The "Old School" Boxing Trainers

[Caractacus]

comments ?

[Caractacus]

I recently read the book IN THIS CORNER by Dave Anderson (former sports editor of the New York Times)
published in 1991. In that book he personally interviewed 12 boxing trainers.
Here is whom he interviewed.

Ray Arcel (b 1899)
Eddie Futch ( b. 1911)

Angelo Dundee (b.1921)
Bill Slayton (b. 1922)
Lou Duva ( b.1922)
Gil Clancey (b.1922)
Jackie McCoy ( b.1923)
Goody Petronelli (b.1923)
George Benton (b.1933)

Ritchie Giachetti (b. 1940)
Emanuel Steward ( b. 1944)

Kevin Rooney ( b. 1956)

[Controversial]

I do wonder how much trainers can take credit for a fighters career. If the fighter is dedicated, disciplined and good enough would they do well anyway? Brendan Ingle is underated though, he took several fighters from raw novices to world champ. For me that is more impressive than a trainer being around for a few fights, moving on and taking all the credit for a fighters success.

[Caractacus]

In the book THE CORNER MEN by Ronald K. Fried ( published in 1991)
He has chapters on these individuals ( most of whom were
associated with Stillman's Gym in NYC)

Jack Blackburn ( 1883-1941)
Charley Goldman (1888-1968)
Whitey Bimstein (1897-1969)
Mannie Seamon (1897-1983)
Ray Arcel (1899-1994) * interviewed
Freddie Brown (1907-1986)
Al Silvani (1910-1996) *interviewed
Eddie Futch (1911-2001) *interviewed
Angelo Dundee ( 1921-2012) *interviewed

the author also interviewed some other older veteran trainers
for the book but did not write a chapter on them

Johnny Tocco (1910-1997)
George Chemeres (1914-2002)
Lou Duva (1922-2017)
Ted Walker (c.1923-1998)
George Benton (1933-2011)

[Caractacus]

Harry Wiley (1909-1972)


Bill "Pops" Miller (1925-2012)
he had studied under Whitey Bimstein

[DavidKehler]

I love Ronald Fried's book. In my view, the quality of boxing in the United States declined when the Jewish trainers who were prominent in the 1920s passed from the scene.

[Caractacus]

also the boxing clubs in the USA.
there was still about 400 Boxing clubs across the country in the late 1940's.

[Caractacus]

some of the names of other Old School Boxing trainers at Stillman's gym in NYC during the 1940's and 1950's were,

Nick Florio
Dan Florio (d.1965)
Chickie Ferrara
Bill Gore (1892-1975)

Harry Lenny
Izzy Kline
Teddy Bentham (c. 1909-1976)

Dick Vick
Freddie Fierro
Johnny Sullo
Izzy Grove

[Caractacus]

Lou Fink (1889-1945) had trained Gene Tunney and Tony Canzoneri.
but for some reason you don't ever hear much about him too much.

https://books.google.com/books?id=JIZaA ... &pg=PA2&dq

[Caractacus]

-1955-

[Expug]

I do wonder how much trainers can take credit for a fighters career. If the fighter is dedicated, disciplined and good enough would they do well anyway? Brendan Ingle is underated though, he took several fighters from raw novices to world champ. For me that is more impressive than a trainer being around for a few fights, moving on and taking all the credit for a fighters success.

I agree. Not as difficult to take a guy who just won gold at the Olympics as it is to work with the kid walking in the door for the first time. “ It ain’t the guy in the corner, it’s the guy on the stool”. That said , I found Billy Conns trainer Johnny Ray to be an interesting fella.

[Caractacus]

yeah, but how many fighters have the natural disipline to train themselves ?
Jake LaMotta claimed to mostly be his own trainer.
(Clubber Lang too, but that was just a movie of course)

[Caractacus]

[Caractacus]

yeah, but how many fighters have the natural disipline to train themselves ?
Jake LaMotta claimed to mostly be his own trainer.
(Clubber Lang too, but that was just a movie of course)

Mike Tyson in one of his books,
says (more then once) that he (by nature)is a "Lazy F*ck)
and needed to be motivated.

[Caractacus]

Bobby Lewis

[Caractacus]

The names of a couple assistant trainers from back in the day.
Frank Percoco (who was an assitiant trainer to WhitEy Bimstein for Rocky Graziano)
Nick Baffi ( who was an assitant trainer to Cus D'Amato back in the 1950's)

[Caractacus]

-1970-
(Cus D'Amato had been Joe Shaw's original trainer/manager when he turned pro back in the late 1950's.

[Caractacus]

BTW Has anyone here read the book
CONFUSING THE ENEMY:The Cus D' Amato story by Scott Weiss (2014)?
Have you ever seen a hardbound edition of it ?
I recently tried to get a copy via "inter-library loan"
but was told it is only available in a "E-Book".
(However I dont read E-books)

[Ambling Alp II]

Florio was mentioned earlier. He was a much better trainer than D'Amato.

[Caractacus]

was Dan Florio the one that Cus D'Amato had fired, claiming
that he was 'stealing from him" and 'crooked" ?
(perhaps it may have been Frank Levelle)
When Florio left, Patterson left .
(Liston vrs Patterson II was the last time D'Amato worked Patterson's corner)

[Caractacus]

BTW Have you ever read the book ARMS FOR LIVING by Gene Tunney (published 1941)
when you read that it sounds a whole lot like Cus D'Amato's 'philosophy"
Gene Tunney has chapters in it on Courage, Fear and most important of all to him "Will Power".
be sure to check it out.

[Ambling Alp II]

was Dan Florio the one that Cus D'Amato had fired, claiming
that he was 'stealing from him" and 'crooked" ?
(perhaps it may have been Frank Levelle)
When Florio left, Patterson left .
(Liston vrs Patterson II was the last time D'Amato worked Patterson's corner)

Have never heard that D'Amato had him fired, though I think there was some tension between the two. I read a biography on Floyd Patterson a few years ago. It implied that D'Amato was a wacko who didn't really know what he was doing.
Florio was brought in to be the chief second before the 2nd Johansson fight. (If I remember correctly, D'Amato was not involved in that fight.) Patterson fought one of the best fights of his career in that fight.

Florio trained Battalino, Canzoneri, Jack Delaney, Freddie Miller, and several other big-name guys during his career. He also turned Jersey Joe Walcott's career around. He somehow is not in the Hall of Fame; probably should have been in more than 20 years ago.

[Caractacus]

sounds like that first dude must have spent some considerable time in the gym himself.
because he doesn't sound like an actor.
-1953-

[Caractacus]

Floyd Patterson broke ties to Cus D'Amato officially in June 1964.
Dan Florio his head trainer then became his manager,
and Fran Lavelle (who was Patterson's original trainer at the Gramercy Gym became his trainer.
Buster Watson also had been a assitant trainer of Patterson's in the late 1950's.
maybe that is who D'Amato had fired ?

[Caractacus]

Jerry Levadis aka Jerry the Greek had trained Jack Dempsey for the Fights with Firpo and Tunney.
Gus Wilson also a trainer of Jack Dempsey (Tunney fight)

Teddy Hayes also trained Jack Dempsey and later Mickey Walker.