Ezzard wrote: ↑04 Apr 2025, 09:56
Most importantly he never fought at the weight again. He knew.
It's fine to dislike Jones, I do too, but this is not true. He had a fight lined up with Corrie Sanders in the second half of 2003 for the WBO belt, being unable to pin down Tyson or Holyfield. A mega fight with Lewis was being discussed. Lewis mentions it as one of his upcoming fights in the HBO prefight prior to Klitschko.
Obviously Jones being an imbecile instead opted at 35 to drain himself back down to light heavy for a grudge match with Tarver which rendered him unable to handle light heavies, never mind heavies. He couldn't get out of the way of punches anymore.
I like Lennox and dislike Jones; but the speed, reflexes & power Jones demonstrated at heavy would obviously be difficult for the fading Lennox of 2003. It wouldn't be an upset if that Jones beat that Lewis.
I don't buy the idea that Jones was drained back to LHW. His body just went back to his natural weight. He was of course in a situation where it was too risky for him to continue his PED use. His team of lawyers were not going to be able to shield him any longer. And those magical super powers unsurprisngly faded.
You have more confidence in Jones at HW than he did.
Maybe if Ruiz had got to pick the ref and the ring etc we might have had a different result. That Jones era was possibly the worst for the sport that I've lived through. Mayweather runs him close.
Ezzard wrote: ↑04 Apr 2025, 09:56
Most importantly he never fought at the weight again. He knew.
It's fine to dislike Jones, I do too, but this is not true. He had a fight lined up with Corrie Sanders in the second half of 2003 for the WBO belt, being unable to pin down Tyson or Holyfield. A mega fight with Lewis was being discussed. Lewis mentions it as one of his upcoming fights in the HBO prefight prior to Klitschko.
Obviously Jones being an imbecile instead opted at 35 to drain himself back down to light heavy for a grudge match with Tarver which rendered him unable to handle light heavies, never mind heavies. He couldn't get out of the way of punches anymore.
I like Lennox and dislike Jones; but the speed, reflexes & power Jones demonstrated at heavy would obviously be difficult for the fading Lennox of 2003. It wouldn't be an upset if that Jones beat that Lewis.
I don't buy the idea that Jones was drained back to LHW. His body just went back to his natural weight. He was of course in a situation where it was too risky for him to continue his PED use. His team of lawyers were not going to be able to shield him any longer. And those magical super powers unsurprisngly faded.
You have more confidence in Jones at HW than he did.
Maybe if Ruiz had got to pick the ref and the ring etc we might have had a different result. That Jones era was possibly the worst for the sport that I've lived through. Mayweather runs him close.
The referee made Ruiz box. His hitting and holding style is illegal and he only got away with it for so long because he was a Don King fighter on Don King cards with Don King refs. The second he fought on a level playing field, against Jones, and the rules of boxing were enforced, he was easily outboxed.
Anyway I'll leave it at that, your strong dislike of Jones clouds your judgment too much.
Ezzard wrote: ↑04 Apr 2025, 07:14
Going back to the original question...
Louis v Ali
Louis v Foreman
Louis v Frazier
Louis v Norton
Louis v Young
I can see arguments that he wins all 5 or loses all 5.
Are we talking absolute peak for all concerned?
I guess I think Louis's easiest assignment here would be Foreman. Joe's compact and correct punching would be too much. The caveat is as long as Louis doesn't get hit with something big early as was often the case.
Frazier and Norton both got better as fights went on. At the same time both were susceptible early too. These are even match ups, I think.
Ali and Young could both move well. At some point Joe would catch up with them. In those moments does he manage to do enough damage to turn the fight his way or not??? He's likey behind at the half way point in both fights.
It's fine to dislike Jones, I do too, but this is not true. He had a fight lined up with Corrie Sanders in the second half of 2003 for the WBO belt, being unable to pin down Tyson or Holyfield. A mega fight with Lewis was being discussed. Lewis mentions it as one of his upcoming fights in the HBO prefight prior to Klitschko.
Obviously Jones being an imbecile instead opted at 35 to drain himself back down to light heavy for a grudge match with Tarver which rendered him unable to handle light heavies, never mind heavies. He couldn't get out of the way of punches anymore.
I like Lennox and dislike Jones; but the speed, reflexes & power Jones demonstrated at heavy would obviously be difficult for the fading Lennox of 2003. It wouldn't be an upset if that Jones beat that Lewis.
The 3 Tarver fights were after the Ruiz one.
What did you read in my post that led you to believe I didnt know that?
Sorry, somehow thought "grudge" was meant as their decisive fight. My bad.
Ezzard wrote: ↑04 Apr 2025, 09:56
Most importantly he never fought at the weight again. He knew.
It's fine to dislike Jones, I do too, but this is not true. He had a fight lined up with Corrie Sanders in the second half of 2003 for the WBO belt, being unable to pin down Tyson or Holyfield. A mega fight with Lewis was being discussed. Lewis mentions it as one of his upcoming fights in the HBO prefight prior to Klitschko.
Obviously Jones being an imbecile instead opted at 35 to drain himself back down to light heavy for a grudge match with Tarver which rendered him unable to handle light heavies, never mind heavies. He couldn't get out of the way of punches anymore.
I like Lennox and dislike Jones; but the speed, reflexes & power Jones demonstrated at heavy would obviously be difficult for the fading Lennox of 2003. It wouldn't be an upset if that Jones beat that Lewis.
I don't buy the idea that Jones was drained back to LHW. His body just went back to his natural weight. He was of course in a situation where it was too risky for him to continue his PED use. His team of lawyers were not going to be able to shield him any longer. And those magical super powers unsurprisngly faded.
You have more confidence in Jones at HW than he did.
Maybe if Ruiz had got to pick the ref and the ring etc we might have had a different result. That Jones era was possibly the worst for the sport that I've lived through. Mayweather runs him close.
What is all this about Jones and the referee? Jones almost completely dominated this fight. What did the referee do that was so bad?
We are feeling sorry for John Ruiz of all people? The guy got more breaks than almost any fighter that ever lived.
It's fine to dislike Jones, I do too, but this is not true. He had a fight lined up with Corrie Sanders in the second half of 2003 for the WBO belt, being unable to pin down Tyson or Holyfield. A mega fight with Lewis was being discussed. Lewis mentions it as one of his upcoming fights in the HBO prefight prior to Klitschko.
Obviously Jones being an imbecile instead opted at 35 to drain himself back down to light heavy for a grudge match with Tarver which rendered him unable to handle light heavies, never mind heavies. He couldn't get out of the way of punches anymore.
I like Lennox and dislike Jones; but the speed, reflexes & power Jones demonstrated at heavy would obviously be difficult for the fading Lennox of 2003. It wouldn't be an upset if that Jones beat that Lewis.
I don't buy the idea that Jones was drained back to LHW. His body just went back to his natural weight. He was of course in a situation where it was too risky for him to continue his PED use. His team of lawyers were not going to be able to shield him any longer. And those magical super powers unsurprisngly faded.
You have more confidence in Jones at HW than he did.
Maybe if Ruiz had got to pick the ref and the ring etc we might have had a different result. That Jones era was possibly the worst for the sport that I've lived through. Mayweather runs him close.
What is all this about Jones and the referee? Jones almost completely dominated this fight. What did the referee do that was so bad?
We are feeling sorry for John Ruiz of all people? The guy got more breaks than almost any fighter that ever lived.
It is the most extreme case of Jones Derangement Syndrome I've ever encountered. Being angry over a referee forcing John Ruiz to obey the rules of boxing, resulting in his defeat, is a rare level of insanity.
