Modern Tech, Nutrition and Day Before Weigh Ins.

[keithmoonhangover]

What would Tommy Hearns boil down to?

[Expug]

Do you mean how much he would put back on after weighing in the day before? It’s an interesting question. I don’t think Tommy could get much lower than the 145 or so he got to before Ray.

[keithmoonhangover]

Do you mean how much he would put back on after weighing in the day before? It’s an interesting question. I don’t think Tommy could get much lower than the 145 or so he got to before Ray.

People are saying that heavyweights from that era could boil down to cruiser. Just wondered if they think Tommy could get down to 135 or 140.

[Expug]

Do you mean how much he would put back on after weighing in the day before? It’s an interesting question. I don’t think Tommy could get much lower than the 145 or so he got to before Ray.

People are saying that heavyweights from that era could boil down to cruiser. Just wondered if they think Tommy could get down to 135 or 140.

He had a big frame even though he got to welterweight. I can’t see him getting quite that light without really being drained. Although Manny said he got too light before the Leonard fight at 145.

[goose 5]

I love this topic-not specifically about Hearns- about rehydration .I spoke about it at length with the two Mandos-Ramos and Muniz. They told me there is an art to fighting in a dehydrated state. Ramos said if he had 24 hours to rehydrate, he would have gone from 135-150. Muniz told me he was never fully rehydrated.

[Controversial]

I love this topic

Yes same, it’s like the actual weight divisions are irrelevant as some fighters walk into the ring 20-30lbs heavier, it’s a cheat really. If same day weigh ins were still around lots of guys would be forced to fight in heavier divisions. Zurdo was 204lbs for one of his LHW fights, he’d be a HW in previous generations where he has a same day weigh in

[Expug]

I participated in same day weigh ins in the eighties. Had some pro fights in that era. It never seemed to be an issue and it seemed to make total sense. Weighed in at the Illinois athletic commission office downtown at like ten am. Fought that night. Never even weighed myself after the weigh in to see what , if any difference there was. I don’t know why it changed really. Seems counter productive or something

[Ezzard]

I think it helps the big stars with big money backing to boil down and pick up a gtitle or two a lower weights where they are huge on fight night.

I think it was just another way of skewing the odds in favour of the house fighter.

[Expug]

There was a huge controversy when Arturo Gatti fought Joey Gamache. Gatti came in way heavier and Gamache was badly injured. I don’t know how it all turned out but there was a lawsuit. I think Gamaches career was ended.

[elmersalsa]

There was a huge controversy when Arturo Gatti fought Joey Gamache. Gatti came in way heavier and Gamache was badly injured. I don’t know how it all turned out but there was a lawsuit. I think Gamaches career was ended.

That was a total travesty. A murder.

[p4p1]

What would Tommy Hearns boil down to?

You would think he would get to 135 pretty easily, assuming all else was equal with his walkaround weight. For a skinny guy, I am not sure you would want him to try and dehydrate himself down to 130. It is easier for someone who is 5'8 and 145 lbs to dehydrate themselves to 130 than someone who is 6'2 because of the extra muscle mass holding more fluid.
It is a crazy thought that there could be a 6'2 lightweight.

I participated in same day weigh ins in the eighties. Had some pro fights in that era. It never seemed to be an issue and it seemed to make total sense. Weighed in at the Illinois athletic commission office downtown at like ten am. Fought that night. Never even weighed myself after the weigh in to see what , if any difference there was. I don’t know why it changed really. Seems counter productive or something

It changed for safety reasons. Fighters would dehydrate themselves if they were just over the weight limit by a couple of pounds and potentially go to the ring partially dehydrated. The idea being, give them a full 24 hours (not to mention, there is $$$ involved in making a spectacle of a weigh in the day before), the guys that need to cut a few pounds will be fully hydrated and everything will be as safe as possible.
What they didn't foresee, though maybe they should have, is that the guys that would have cut a few pounds to make 147, would now say: '24 hours to rehydrate. I can make 140lbs under those rules.' which eventually became a cut to 135.
I guess that is part of the problem with weight classes, despite how many there are, there is always guys that are going to be in-between weights, giving up a small advantage to guys who's walk around weight is bang on the limit. In elite sport, small percentages matter. Now that everyone does it though, you end up, for the most part with the same guys fighting each other anyway because everyone is cutting.

There was a huge controversy when Arturo Gatti fought Joey Gamache. Gatti came in way heavier and Gamache was badly injured. I don’t know how it all turned out but there was a lawsuit. I think Gamache career was ended.

The weight is likely one of the smaller factors here. I had a quick look at their records, Gamache definitely wasn't facing murderers row coming into the Gatti fight, so it is difficult to know how much he had left in the tank and how good he was at that point.
The major issue that the lawsuit focused on was that Gamache's team were not convinced that Gatti had made 141lbs before the NYSAC official let him get off the scale. I suspect that Gamache's team may have thought they would have an advantage because Gatti would be weight drained, so may have not bothered with an immediate protest, which is what they should have done IMO.
The judge found NYSAC negligent with their weighing of Gatti but the judge wasn't convinced it was a major factor in the injuries. Which to be fair would be very hard to prove. Gamache had been fighting professionally for 13 years, had been stoped 3 times before, had taken countless blows to the head in both fights and sparring etc.

[Controversial]

What would Tommy Hearns boil down to?

You would think he would get to 135 pretty easily, assuming all else was equal with his walkaround weight. For a skinny guy, I am not sure you would want him to try and dehydrate himself down to 130. It is easier for someone who is 5'8 and 145 lbs to dehydrate themselves to 130 than someone who is 6'2 because of the extra muscle mass holding more fluid.

It's crazy how small those weights are when you think about it. Even at MW, how many adult men do we see walking around who are 160lbs (11.4 stone), it's actually quite small. I'm 6'0" and averaged size, most people describe me as being quite slim and I'm around 190 (13.7 stone) and Hearns is taller than me so the fact he could make 147 (10.5 stone) is crazy.

[p4p1]

What would Tommy Hearns boil down to?

You would think he would get to 135 pretty easily, assuming all else was equal with his walkaround weight. For a skinny guy, I am not sure you would want him to try and dehydrate himself down to 130. It is easier for someone who is 5'8 and 145 lbs to dehydrate themselves to 130 than someone who is 6'2 because of the extra muscle mass holding more fluid.

It's crazy how small those weights are when you think about it. Even at MW, how many adult men do we see walking around who are 160lbs (11.4 stone), it's actually quite small. I'm 6'0" and averaged size, most people describe me as being quite slim and I'm around 190 (13.7 stone) and Hearns is taller than me so the fact he could make 147 (10.5 stone) is crazy.

I don't disagree, it is quite skewed towards smaller people, but people we smaller when the weight classes were being made.

It is interesting how much lighter most average people can be by a properly healthy diet that lessens fluid retention and gets rid of a bit of excess fat. The reason why weight loss is so fast in the beginning is because people are dropping down the amount of salt they, carbs etc. I'm definitely no expert but from personal experience and from being around gyms, that is something that I have noticed.

[Expug]

What would Tommy Hearns boil down to?

You would think he would get to 135 pretty easily, assuming all else was equal with his walkaround weight. For a skinny guy, I am not sure you would want him to try and dehydrate himself down to 130. It is easier for someone who is 5'8 and 145 lbs to dehydrate themselves to 130 than someone who is 6'2 because of the extra muscle mass holding more fluid.
It is a crazy thought that there could be a 6'2 lightweight.

I participated in same day weigh ins in the eighties. Had some pro fights in that era. It never seemed to be an issue and it seemed to make total sense. Weighed in at the Illinois athletic commission office downtown at like ten am. Fought that night. Never even weighed myself after the weigh in to see what , if any difference there was. I don’t know why it changed really. Seems counter productive or something

It changed for safety reasons. Fighters would dehydrate themselves if they were just over the weight limit by a couple of pounds and potentially go to the ring partially dehydrated. The idea being, give them a full 24 hours (not to mention, there is $$$ involved in making a spectacle of a weigh in the day before), the guys that need to cut a few pounds will be fully hydrated and everything will be as safe as possible.
What they didn't foresee, though maybe they should have, is that the guys that would have cut a few pounds to make 147, would now say: '24 hours to rehydrate. I can make 140lbs under those rules.' which eventually became a cut to 135.
I guess that is part of the problem with weight classes, despite how many there are, there is always guys that are going to be in-between weights, giving up a small advantage to guys who's walk around weight is bang on the limit. In elite sport, small percentages matter. Now that everyone does it though, you end up, for the most part with the same guys fighting each other anyway because everyone is cutting.

There was a huge controversy when Arturo Gatti fought Joey Gamache. Gatti came in way heavier and Gamache was badly injured. I don’t know how it all turned out but there was a lawsuit. I think Gamache career was ended.

The weight is likely one of the smaller factors here. I had a quick look at their records, Gamache definitely wasn't facing murderers row coming into the Gatti fight, so it is difficult to know how much he had left in the tank and how good he was at that point.
The major issue that the lawsuit focused on was that Gamache's team were not convinced that Gatti had made 141lbs before the NYSAC official let him get off the scale. I suspect that Gamache's team may have thought they would have an advantage because Gatti would be weight drained, so may have not bothered with an immediate protest, which is what they should have done IMO.
The judge found NYSAC negligent with their weighing of Gatti but the judge wasn't convinced it was a major factor in the injuries. Which to be fair would be very hard to prove. Gamache had been fighting professionally for 13 years, had been stoped 3 times before, had taken countless blows to the head in both fights and sparring etc.

Thanks for clearing up the Gamache situation. I was unaware how that turned out. I forgot that his team were concerned that Gatti got off the scale without even hitting the weight.

[goose 5]

Johnny Bos went to his grave insisting that Gatti could not have gone from 140 to 160.

[Caractacus]

Frank Sutton had been a dietician to boxers back in the 1930's,
such as for Joe Louis and John Henry Lewis.

[Caractacus]

back in the 1960's managers and trainers use to send their fighters up to the
Pawling Health Manor at Rhinebeck new York.
here is an interview with one of the co-founders

[1768149]

google baseball wrote: ↑

What would Tommy Hearns boil down to?

You would think he would get to 135 pretty easily, assuming all else was equal with his walkaround weight. For a skinny guy, I am not sure you would want him to try and dehydrate himself down to 130. It is easier for someone who is 5'8 and 145 lbs to dehydrate themselves to 130 than someone who is 6'2 because of the extra muscle mass holding more fluid.

It's crazy how small those weights are when you think about it. Even at MW, how many adult men do we see walking around who are 160lbs (11.4 stone), it's actually quite small. I'm 6'0" and averaged size, most people describe me as being quite slim and I'm around 190 (13.7 stone) and Hearns is taller than me so the fact he could make 147 (10.5 stone) is crazy.