Ottke vs. Brewer II clip

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 22 Sep 2006, 11:35

Max Molyneux wrote:Pound exists here.

Euros in Germany and Krone in Denmark.

So was Ottke offered that in Euros?

I don't know but I guess so.

Taki... · Post by **Taki...** » 22 Sep 2006, 12:32

pundit wrote:
Gary_V wrote:I think it's important to respect all boxers but I don't respect Ottke.

In my opinion he lost to: Johnson, Brewer (twice), Mitchell, Larsen and worst of all Robin Reid.
The only one he lost clearly was Brewer I. He handsomely won Johnson, Brewer II, and Mitchell handsomely. Reid and Larsen were ugly, hard-to-score fights at a time when Ottke was way beyond his peak.

Ottke/Reid wasn not 'hard to score'! Reid clearly had the upper hand, but was handicapped by the referee refusing to score a legit KD and continually warning Reid for hitting Ottke with scoring shots. For the last 3/4 rounds Reid looked utterly exasperated. Given a half decent ref Reid would've won EASILY. Ottke was a fraud.

Btw, I even scored Ottke/Starie even.

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 22 Sep 2006, 13:54

Taki... wrote:
pundit wrote:
Gary_V wrote:I think it's important to respect all boxers but I don't respect Ottke.

In my opinion he lost to: Johnson, Brewer (twice), Mitchell, Larsen and worst of all Robin Reid.
The only one he lost clearly was Brewer I. He handsomely won Johnson, Brewer II, and Mitchell handsomely. Reid and Larsen were ugly, hard-to-score fights at a time when Ottke was way beyond his peak.
Ottke/Reid wasn not 'hard to score'! Reid clearly had the upper hand, but was handicapped by the referee refusing to score a legit KD and continually warning Reid for hitting Ottke with scoring shots. For the last 3/4 rounds Reid looked utterly exasperated. Given a half decent ref Reid would've won EASILY. Ottke was a fraud.

Btw, I even scored Ottke/Starie even.

Well, that's you

I scored Reid-Ottke even. Reid did nothing in the second half of the fight.

But then, it doesn't really matter. Ottke was well past it in 2003.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 22 Sep 2006, 14:03

I think its become customary for British posters all over the web to have a pop at Ottke and dismiss him. But the man had serious skills and was a crafty bastard in his prime. Pundit for once we agree, he had slowed down considerably by 2003.

Taki... · Post by **Taki...** » 22 Sep 2006, 16:52

The sight of Ottke pleading with the ref to warn Reid for hitting him lives on in the memory. Crafty? Yes, for staying in Germany and collecting 4 dodgy decisions for his troubles. Skills? Yes, if skills equates to spending the whole fight either on your bike or in a clinch with the odd jab tossed in just so people watching remember it's actually a boxing match.
We all know Ottke's risk free approach was based on the fact that he KNEW if he went 12 rounds he'd win.

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 22 Sep 2006, 17:07

Taki... wrote:The sight of Ottke pleading with the ref to warn Reid for hitting him lives on in the memory. Crafty? Yes, for staying in Germany and collecting 4 dodgy decisions for his troubles. Skills? Yes, if skills equates to spending the whole fight either on your bike or in a clinch with the odd jab tossed in just so people watching remember it's actually a boxing match.
We all know Ottke's risk free approach was based on the fact that he KNEW if he went 12 rounds he'd win.

You've no clue about Ottke.

I guess this is because you have no clue.

Taki... · Post by **Taki...** » 22 Sep 2006, 17:44

pundit wrote:
Taki... wrote:The sight of Ottke pleading with the ref to warn Reid for hitting him lives on in the memory. Crafty? Yes, for staying in Germany and collecting 4 dodgy decisions for his troubles. Skills? Yes, if skills equates to spending the whole fight either on your bike or in a clinch with the odd jab tossed in just so people watching remember it's actually a boxing match.
We all know Ottke's risk free approach was based on the fact that he KNEW if he went 12 rounds he'd win.
You've no clue about Ottke.
I guess this is because you have no clue.

Says you! You're a well known Ottke/Kessler nuthugger... which kind of destroys any pretensions toward objectivity you or your threads/posts my allude to.
Clueless? That would be rating Kessler #1 at Supermiddle.

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 22 Sep 2006, 18:25

Taki... wrote:
pundit wrote:
Taki... wrote:The sight of Ottke pleading with the ref to warn Reid for hitting him lives on in the memory. Crafty? Yes, for staying in Germany and collecting 4 dodgy decisions for his troubles. Skills? Yes, if skills equates to spending the whole fight either on your bike or in a clinch with the odd jab tossed in just so people watching remember it's actually a boxing match.
We all know Ottke's risk free approach was based on the fact that he KNEW if he went 12 rounds he'd win.
You've no clue about Ottke.
I guess this is because you have no clue.
Says you! You're a well known Ottke/Kessler nuthugger... which kind of destroys any pretensions toward objectivity you or your threads/posts my allude to.
Clueless? That would be rating Kessler #1 at Supermiddle.

The answer is here my friend:

http://www.boxrec.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=49696

dumdane · Post by **dumdane** » 22 Sep 2006, 18:53

Max Molyneux wrote:Dumdane, why would Warren offer Kessler 50,000 in dollars when the dollar is not Danish or British money?

In pounds it's not bad, but if he beats Beyer then he'd have to offer a few hundred thousand then.

I quoted the amount in dollars bc it's been mentioned a number of times at this site as well as others in dollars. Pointless to do it in Kroner as most ppl couldn't be bothered to do the math. Since this is the british forum i could have bothered to convert it to pounds - but i figured in dollars everyone has apretty clear idea anyway.

As for a few hundred thousand being enough (even if we're talking pounds). Well it's probably the absolute most Warren is ever gonna offer - don't really think he'll want to go as high as that.
But have you got examples from recent times of holders of two major belts accepting a unificationfight for as little as that?
Can you find examples of a two belt holders accepting something in the region of 10-20 % of total profits in that kind of fight?

(all assuming Kessler gets past Beyer)

Axe · Post by **Axe** » 22 Sep 2006, 20:37

Taki you are quite right about the Reid fight, that ref was a disgrace.

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 22 Sep 2006, 21:33

Axe wrote:Taki you are quite right about the Reid fight, that ref was a disgrace.

Oh, noone disputes that.

Axe · Post by **Axe** » 23 Sep 2006, 02:56

pundit wrote:
Axe wrote:Taki you are quite right about the Reid fight, that ref was a disgrace.
Oh, noone disputes that.

Yeah, thankfully. Did he ever officiate again?

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 23 Sep 2006, 15:04

Axe wrote:
pundit wrote:
Axe wrote:Taki you are quite right about the Reid fight, that ref was a disgrace.
Oh, noone disputes that.
Yeah, thankfully. Did he ever officiate again?

http://www.boxrec.com/officials.php?official_id=174

So the answer is yes, but no more at this level.

glahn · Post by **glahn** » 23 Sep 2006, 16:06

I thought Ottke lost clearly to Reid and scraped past Starie by about a point. I don't think he was shit, but he was nowhere near as good as his record suggests, even in his prime.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 23 Sep 2006, 16:25

dumdane wrote:
Max Molyneux wrote:Dumdane, why would Warren offer Kessler 50,000 in dollars when the dollar is not Danish or British money?

In pounds it's not bad, but if he beats Beyer then he'd have to offer a few hundred thousand then.
I quoted the amount in dollars bc it's been mentioned a number of times at this site as well as others in dollars. Pointless to do it in Kroner as most ppl couldn't be bothered to do the math. Since this is the british forum i could have bothered to convert it to pounds - but i figured in dollars everyone has apretty clear idea anyway.

As for a few hundred thousand being enough (even if we're talking pounds). Well it's probably the absolute most Warren is ever gonna offer - don't really think he'll want to go as high as that.
But have you got examples from recent times of holders of two major belts accepting a unificationfight for as little as that?
Can you find examples of a two belt holders accepting something in the region of 10-20 % of total profits in that kind of fight?

(all assuming Kessler gets past Beyer)

Warren wouldn't offer a European Dollars.

No I havent got examples.

Warren offers fighters there worth. Lacy was paid more than Joe.

dondada · Post by **dondada** » 23 Sep 2006, 16:30

pundit wrote:
Taki... wrote:
pundit wrote: The only one he lost clearly was Brewer I. He handsomely won Johnson, Brewer II, and Mitchell handsomely. Reid and Larsen were ugly, hard-to-score fights at a time when Ottke was way beyond his peak.
Ottke/Reid wasn not 'hard to score'! Reid clearly had the upper hand, but was handicapped by the referee refusing to score a legit KD and continually warning Reid for hitting Ottke with scoring shots. For the last 3/4 rounds Reid looked utterly exasperated. Given a half decent ref Reid would've won EASILY. Ottke was a fraud.

Btw, I even scored Ottke/Starie even.
Well, that's you

I scored Reid-Ottke even. Reid did nothing in the second half of the fight.

But then, it doesn't really matter. Ottke was well past it in 2003.

You scored Reid-Ottke even?

PLEASE THROW THE TROLL OUT.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 23 Sep 2006, 16:39

glahn wrote:I thought Ottke lost clearly to Reid and scraped past Starie by about a point. I don't think he was shit, but he was nowhere near as good as his record suggests, even in his prime.

I think he lost to reid and easily outmanouevred the good boxer Starie.

dumdane · Post by **dumdane** » 23 Sep 2006, 18:53

Max Molyneux wrote:
Warren wouldn't offer a European Dollars.

I said that I quoted the amount in dollars. Didn't say it was offered in dollars.

No I havent got examples.

Warren offers fighters there worth. Lacy was paid more than Joe

Correction - Warren offers what HE decides he thinks a fighter is worth (or perhaps what he thinks is wise to offer - depending if he really wants the fight) - Not the same as what the fighter is worth from an objective viewpoint.