wrong. He collapses into the void, on a dodge of Kid. Then, it is the turn of this one to go to the floor after a jostling. Kid gets up and places a live left, which seriously affects the right eye. Kid's superiority.
8th round. - Neither opponent takes a clear advantage. Defensive on both sides.
9th round. - Curran knocks hard, but his blows do not seem to shake the "stone wall" represented by Kid Mac Coy.
10th round. - Kid still cash and does not seem to want to defend or fight back. He demonstrates that, whatever he does, Curran "will not have it".
11th round. - Curran is still attacking, but this time, Kid responds. Live fight. Kid is thrown to the ground, right next to a full glass, which he swallows while the referee counts to eight! Kid, satisfied, gets up and places a few very applauded direct.
12th round. - Equal play on both sides. Curran bangs hard, but that does not shake the puny Kid, who is content to hit less often, but more surely.
13th round. - Curran definitely adopts its defense system; his two fists in front of his swollen face, he tries to preserve it from the final blow that Kid seems to want to give. Kid constantly attacks and turns like a squirrel around the English juggernaut. Despite his defense, Curran does not dodge some good direct to the chest and forehead.
14th round. - Kid cashes a direct cleverly placed by Curran at the beginning of the round. But that's all. Curran resumes his cautious defense.
15th round. -- Nothing interesting. Equal play on both sides. Curran does not want to discover himself, and Kid, wary, only rushes at him cautiously.
16th round. - Superiority of Kid, who places some good direct, cashed by Curran, without flinching. Kid is remarkably cool, despite his attacking game, which should exhaust him. Curran resumes and gives the very clear impression that he did not fall.
17th round. - Curran hits Kid on the head. It retaliates with a direct left. Kid's superiority.
18th round. - On a load of Curran. Kid collapses, but gets up in the ninth second, greeted by the hurrahs of the whole room.
19th round. - Kid's superiority. A direct from the left - the famous left who works terribly - is still cashed by Curran despite his defense.
20 ° round. - Curran is cautious and can not be discovered. Kid attacks furiously, but nothing succeeds. At the end signal. Kid was going to put one last straight that the referee stopped.
2nd round. - Kid is pounding Curran's face, which is already bleeding. Curran is thrown into the ropes, but gets up immediately, rushing to Kid, who is in turn thrown to the ground with violence. Superiority of Kid Mc Coy.
3rd round. - Sharp attacks on both sides. Kid strikes in the face by vigorous direct. Curran's shots, on the contrary, miss their goal and it's on the neck or on the arms that Kid collects. Curran is thrown to the ground again by jostling; Kid imitates him soon.
4th round. - Kid is here, undeniably superior. His blows are getting better and better, but the English colossus cash without flinching.
5th round. - It's the repetition of the previous one. Kid, with exceptional vigor and safety, hammers the chest and the face of his adversary, who still does not flinch, solidly encamped on his two James of Hercules. The blood flows abundantly in Curran, while Kid does not have any scratches yet.
6th round. - Kid's efforts yield no results, the American champion seems to rest during this round. On a scramble of Curran he lets himself crumble and waits the 9th shot to get up.
7th round. - Curran attacks furiously and strikes right and wrong. He collapses into the void, on a dodge of Kid. Then, it is the turn of this one to go to the floor after a jostling. Kid gets up and places a live left, which seriously affects the right eye. Kid's superiority.
8th round. - Neither opponent takes a clear advantage. Defensive on both sides.
9th round. - Curran knocks hard, but his blows do not seem to shake the "stone wall" represented by Kid Mac Coy.
10th round. - Kid still cash and does not seem to want to defend or fight back. He demonstrates that, whatever he does, Curran "will not have it".
11th round. - Curran is still attacking, but this time, Kid responds. Live fight. Kid is thrown to the ground, right next to a full glass, which he swallows while the referee counts to eight! Kid, satisfied, gets up and places a few very applauded direct.
12th round. - Equal play on both sides. Curran bangs hard, but that does not shake the puny Kid, who is content to hit less often, but more surely.
13th round. - Curran definitely adopts its defense system; his two fists in front of his swollen face, he tries to preserve it from the final blow that Kid seems to want to give. Kid constantly attacks and turns like a squirrel around the English juggernaut. Despite his defense, Curran does not dodge some good direct to the chest and forehead.
14th round. - Kid cashes a direct cleverly placed by Curran at the beginning of the round. But that's all. Curran resumes his cautious defense.
15th round. -- Nothing interesting. Equal play on both sides. Curran does not want to discover himself, and Kid, wary, only rushes at him cautiously.
16th round. - Superiority of Kid, who places some good direct, cashed by Curran, without flinching. Kid is remarkably cool, despite his attacking game, which should exhaust him. Curran resumes and gives the very clear impression that he did not fall.
17th round. - Curran hits Kid on the head. It retaliates with a direct left. Kid's superiority.
18th round. - On a load of Curran. Kid collapses, but gets up in the ninth second, greeted by the hurrahs of the whole room.
19th round. - Kid's superiority. A direct from the left - the famous left who works terribly - is still cashed by Curran despite his defense.
20 ° round. - Curran is cautious and can not be discovered. Kid attacks furiously, but nothing succeeds. At the end signal. Kid was going to put one last straight that the referee stopped.
Re: Jimmy Wilde and his early opponents
It would be nice to see some reports describing Wilde's style (skills, moves typical for him, etc) in detail, to get a better idea of how he was so successful.prewarboxing wrote: ↑16 May 2018, 06:21We seem to have gone a bit off topic from Jimmy Wilde and his early opponents!
Re: Jimmy Wilde and his early opponents
Posted this a long time ago on another forum, but I think it's worth a repost.
'The Story of Boxing', by Trevor C. Wignall, 1923.
Chapter XVII, pages 287-290.
Were it not for the fact that every author is expected to wind up his book with whatever conclusions he may have formed, I doubt whether I would have the courage to follow precedent. I have been watching and reporting boxing--studying it, too--for twenty-five years, during which time I have seen the majority of the world's best; but I do not claim to be either an inspired critic or an infallible judge. I am so conscious of my limitations, indeed, that it is with considerable diffidence I set down here some of the impressions I have gained since I witnessed my first fight. If, therefore, there is a suspicion of egotism--and I devoutly hope there is not--I ask to be pardoned.
Mr. Bettinson has selected Jimmy Wilde as one of the greatest boxers of all time. Undoubtedly he is right. I am even prompted to say that he is the greatest. Consider his handicaps. He weighs less than a schoolboy, he is as thin as a lath, as frail as a reed, as weakly-looking as an invalid. His strength does not appear to be sufficient to dent a hole in a pat of butter--yet I have seen him crumple bigger men with punches that were like the kicks of a mule.
Wilde is the very antithesis of the boxer of fiction. In appearance he more resembles an anaemic student than a fighter. He is pale and painfully slender his arms and legs are hardly thicker than pipe-stems his body is that of a child--one would think, simply by glancing at him, that a really strong breeze would carry him off his feet. Yet this curious little man with the high-pitched voice and the eyes of a dreamer has knocked flat something like two hundred opponents. Before he became famous--this was when he was working as a miner in the Rhondda Valley--it was his daily habit to engage in six or eight contests after leaving the pit.
His first sparring partner was his wife. Mothers, as will have been gathered from earlier chapters, have had much to do with the education of their sons as fighters, but Mrs. James Wilde, so far as I know, is the only lady who helped to transform her husband from a collier into a world's boxing champion.
"We used to spar in the bedroom or in the kitchen," Wilde said to me on one occasion. "She'd lead at me, and I'd dodge the blow."
"But did you ever hit back?" I asked.
"Oh, no," replied Wilde, "but even if I had she'd have been nimble enough to get out of the way. She knows as much about boxing as I do."
I happened to be present at Wilde's London debut. It was the kind of noteworthy occasion that leaves a lasting memory. A little while before he climbed into the ring (to be laughed at by a crowd who were later petrified with amazement) I was introduced to him by Mr. Teddy Lewis, his manager. I can see him now--a shy, miniature man, twirling a cheap cane, and attired in a suit of rusty black. The biggest thing about him was his cloth cap. I remember I chuckled when Mr. Lewis, with all the gestures and all the enthusiasm and all the earnestness of the Welshman, told me that Wilde was a world-beater in embryo. The statement, it seemed to me, would have carried more weight if the tiny hewer of coal had not been on view. "But he has been knocking them out at the rate of three and four a day down in the Valley," insisted Mr. Lewis. "There's no one left for us in Wales, and that's why we have come to London." Wilde's sole contribution to the conversation, from what I can recollect of it, was an occasional "Ai, indeed," or "there 'u are." His Welsh accent is still very pronounced, but it could be cut with a knife that day when I talked with him in a newspaper office near Fleet Street.
The name of his opponent has long since left my memory, but I do know Wilde defeated him in almost quicker time than it takes to tell. His extraordinary gifts, however, were not recognized until he was given a match at the National Sporting Club with a Frenchman called Husson. Wilde knocked him out in the sixth round, and his display was such as to induce many of the newspaper writers--myself included--to go into hysterics. From that evening (March 30, 1914) Wilde has had the fly-weight field all to himself. (In May of this year Wilde lost his world's championship to Pancho Villa, the Filipino. The fight took place in New York, and Wilde was knocked out in the seventh round.) He has been beaten, of course, but usually by men to whom he was giving away pounds of weight. He was badly defeated by Herman, the American, but that was a match that should not have been made. It is common knowledge now that Wilde would not have taken the ring had it not been pointed out to him that among the audience were members of the Royal Family. He fought for "the good of the game," as his action has been termed but he was very ill-advised. The evening, to the overwhelming majority of the spectators, was one of crushing sadness.
Wilde's principal asset is his unorthodoxy. He has torn to pieces every textbook ever written. There isn't a principle that he hasn't stamped on deliberately and with malice aforethought. He has no guard, no defence, yet he is--or was, for he has not boxed for two years--as difficult to hit as a moving shadow. Watch him when an opponent is striving to be aggressive, and you will see him shuffle backwards or sideways inches at a time, and you will also observe--probably to your consternation--that punches are grazing his nose or his jaw. He does not move his head so much as slightly jerk it a fraction to the left, a fraction to the right, or a fraction forward. When he performs the latter movement he resembles a bird, pecking. His sense of distance is uncanny. He can stand within range of a blow when it is started, and then--hey, presto ! a dart, a jerk, and the delivery has skimmed his face. There is no man on earth who can escape punishment with such nicety of judgment.
Now glance at him as he is preparing to finish a fight. He is a little higher on his toes, he is better poised, his body is almost imperceptibly executing a wave-like motion. His gloves are on his hips--there is no semblance of a guard--his knees are slightly bent, his left foot is turned in, pigeon fashion, while it is a million to one that his eyes are anywhere except on the spot he has made up his mind to hit. He usually feints before he lands his final blow. He does something which looks crude and which tempts his antagonist to lead--and it is all over from that moment. There is the flash of something that moves with the rapidity of a chameleon's tongue, and which is not much more substantial, and all that remains is for the time-keeper to intone the passing seconds. For a man of his weight and size, Wilde has the heaviest punch in the world. Where he stows away all the power he puts into it has never been explained.
But he is not a conscious boxer. Practically everything he does is subconscious. When he throws back his head or steps away from danger he is simply responding to some instinct that has given him a warning signal. But for this hidden quality he would not have climbed to such renown as a boxer. There are men in England and in America equally good in attack, but what they lack is Wilde's phenomenal knowledge of what is about to happen. He is like a chess player he can visualize the thing that is bound to occur; he can look ahead; he can see a move before it is properly created. Wilde is a master because he is aided by a wonderful attribute that no other boxer possesses. There is a compartment in his brain where nestles the instinct that guides his every action, that tells him what to do, that prompts and instructs him throughout a contest. If this subconscious sense--this miracle--ever leaves him, his day will be done. He will become an average fighter. Of that I am absolutely convinced.
'The Story of Boxing', by Trevor C. Wignall, 1923.
Chapter XVII, pages 287-290.
Were it not for the fact that every author is expected to wind up his book with whatever conclusions he may have formed, I doubt whether I would have the courage to follow precedent. I have been watching and reporting boxing--studying it, too--for twenty-five years, during which time I have seen the majority of the world's best; but I do not claim to be either an inspired critic or an infallible judge. I am so conscious of my limitations, indeed, that it is with considerable diffidence I set down here some of the impressions I have gained since I witnessed my first fight. If, therefore, there is a suspicion of egotism--and I devoutly hope there is not--I ask to be pardoned.
Mr. Bettinson has selected Jimmy Wilde as one of the greatest boxers of all time. Undoubtedly he is right. I am even prompted to say that he is the greatest. Consider his handicaps. He weighs less than a schoolboy, he is as thin as a lath, as frail as a reed, as weakly-looking as an invalid. His strength does not appear to be sufficient to dent a hole in a pat of butter--yet I have seen him crumple bigger men with punches that were like the kicks of a mule.
Wilde is the very antithesis of the boxer of fiction. In appearance he more resembles an anaemic student than a fighter. He is pale and painfully slender his arms and legs are hardly thicker than pipe-stems his body is that of a child--one would think, simply by glancing at him, that a really strong breeze would carry him off his feet. Yet this curious little man with the high-pitched voice and the eyes of a dreamer has knocked flat something like two hundred opponents. Before he became famous--this was when he was working as a miner in the Rhondda Valley--it was his daily habit to engage in six or eight contests after leaving the pit.
His first sparring partner was his wife. Mothers, as will have been gathered from earlier chapters, have had much to do with the education of their sons as fighters, but Mrs. James Wilde, so far as I know, is the only lady who helped to transform her husband from a collier into a world's boxing champion.
"We used to spar in the bedroom or in the kitchen," Wilde said to me on one occasion. "She'd lead at me, and I'd dodge the blow."
"But did you ever hit back?" I asked.
"Oh, no," replied Wilde, "but even if I had she'd have been nimble enough to get out of the way. She knows as much about boxing as I do."
I happened to be present at Wilde's London debut. It was the kind of noteworthy occasion that leaves a lasting memory. A little while before he climbed into the ring (to be laughed at by a crowd who were later petrified with amazement) I was introduced to him by Mr. Teddy Lewis, his manager. I can see him now--a shy, miniature man, twirling a cheap cane, and attired in a suit of rusty black. The biggest thing about him was his cloth cap. I remember I chuckled when Mr. Lewis, with all the gestures and all the enthusiasm and all the earnestness of the Welshman, told me that Wilde was a world-beater in embryo. The statement, it seemed to me, would have carried more weight if the tiny hewer of coal had not been on view. "But he has been knocking them out at the rate of three and four a day down in the Valley," insisted Mr. Lewis. "There's no one left for us in Wales, and that's why we have come to London." Wilde's sole contribution to the conversation, from what I can recollect of it, was an occasional "Ai, indeed," or "there 'u are." His Welsh accent is still very pronounced, but it could be cut with a knife that day when I talked with him in a newspaper office near Fleet Street.
The name of his opponent has long since left my memory, but I do know Wilde defeated him in almost quicker time than it takes to tell. His extraordinary gifts, however, were not recognized until he was given a match at the National Sporting Club with a Frenchman called Husson. Wilde knocked him out in the sixth round, and his display was such as to induce many of the newspaper writers--myself included--to go into hysterics. From that evening (March 30, 1914) Wilde has had the fly-weight field all to himself. (In May of this year Wilde lost his world's championship to Pancho Villa, the Filipino. The fight took place in New York, and Wilde was knocked out in the seventh round.) He has been beaten, of course, but usually by men to whom he was giving away pounds of weight. He was badly defeated by Herman, the American, but that was a match that should not have been made. It is common knowledge now that Wilde would not have taken the ring had it not been pointed out to him that among the audience were members of the Royal Family. He fought for "the good of the game," as his action has been termed but he was very ill-advised. The evening, to the overwhelming majority of the spectators, was one of crushing sadness.
Wilde's principal asset is his unorthodoxy. He has torn to pieces every textbook ever written. There isn't a principle that he hasn't stamped on deliberately and with malice aforethought. He has no guard, no defence, yet he is--or was, for he has not boxed for two years--as difficult to hit as a moving shadow. Watch him when an opponent is striving to be aggressive, and you will see him shuffle backwards or sideways inches at a time, and you will also observe--probably to your consternation--that punches are grazing his nose or his jaw. He does not move his head so much as slightly jerk it a fraction to the left, a fraction to the right, or a fraction forward. When he performs the latter movement he resembles a bird, pecking. His sense of distance is uncanny. He can stand within range of a blow when it is started, and then--hey, presto ! a dart, a jerk, and the delivery has skimmed his face. There is no man on earth who can escape punishment with such nicety of judgment.
Now glance at him as he is preparing to finish a fight. He is a little higher on his toes, he is better poised, his body is almost imperceptibly executing a wave-like motion. His gloves are on his hips--there is no semblance of a guard--his knees are slightly bent, his left foot is turned in, pigeon fashion, while it is a million to one that his eyes are anywhere except on the spot he has made up his mind to hit. He usually feints before he lands his final blow. He does something which looks crude and which tempts his antagonist to lead--and it is all over from that moment. There is the flash of something that moves with the rapidity of a chameleon's tongue, and which is not much more substantial, and all that remains is for the time-keeper to intone the passing seconds. For a man of his weight and size, Wilde has the heaviest punch in the world. Where he stows away all the power he puts into it has never been explained.
But he is not a conscious boxer. Practically everything he does is subconscious. When he throws back his head or steps away from danger he is simply responding to some instinct that has given him a warning signal. But for this hidden quality he would not have climbed to such renown as a boxer. There are men in England and in America equally good in attack, but what they lack is Wilde's phenomenal knowledge of what is about to happen. He is like a chess player he can visualize the thing that is bound to occur; he can look ahead; he can see a move before it is properly created. Wilde is a master because he is aided by a wonderful attribute that no other boxer possesses. There is a compartment in his brain where nestles the instinct that guides his every action, that tells him what to do, that prompts and instructs him throughout a contest. If this subconscious sense--this miracle--ever leaves him, his day will be done. He will become an average fighter. Of that I am absolutely convinced.
Re: Jimmy Wilde and his early opponents
Yeah that all looks good on paper, but I gotta level with ya.....
Kalan said this guy was a Palooka.
Now...the research and info you have presented here looks sound, the premise makes sense, the sources are impeccable, and the attention to detail checks out. The thought processes add up, and it checks out against other researched sources.
But Kalan said this guy is a Palooka.
And....what's more, he said it really LOUD....and let's not forget, he repeated himself.....a lot...on this matter.
I'm guessin' a lot of us have got a lotta thinkin' ta do before we can make up our minds, as to just who to believe here.
Cause after all.......when all is said and done.......Kalan said this guy was a Palooka.
And IF what your sayin here has merit.......well that's going to call into question whether K was totally on the up and up. And if in fact, he was a good source of information on this subject.
And IF (heaven help us all) it turns out he's not a good source on this subject.....what else are we to assume?
Kalan said this guy was a Palooka.
Now...the research and info you have presented here looks sound, the premise makes sense, the sources are impeccable, and the attention to detail checks out. The thought processes add up, and it checks out against other researched sources.
But Kalan said this guy is a Palooka.
And....what's more, he said it really LOUD....and let's not forget, he repeated himself.....a lot...on this matter.
I'm guessin' a lot of us have got a lotta thinkin' ta do before we can make up our minds, as to just who to believe here.
Cause after all.......when all is said and done.......Kalan said this guy was a Palooka.
And IF what your sayin here has merit.......well that's going to call into question whether K was totally on the up and up. And if in fact, he was a good source of information on this subject.
And IF (heaven help us all) it turns out he's not a good source on this subject.....what else are we to assume?
Re: Jimmy Wilde and his early opponents
......and by the way....VERY NICE READ.
-
prewarboxing
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 641
- Joined: 22 Jul 2007, 02:58
Re: Jimmy Wilde and his early opponents
This is something I wrote about ten years ago on Wilde. Thought it might be worth putting up here:
Whilst perusing the recent biography on Jimmy Wilde produced by Gareth Harris I started to think about just how phenomenal this little man was. It is easy now to think of him as just another flyweight, one of many British flyweights who have won the World title. Pople ask was he better than Benny Lynch ? Would he have beaten Jackie Paterson or Walter McGowan ? Both questions miss the point about Wilde. What made him truly remarkable was the fact that although he had to fight in the flyweight class, as that was the lowest weight class in his day, by todays standards he wasn’t a flyweight at all. In fact his natural fighting weight (around 7st 2lbs) was considerably below the current Light-Flyweight level and he would even be conceding weight to some of today’s Straw-weights, yet he spent a large part of his career knocking out Bantamweights and Featherweights.
Wilde was notoriously reticent about revealing his weight for his contests and it was frequently kept secret. When he beat Johnny Rosner(USA) in 1916 he weighed around 7st 2lbs. He knocked out future British Bantamweight Champion Tommy Noble in 1916 when conceding between 18lbs and 20lbs. Noble was no mug either, he toured the United States extensively in the 1920s meeting all of the top men and rarely losing within the distance. Against future World Bantamweight Champion Joe Lynch(USA) in 1919 Wilde took a close verdict when fighting with a 14lbs disadvantage. Joe Symonds outweighed Wilde by 15lbs when they contested the British Flyweight Title in 1916 but was stopped in 12 rounds. For me, though, one of his most remarkable feats was to give featherweight Joe Conn around 2 stone and 4 inches in height in 1918 and to comprehensively out-box him before stopping him in the 12th.
Conn was never the British Featherweight Champion although in his very next contest he met Tancy Lee(Paisley) for the title and lasted until the 17th round. Before the Wilde contest he had won 12 on the trot and amongst these victims were three men who at one time held a British title, Sid Smith, Tommy Noble and Curley Walker. He had also beaten Welsh feathers Danny Morgan(Tirphil) and Idris Jones(Ammanford) inside the distance and both of these men were of the highest order.
The idea of matching Jimmy Wilde with Joe Conn came from promoter Jack Callaghan. The show was held at Stamford Bridge, the home of Chelsea football club in London’s west end. It was not a natural match and I suspect that it was carefully contrived to allow Wilde to demonstrate to a large London audience just how versatile he was in being able to beat a man 30% heavier than he was. Conn was a dangerous protagonist but ‘pound for pound’ not in Wilde’s class.
Wilde prepared for the contest in training quarters at Camberley, Surrey and Conn trained a short distance away at Egham. Both were in the peak of condition when they entered the ring at 4 o’clock on that Saturday afternoon nearly 90 years ago. Conn was described by ‘Mirror of Life’ reporter J. Frank Bradley as having skin with a ‘peculiar yellowish tinge’ whilst Wilde’s was ‘a healthy looking pink’. The promoter had allowed wounded ex-Servicemen into the show for free and between 3,000 and 5,000 of them had taken him up on his offer. The soldiers swelled the crowd to around 10,000. Already 4 inches the shorter Wilde chose to fight in a crouch whilst Conn stood bolt upright. The height difference to many of the observers would have seemed to be a foot or more and the difference in weight was obvious for all to see. The accompanying photographs show this very clearly.
Wilde assumed the attack immediately and Conn was forced onto the retreat where he tried to defend himself with the use of the long left. In the third round Conn attacked and yet Wilde still took the honours with evasive tactics that caused most of Conn’s attacking blows to miss the target. The contest proceeded with first one, and then the other mounting an attack and Conn connected on a number of occasions with some quite telling blows. By round seven Wilde was staring to look distressed and Conn’s heavier blows were starting to make a difference. The 8th was a bad round for Jimmy and his eye was cut in the 9th. This general pattern continued into the 10th but then from nowhere Wilde scored with a hard right and Conn fell to the canvas ‘like a stricken ox’. He got up at nine but was put down a further four times before the round ended. With Conn at his mercy Wilde hit him at will during the 11th and 12th rounds and after being down a further seven times the referee finally stepped in and rescued him.
This contest showed just how Wilde could turn a contest completely around with the severity of his punching. He had Conn down eleven times in all and although he failed to put him down for the count this is probably because of Conn’s 2 stone advantage in weight. Although he got up every time, he was beaten senseless when the contest ended, his extra weight proving to be no advantage to him whatsoever.
Joe Conn ended his career in 1925 with a 68-31-6 record from 106 contests.
Wilde’s career ended following losses to Pete Herman (in 1921), to whom he conceded over a stone, and finally to Pancho Villa for the World Flyweight title (in 1923).
Miles Templeton.
Whilst perusing the recent biography on Jimmy Wilde produced by Gareth Harris I started to think about just how phenomenal this little man was. It is easy now to think of him as just another flyweight, one of many British flyweights who have won the World title. Pople ask was he better than Benny Lynch ? Would he have beaten Jackie Paterson or Walter McGowan ? Both questions miss the point about Wilde. What made him truly remarkable was the fact that although he had to fight in the flyweight class, as that was the lowest weight class in his day, by todays standards he wasn’t a flyweight at all. In fact his natural fighting weight (around 7st 2lbs) was considerably below the current Light-Flyweight level and he would even be conceding weight to some of today’s Straw-weights, yet he spent a large part of his career knocking out Bantamweights and Featherweights.
Wilde was notoriously reticent about revealing his weight for his contests and it was frequently kept secret. When he beat Johnny Rosner(USA) in 1916 he weighed around 7st 2lbs. He knocked out future British Bantamweight Champion Tommy Noble in 1916 when conceding between 18lbs and 20lbs. Noble was no mug either, he toured the United States extensively in the 1920s meeting all of the top men and rarely losing within the distance. Against future World Bantamweight Champion Joe Lynch(USA) in 1919 Wilde took a close verdict when fighting with a 14lbs disadvantage. Joe Symonds outweighed Wilde by 15lbs when they contested the British Flyweight Title in 1916 but was stopped in 12 rounds. For me, though, one of his most remarkable feats was to give featherweight Joe Conn around 2 stone and 4 inches in height in 1918 and to comprehensively out-box him before stopping him in the 12th.
Conn was never the British Featherweight Champion although in his very next contest he met Tancy Lee(Paisley) for the title and lasted until the 17th round. Before the Wilde contest he had won 12 on the trot and amongst these victims were three men who at one time held a British title, Sid Smith, Tommy Noble and Curley Walker. He had also beaten Welsh feathers Danny Morgan(Tirphil) and Idris Jones(Ammanford) inside the distance and both of these men were of the highest order.
The idea of matching Jimmy Wilde with Joe Conn came from promoter Jack Callaghan. The show was held at Stamford Bridge, the home of Chelsea football club in London’s west end. It was not a natural match and I suspect that it was carefully contrived to allow Wilde to demonstrate to a large London audience just how versatile he was in being able to beat a man 30% heavier than he was. Conn was a dangerous protagonist but ‘pound for pound’ not in Wilde’s class.
Wilde prepared for the contest in training quarters at Camberley, Surrey and Conn trained a short distance away at Egham. Both were in the peak of condition when they entered the ring at 4 o’clock on that Saturday afternoon nearly 90 years ago. Conn was described by ‘Mirror of Life’ reporter J. Frank Bradley as having skin with a ‘peculiar yellowish tinge’ whilst Wilde’s was ‘a healthy looking pink’. The promoter had allowed wounded ex-Servicemen into the show for free and between 3,000 and 5,000 of them had taken him up on his offer. The soldiers swelled the crowd to around 10,000. Already 4 inches the shorter Wilde chose to fight in a crouch whilst Conn stood bolt upright. The height difference to many of the observers would have seemed to be a foot or more and the difference in weight was obvious for all to see. The accompanying photographs show this very clearly.
Wilde assumed the attack immediately and Conn was forced onto the retreat where he tried to defend himself with the use of the long left. In the third round Conn attacked and yet Wilde still took the honours with evasive tactics that caused most of Conn’s attacking blows to miss the target. The contest proceeded with first one, and then the other mounting an attack and Conn connected on a number of occasions with some quite telling blows. By round seven Wilde was staring to look distressed and Conn’s heavier blows were starting to make a difference. The 8th was a bad round for Jimmy and his eye was cut in the 9th. This general pattern continued into the 10th but then from nowhere Wilde scored with a hard right and Conn fell to the canvas ‘like a stricken ox’. He got up at nine but was put down a further four times before the round ended. With Conn at his mercy Wilde hit him at will during the 11th and 12th rounds and after being down a further seven times the referee finally stepped in and rescued him.
This contest showed just how Wilde could turn a contest completely around with the severity of his punching. He had Conn down eleven times in all and although he failed to put him down for the count this is probably because of Conn’s 2 stone advantage in weight. Although he got up every time, he was beaten senseless when the contest ended, his extra weight proving to be no advantage to him whatsoever.
Joe Conn ended his career in 1925 with a 68-31-6 record from 106 contests.
Wilde’s career ended following losses to Pete Herman (in 1921), to whom he conceded over a stone, and finally to Pancho Villa for the World Flyweight title (in 1923).
Miles Templeton.
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chrisjs1985
- Lightweight
- Posts: 783
- Joined: 11 Jan 2018, 12:45
Re: Jimmy Wilde and his early opponents
Brilliant stuff Milesprewarboxing wrote: ↑19 May 2018, 02:46 This is something I wrote about ten years ago on Wilde. Thought it might be worth putting up here:
Whilst perusing the recent biography on Jimmy Wilde produced by Gareth Harris I started to think about just how phenomenal this little man was. It is easy now to think of him as just another flyweight, one of many British flyweights who have won the World title. Pople ask was he better than Benny Lynch ? Would he have beaten Jackie Paterson or Walter McGowan ? Both questions miss the point about Wilde. What made him truly remarkable was the fact that although he had to fight in the flyweight class, as that was the lowest weight class in his day, by todays standards he wasn’t a flyweight at all. In fact his natural fighting weight (around 7st 2lbs) was considerably below the current Light-Flyweight level and he would even be conceding weight to some of today’s Straw-weights, yet he spent a large part of his career knocking out Bantamweights and Featherweights.
Wilde was notoriously reticent about revealing his weight for his contests and it was frequently kept secret. When he beat Johnny Rosner(USA) in 1916 he weighed around 7st 2lbs. He knocked out future British Bantamweight Champion Tommy Noble in 1916 when conceding between 18lbs and 20lbs. Noble was no mug either, he toured the United States extensively in the 1920s meeting all of the top men and rarely losing within the distance. Against future World Bantamweight Champion Joe Lynch(USA) in 1919 Wilde took a close verdict when fighting with a 14lbs disadvantage. Joe Symonds outweighed Wilde by 15lbs when they contested the British Flyweight Title in 1916 but was stopped in 12 rounds. For me, though, one of his most remarkable feats was to give featherweight Joe Conn around 2 stone and 4 inches in height in 1918 and to comprehensively out-box him before stopping him in the 12th.
Conn was never the British Featherweight Champion although in his very next contest he met Tancy Lee(Paisley) for the title and lasted until the 17th round. Before the Wilde contest he had won 12 on the trot and amongst these victims were three men who at one time held a British title, Sid Smith, Tommy Noble and Curley Walker. He had also beaten Welsh feathers Danny Morgan(Tirphil) and Idris Jones(Ammanford) inside the distance and both of these men were of the highest order.
The idea of matching Jimmy Wilde with Joe Conn came from promoter Jack Callaghan. The show was held at Stamford Bridge, the home of Chelsea football club in London’s west end. It was not a natural match and I suspect that it was carefully contrived to allow Wilde to demonstrate to a large London audience just how versatile he was in being able to beat a man 30% heavier than he was. Conn was a dangerous protagonist but ‘pound for pound’ not in Wilde’s class.
Wilde prepared for the contest in training quarters at Camberley, Surrey and Conn trained a short distance away at Egham. Both were in the peak of condition when they entered the ring at 4 o’clock on that Saturday afternoon nearly 90 years ago. Conn was described by ‘Mirror of Life’ reporter J. Frank Bradley as having skin with a ‘peculiar yellowish tinge’ whilst Wilde’s was ‘a healthy looking pink’. The promoter had allowed wounded ex-Servicemen into the show for free and between 3,000 and 5,000 of them had taken him up on his offer. The soldiers swelled the crowd to around 10,000. Already 4 inches the shorter Wilde chose to fight in a crouch whilst Conn stood bolt upright. The height difference to many of the observers would have seemed to be a foot or more and the difference in weight was obvious for all to see. The accompanying photographs show this very clearly.
Wilde assumed the attack immediately and Conn was forced onto the retreat where he tried to defend himself with the use of the long left. In the third round Conn attacked and yet Wilde still took the honours with evasive tactics that caused most of Conn’s attacking blows to miss the target. The contest proceeded with first one, and then the other mounting an attack and Conn connected on a number of occasions with some quite telling blows. By round seven Wilde was staring to look distressed and Conn’s heavier blows were starting to make a difference. The 8th was a bad round for Jimmy and his eye was cut in the 9th. This general pattern continued into the 10th but then from nowhere Wilde scored with a hard right and Conn fell to the canvas ‘like a stricken ox’. He got up at nine but was put down a further four times before the round ended. With Conn at his mercy Wilde hit him at will during the 11th and 12th rounds and after being down a further seven times the referee finally stepped in and rescued him.
This contest showed just how Wilde could turn a contest completely around with the severity of his punching. He had Conn down eleven times in all and although he failed to put him down for the count this is probably because of Conn’s 2 stone advantage in weight. Although he got up every time, he was beaten senseless when the contest ended, his extra weight proving to be no advantage to him whatsoever.
Joe Conn ended his career in 1925 with a 68-31-6 record from 106 contests.
Wilde’s career ended following losses to Pete Herman (in 1921), to whom he conceded over a stone, and finally to Pancho Villa for the World Flyweight title (in 1923).
Miles Templeton.
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elmersalsa
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 15670
- Joined: 02 Feb 2003, 03:50
Re: Jimmy Wilde and his early opponents
Great stuff from Miles Temperton!
The great Jimmy Wilde was so dominant at Flyweight that he had to fight bantanweight fighters to get a decent fight. And he was very small for being a Flyweight. What a fighter!
The great Jimmy Wilde was so dominant at Flyweight that he had to fight bantanweight fighters to get a decent fight. And he was very small for being a Flyweight. What a fighter!
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revpickles
- Super Featherweight
- Posts: 79
- Joined: 04 Sep 2018, 07:47
Re: Jimmy Wilde and his early opponents
I was first made aware of Jimmy Wilde by an old school power lifter in Doncaster in the 1990's.
Jimmy Spent a lot of time in Hull and when Geff (the power lifter) retired from the Gym he moved back there his self.
Back in his day Geff and my Grandfathers brother Joe used to do the strong man exhibitions which ran side by side with some of the boxing events.
Jimmy's story is remarkable and his books are well worth a read as boxing hasn't really changed much since he wrote them.
I did a video on Jimmy somewhere on Youtube many years ago but i no longer have the password so it's pointless trying to get back to the messages-however if you look hard enough you might find it.
In my opinions Jimmy should be made into a film.
Best of luck
Rev
Jimmy Spent a lot of time in Hull and when Geff (the power lifter) retired from the Gym he moved back there his self.
Back in his day Geff and my Grandfathers brother Joe used to do the strong man exhibitions which ran side by side with some of the boxing events.
Jimmy's story is remarkable and his books are well worth a read as boxing hasn't really changed much since he wrote them.
I did a video on Jimmy somewhere on Youtube many years ago but i no longer have the password so it's pointless trying to get back to the messages-however if you look hard enough you might find it.
In my opinions Jimmy should be made into a film.
Best of luck
Rev
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chrisjs1985
- Lightweight
- Posts: 783
- Joined: 11 Jan 2018, 12:45
Re: Jimmy Wilde and his early opponents
I just purchased the book, "Fighting was my business".revpickles wrote: ↑27 Jun 2019, 09:34 I was first made aware of Jimmy Wilde by an old school power lifter in Doncaster in the 1990's.
Jimmy Spent a lot of time in Hull and when Geff (the power lifter) retired from the Gym he moved back there his self.
Back in his day Geff and my Grandfathers brother Joe used to do the strong man exhibitions which ran side by side with some of the boxing events.
Jimmy's story is remarkable and his books are well worth a read as boxing hasn't really changed much since he wrote them.
I did a video on Jimmy somewhere on Youtube many years ago but i no longer have the password so it's pointless trying to get back to the messages-however if you look hard enough you might find it.
In my opinions Jimmy should be made into a film.
Best of luck
Rev
I also saw, "Hitting and stopping" How I won 100 fights", it's available for around $90 on amazon. I'd assume that's more instructional?
Worth getting it?
Thanks,
Re: Jimmy Wilde and his early opponents
Miles did you ever post Jim Easton’’s record. Also what do you have on John Donnelly from Newcastle he fought Alex Lafferty
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prewarboxing
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 641
- Joined: 22 Jul 2007, 02:58
Re: Jimmy Wilde and his early opponents
Jim Easton 1906-15 40 contests 11-22-7
Johnny Donnelly 1905-14 106 contests 63-33-10
drop me an email and I will send you the records
[email protected]
Miles Templeton
Johnny Donnelly 1905-14 106 contests 63-33-10
drop me an email and I will send you the records
[email protected]
Miles Templeton
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Caractacus
- Middleweight
- Posts: 18536
- Joined: 13 Jun 2014, 16:47
Re: Jimmy Wilde and his early opponents
Did Jimmy Wilde have a day job early in his career ?
why couldn't he have had the chance to fight that often ?
why couldn't he have had the chance to fight that often ?
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nobleart1978
- Welterweight
- Posts: 722
- Joined: 25 Jun 2015, 16:18
Re: Jimmy Wilde and his early opponents
All of these questions are answered in a new book which was published in October 2024:
The Mighty Atom - The Life of Boxing Legend Jimmy Wilde by Adrian Knott.
It is the definitive biography of the great man with a foreword by The Sun's Colin Hart. It is published by Pitch and is now available on Amazon...
PS I would have provided a photo of the cover but don't know how to upload it.
The Mighty Atom - The Life of Boxing Legend Jimmy Wilde by Adrian Knott.
It is the definitive biography of the great man with a foreword by The Sun's Colin Hart. It is published by Pitch and is now available on Amazon...
PS I would have provided a photo of the cover but don't know how to upload it.