frank bruno vs gary mason

TheRiverCityHippy · Post by **TheRiverCityHippy** » 22 Sep 2006, 16:12

in the eighties this was THE domestic match up that the man in the street wanted to see. if this one would have come off it would have been a throwback fight to the golden age of british boxing where boxing would have dominated the back pages right up to the big night.
i bet you could have ran a subway train on the electric atmosphere generated ringside. definately a footy stadium job.
looking at masons record i think he`s a little underrated, his opposition wasnt stellar but a single loss to lennox lewis in 30 odd outings is pretty impressive especially when all but a couple of the opponents dont hear the final bell.
saying that i`d still lean towards big frank, i feel in this type of match up his ramrod jab would have kept gary on the back foot and i`d say a late stoppage or points win for frank.
thoughts please gents....

Seamus · Post by **Seamus** » 22 Sep 2006, 18:27

What exactly happened with Gary Mason ? Lennox Lewis handed him his first defeat, then he didn't fight again for almost 3 years, and when he did return he had two easy opponents then quit again.

Flump · Post by **Flump** » 22 Sep 2006, 19:19

Seamus wrote:What exactly happened with Gary Mason ? Lennox Lewis handed him his first defeat, then he didn't fight again for almost 3 years, and when he did return he had two easy opponents then quit again.

If memory serves he suffered a detached retina in the Lewis fight, couldn't get licensed by the British Board, had a couple of KO's over tomato cans in the States then gave it up for good.

He also blew a load of cash on a failed arm-wrestling venture and got fired from Sky TV for swearing on air. Last I heard he was working as a security guard at St Helier hospital in South London.

As for a Bruno fight, I reckon Big Frank would win a hard fought decision, Mason had a very solid chin and would have been difficult to knock over.

HomicideHenry · Post by **HomicideHenry** » 22 Sep 2006, 19:35

I think possibly the biggest match that could have been made, outside of Bruno/Lewis [which did happen], would have been Bruno vs Mason in a true battle of the Brits and would have been a grand HW specatcle.

Bruno had the edge in quality opposition, but Mason was very tough and had some fine skills, same as Bruno. I think it would have been a sure fire contest with plenty of punches and pride on the line...but as much as I like Gary Mason, I think since Bruno actually did get a portion of the title and had faced the better opposition, he would have pulled off a decision.

TheRiverCityHippy · Post by **TheRiverCityHippy** » 22 Sep 2006, 19:40

Flump wrote: He also blew a load of cash on a failed arm-wrestling venture and got fired from Sky TV for swearing on air.

yeah he said f.u.c.k. live on air.
i used to like mason as a studio guest but he seemed to have this almost pathological belief that scott welsh was the second coming of rocky marciano.

overhand_right · Post by **overhand_right** » 25 Sep 2006, 09:32

Mason wasnt that skilled but he was powerful and strong willed & this always seemed to see him through to a stoppage win. His career fell apart because of repeated trouble with his retina. I also think he was way too light for the LL fight.

But alas-

Much as I like Mason, Bruno was better in every department except the whole mental strength/chin kind of angle. Bruno used to get the better of Gazza in sparring on a regular basis.

The reason they never fought is that they came under the same manager/trainer/promotional umbrella. Also Mason became a star during Brunos lengthy exile after the Tyson loss. And then LL ended his career before Bruno had even comeback.

Mason though would squash Derek Williams, Horace Notice, and Herbie Hide et al. But Henry Akinwande an up hill task.

TheRiverCityHippy · Post by **TheRiverCityHippy** » 25 Sep 2006, 15:14

mercman wrote:
in the eighties this was THE domestic match up that the man in the street wanted to see.
I'm not sure I agree with that. Bruno v Mason would have been good but I think the British public really did get to see THE domestic match up of the eighties they wanted - Bruno v Bugner. This was hyped up for ages and there was a really big build up. It was all over the media and a really big occasion. Unfortunately the fight took place a few years too late and Bugner was well past it by the time they got together. He was only there for the money. However, had the fight taken place 3 or 4 years earlier it just might have been a different result.

Other good domestic match ups around the same period that didn't take place would have been Bruno v David Pearce, the big hitting but under-sized British heavyweight champion and Bruno v Rudi Pika ( a former amateur rival of Bruno's who was undefeated as a pro but his career petered out before he tragically took his own life at a very young age. I tried to start a thread about Pika a few months ago but unfortunately it only got a few responses. It is a shame he isn't more well remembered. Many thought he was a potential star).

Finally, another fight that was also floated was Bruno v Funso Banjo. It is a pity Big Frank wasn't more active domestically. After a few early contests he focused on the European and World scenes quite quickly - perhaps too soon in my opinion.

mason was a regular on terrestrial t.v though mate and i think apart from bugner, the others weren`t that well known to the general public.
i think the british public had generally thought bugner was a spent force by then where as mason was an up and coming force who seemed to be knocking fella`s out on telly at the rate of 1 a month!
your right though there were plenty of other domestic match up`s that would have been good fights like bruno or mason v horace notice for example. i think overhand right hit the nail on the head, most of the fighters tended to come under the mickey duff / terry lawless umbrella.
i`d be interested to hear more about bika myself though mate, although that era`s domestic heavyweight fighters couldnt be descibed as a golden generation there were certainly some interesting characters.

TheRiverCityHippy · Post by **TheRiverCityHippy** » 25 Sep 2006, 15:40

mercman wrote:
be interested to hear more about Pika myself though mate
He seems to have been a real prospect in his youth. He was senior Welsh amateur champion at heavyweight at 17 years old and after a very close fight was runner-up to Bruno in the ABAs at 18. He then turned pro under Mickey Duff (who was a big wheel in those days) and racked up a record of 13 or 14 undefeated fights, including a win over a young Glenn McCrory and a couple of useful Americans. Early in his pro career there was talk of a re-match with Bruno but he seemed to lose momentum and his last fight was about 1986 I think. A couple of years later he was found dead - apparently suicide. Some have said drugs were involved; others say he took his own life after domestic problems. From what I remember he was powerfully built, though not particularly tall with curly Joe Bugner style hair. I did see him fight but I can't remember too much about it as it was 20 odd years ago and I was fairly young at the time. Although he was Welsh with a name like Rudi Pika I guess his ancestory lay elsewhere - not sure where though. That's about all I know I'm afraid.

thats a tragic story mate, just awful.
sounds like he had the talent to become a decent fighter, his name sounds hungarian in origin or something like that to me.
R.I.P rudi.

overhand_right · Post by **overhand_right** » 28 Sep 2006, 10:39

mercman wrote:
Unfortunately the fight took place a few years too late and Bugner was well past it by the time they got together. He was only there for the money. However, had the fight taken place 3 or 4 years earlier it just might have been a different result.
.

Disagree totally with this comment. Bugner had beat Tillis, Bey, and Page over in Oz & hated Bruno & all his media attention with a passion. He was there to win and had he wanted to quit there were numerous occasions where he could have laid down/quit on his stool, but instead he took a hellish whipping & hung in right til he was literally bludgeoned to the floor in the 8th rd.

Had the fight taken a few years earlier the outcome may have been points instead of a kayo, but the winner would always be the same. Mr Negative was not fighting Richard Dunn or "Our Enery" as we all apparently refer to him as (yeah right) it was BRUNO & Big Frank was better than Bugner any day.

overhand_right · Post by **overhand_right** » 29 Sep 2006, 07:13

I suggest you re-watch the fight old boy. Bugner was pounded violently out of the fight and Im sure many people on the forum can verify this.

You think Bugner of the early 80s/beat Dino Denis (??!) could have beat Bruno? This would be the Bugner who lost to Marvis Frazier & Steffan Tangstad a couple of months later when he failed to secure a Bruno fight?

I would challenge you to name anyone Bugner beat in his long career that was as good as Bruno. In his title days he dropped decisions to Jack Bodell & Larry Middleton. Beating guys like Dunn, Blin, and Lubbers, scraping by Cooper etc, is not akin to fighting Frank Bruno. Neither is a shopworn 200ib Jimmy Ellis in the midst of a losing run. You must know that.

Yes he performed admirably v Frazier, but he lost comprehensively, and refused to fight once Ali & Lyle put pressure on him. I love Joe, Im a big fan of him, but I just dont ever seem him dealing with Bruno.

Syntax Error · Post by **Syntax Error** » 29 Sep 2006, 08:08

I would favour Mason in this one.

Both of them had big hearts, but Bruno did not know how to react under pressure.

Gary Mason had a good chin & I think Frank's stamina would have let him down & Mason would have stopped him late or won on points.

The Great John L · Post by **The Great John L** » 29 Sep 2006, 08:47

mercman wrote:I think a Bugner 10 years younger could well have beaten Bruno - especially as Frank tended to run out of gas badly in the late rounds.

I agree. I think a prime Bugner would have handled a prime Bruno rather easily.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 01 Oct 2006, 15:41

overhand_right wrote:
mercman wrote:
Unfortunately the fight took place a few years too late and Bugner was well past it by the time they got together. He was only there for the money. However, had the fight taken place 3 or 4 years earlier it just might have been a different result.
.
Disagree totally with this comment. Bugner had beat Tillis, Bey, and Page over in Oz & hated Bruno & all his media attention with a passion. He was there to win and had he wanted to quit there were numerous occasions where he could have laid down/quit on his stool, but instead he took a hellish whipping & hung in right til he was literally bludgeoned to the floor in the 8th rd.

Had the fight taken a few years earlier the outcome may have been points instead of a kayo, but the winner would always be the same. Mr Negative was not fighting Richard Dunn or "Our Enery" as we all apparently refer to him as (yeah right) it was BRUNO & Big Frank was better than Bugner any day.

Have to disagree with that, I'm a big Bruno fan but Bugner in his prime would have been too clever and mobile for frank... can you imagine Bruno going toe to toe with Frazier for 12 rounds or going the distance with Ali twice or with Ron Lyle??....

overhand_right · Post by **overhand_right** » 02 Oct 2006, 10:31

The guys Bugner beat put no pressure on him & brought no serious firepower IMO. Bruno would come at Bugner the same way Lyle did, and Bugner would shut down mentally & go into the classic Bugner-survival mode we've all seen so many times. Bugner was a guy very easily intimidated. When Ali kept jumping on him in Indonesia Bugner went into his shell & would not come out.

I know Brunos stamina aint great but if he can beat a hitter like Oliver McCall over 12 rds he can outlast a passive Bugner. Ive got stacks of tape on Bugner & he is simply not a guy who can throw the heavy leather than Bonecrusher, Spoon, Tyson, Lewis and McCall can.

Only difference with a prime Bugner is Bruno probably cant knock him down & wins on points.

The Great John L · Post by **The Great John L** » 02 Oct 2006, 14:21

mercman wrote:How do think Bruno would have done against an early '70s Ali? Or against Lyle for that matter?

Ali by mid to late round stoppage of Bruno. Lyle would have been a pretty exciting matchup, but Lyle had a better stamina, chin and skills. Lyle survives some terrific early exchanges to stop Bruno byht end of the 7th round.

overhand_right · Post by **overhand_right** » 03 Oct 2006, 12:04

Ali stops Bruno mid rounds? Weird comment since it took the huge punching Lennox Lewis to do that. And IMO Witherspoon & Bonecrusher hit much harder than Ali. Never saw anyone but big punchers take Bruno out but fair enough your entitled to your opinion.

No way would I bet money on Lyle in a fight v Bruno. Seen way too many of his fights. Wouldnt bet on Bruno either. Bruno achieved more, but it could go either way. Bruno never got knocked cold by some of the guys who did Lyle though.

overhand_right · Post by **overhand_right** » 03 Oct 2006, 12:40

Im not confident of Brunos stamina over 15 rds.

However the 80s Bruno who wasnt carrying 250 ib of freakish muscle does have a better shot. The thing is, Bruno coped with the 10 rd pace nicely, he just walked into Bonecrushers heavy artillery whilst trying to knock him out.

The Witherspoon fight was a brutal, exhausting slog, and Bruno made it to the 11th under The Spoons heavy hitting.

A Bugner fight would be an easier fight for Bruno. I dont see it being a tough fight as I see Bugner turning negative. I think things could get sticky down the stretch.

Difficult to judge any result as no evidence of Bugner turning things around down the stretch on a big puncher who pressured him, and no evidence of how Bruno lasts over 12 or 15 rds over regular-strength hitters....

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 03 Oct 2006, 12:47

overhand_right wrote:When Ali kept jumping on him in Indonesia Bugner went into his shell & would not come out.

I think you mean Malaysia?

From what I have read both Ali & Bugner used up all their energy 'entertaing women' before they got into the Boxing ring.

overhand_right · Post by **overhand_right** » 03 Oct 2006, 12:49

Eh?

Well Ali was energetic through 15 rds & Bugner did the usual Bugner show.

Stop believing everything you read Jolene.

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 03 Oct 2006, 12:52

overhand_right wrote:Stop believing everything you read Jolene.

Does that include your posts Geri Curl?

The Great John L · Post by **The Great John L** » 03 Oct 2006, 12:58

overhand_right wrote:Ali stops Bruno mid rounds? Weird comment since it took the huge punching Lennox Lewis to do that. And IMO Witherspoon & Bonecrusher hit much harder than Ali. Never saw anyone but big punchers take Bruno out but fair enough your entitled to your opinion.

Yes, Smith and Spoon punched harder than Ali. So what? Most KO’s/TKO’s are scored by landing more than one punch and Ali certainly delivered punches mmuch faster and more accurately than Smith, Spoon, and Tyson. The one dimensional, slow and plodding Bruno would have been a sitting duck for a well trained 70’s Ali and would have been busted up by mid rounds. Seems like a pretty reasonable assessment, but if you are certainly entitled to your opinion as well.

overhand_right wrote:No way would I bet money on Lyle in a fight v Bruno. Seen way too many of his fights. Wouldnt bet on Bruno either. Bruno achieved more, but it could go either way. Bruno never got knocked cold by some of the guys who did Lyle though.

Again this is nothing but opinion, but I would disagree with the statement that Bruno accomplished more than Lyle. While some of Lyle’s victims were past their primes, I think Bonavena, Ellis, Peralta, Shavers and a younger Bugner are at least as good as Bruno’s resume. And prior to the age of 38, which was well past the age of Bruno’s retirement, only Foreman and Ali stopped Lyle, and most consider the Ali stoppage of a Lyle still on his feet as pre-mature. And considering the fact that he withstood Shavers power and came back, most consider Lyle’s chin quite good.

Or maybe you consider his losses to Ball and Cooney when he was around 40 to be an indication of how good he was in his peak years?

overhand_right · Post by **overhand_right** » 03 Oct 2006, 12:59

KOJOE90 wrote:
overhand_right wrote:Stop believing everything you read Jolene.
Does that include your posts Geri Curl?

Particularly my posts.

overhand_right · Post by **overhand_right** » 03 Oct 2006, 13:10

John L:

Less durable fighters than Bruno went the distance with Ali.

And who says the Lyle stoppage is premature? He knocked Lyle into the ropes with one punch, and then flurried all over him for a good 30 seconds before the ref finally stepped in. How hard the flurries were is open to debate, but fact is Lyle never threw one shot back after Ali staggered him. Under those conditions, you get stopped.

The Great John L · Post by **The Great John L** » 03 Oct 2006, 13:17

overhand_right wrote: Less durable fighters than Bruno went the distance with Ali.

Ali would have toyed with the slow, plodding and one dimensional Bruno.

funso banjo baby · Post by **funso banjo baby** » 03 Oct 2006, 16:13

many good fights didnt happen at this period

Bruno should have fought Bugner after Joes fight with Dino Dennis

a young bruno shud have fought Neville meade

and of course bruno holmes would have been gr8 if bonecrusher hadnt spoilt it