What areas seem to consistently groom the best amateur boxers? I would say the 3 regions that took 1st, 2nd & 3rd this year at the U.S. Championships (Region 5-Great Lakes including Michigan, Ohio, Indiana, Illinois & Kentucky, Region 14-Great West including Southern California, and Region 1-Northeast including Metro N.Y.) plus region 8 (Texas) and Region 2 (largely due to PA and the D.C. area). There are definitely some other good boxing areas like St. Louis, much of Florida, and NoCal.
Any thoughts?
Hotbeds of amateur boxing in the U.S.
Re: Hotbeds of amateur boxing in the U.S.
I would agree with R5, Ohio makes that region strong. They are good amateurs, and that's what your question is. Definitely don't transform well to the pros, but as for ams, I would say Ohio. Soutern CAL is really tough, but sometimes kids don't show up at Nationals; maybe they fought too hard to make it out. Still, there can be like 5 boxers just in the finals from Cali, that's how tough they are. Texas is big, I would say Dallas/Fort Worth region there. St. Louis is really good when they are little, I don't think they are too great when they turn open though.
Re: Hotbeds of amateur boxing in the U.S.
California, New York, DC area, Texas, and Ohio. Ohio alone has had 2 representatives in the last two Olympics (Rau'shee Warren of Cincinnati and Shawn Porter and Raynell Williams of Cleveland) and have David Carlton, Antonio Nieves, Warren, Raynell Williams, and Chris Pearson in the Olympic Trials now plus Cashmere Jackson the No. 1 female at 141.
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ICEMAN JOHN SCULLY
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Re: Hotbeds of amateur boxing in the U.S.
Back in the 1980's no area of the USA had more top level amateurs that greater St. Louis...they were DEEEEEEEEP....
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Travis h.
- Heavyweight
Re: Hotbeds of amateur boxing in the U.S.
You are spot on ICE.ICEMAN JOHN SCULLY wrote:Back in the 1980's no area of the USA had more top level amateurs that greater St. Louis...they were DEEEEEEEEP....
Re: Hotbeds of amateur boxing in the U.S.
2008: Warren and Williams from Ohiojsant09 wrote:California, New York, DC area, Texas, and Ohio. Ohio alone has had 2 representatives in the last two Olympics (Rau'shee Warren of Cincinnati and Shawn Porter and Raynell Williams of Cleveland) and have David Carlton, Antonio Nieves, Warren, Raynell Williams, and Chris Pearson in the Olympic Trials now plus Cashmere Jackson the No. 1 female at 141.
2004: Warren and Siler from Cincinnati, Ohio, Devon Vargas from Toledo, OH and Andre Dirrell from Flint, MI. All region 5 boxers. California also had 3 boxers. Philly had one.
2000: 2 from Cincy and 1 from Chicago so 3 from Region 5.
1996: Floyd Jr from Grand Rapids, MI, Nate Jones & David Diaz from Chicago so again 3 from Reg 5. Philly alone had 3.
1992: Cincy had 2, Chicago 2 and Flint, MI 1. Total 5 from Reg 5.
1988: Illinois had 2 and that was it for Reg 5.
1984: 2 from Detoit and 1 from Columbus so 3 from Reg 5.
1980: Only 1 Reg 5 boxer on the team that didn't go to the Olympics in Moscow
When looking at those last 8 Olympic Teams, you see the hotbeds I discussed - Region 5 (mostly Chicago, Cincinnati, Cleveland and Detroit with Flint, Grand Rapids and Toledo also in there). You also see a lot of boxers from Philly, DC, California, New York/New England and Florida.
Re: Hotbeds of amateur boxing in the U.S.
The one thing that really has changed is the number of boxers from the military branches. They used to dominate the Olympic Trials but haven't in many years. Did the military branches cut back on funding for their boxing programs or is it something else?
Re: Hotbeds of amateur boxing in the U.S.
I can't answer your question about the military branches Dennis, I just don't know what happened. But I need names with this statement quoted. All I can remember in the 80's from St. Louis was the late L.S. Philly on the other hand had James Shuler, Meldrick Taylor and his brothers, Tyrell Biggs, Clayton and Young (rip) and Ivan R.Travis h. wrote:You are spot on ICE.ICEMAN JOHN SCULLY wrote:Back in the 1980's no area of the USA had more top level amateurs that greater St. Louis...they were DEEEEEEEEP....
Re: Hotbeds of amateur boxing in the U.S.
First, as far as I know former champ Leon Spinks is still alive. Second, I didn't make the statement but besides Leon you had his brother Michael. There have been a lot of good boxers from St. Louis but you are correct that Philly develops a lot of great boxers too.teasy24 wrote:I can't answer your question about the military branches Dennis, I just don't know what happened. But I need names with this statement quoted. All I can remember in the 80's from St. Louis was the late L.S. Philly on the other hand had James Shuler, Meldrick Taylor and his brothers, Tyrell Biggs, Clayton and Young (rip) and Ivan R.Travis h. wrote:You are spot on ICE.ICEMAN JOHN SCULLY wrote:Back in the 1980's no area of the USA had more top level amateurs that greater St. Louis...they were DEEEEEEEEP....
Re: Hotbeds of amateur boxing in the U.S.
Oh no Dennis, I made the mistake of answering your question after I quoted them. I know you didn't make that. And Spinks wasn't the 80's, I was talking about Steeples, he was a GG champ and top amateur at 139 pounds. I didn't even realize L.S. was both haha! My bad.Dennis wrote:First, as far as I know former champ Leon Spinks is still alive. Second, I didn't make the statement but besides Leon you had his brother Michael. There have been a lot of good boxers from St. Louis but you are correct that Philly develops a lot of great boxers too.teasy24 wrote:I can't answer your question about the military branches Dennis, I just don't know what happened. But I need names with this statement quoted. All I can remember in the 80's from St. Louis was the late L.S. Philly on the other hand had James Shuler, Meldrick Taylor and his brothers, Tyrell Biggs, Clayton and Young (rip) and Ivan R.Travis h. wrote: You are spot on ICE.
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ICEMAN JOHN SCULLY
- Heavyweight
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Re: Hotbeds of amateur boxing in the U.S. (ST LOUIS)...
You asked and now u receive :)
ICEMAN JOHN SCULLY
ST. LOUIS, Missouri:
Many boxing fans talk about New York, Detroit, Philly and Los Angeles as "the places to be" for boxers. Maybe so. They were all producing some great talent, that's undeniable. But I will tell you this: Very few cities or towns in this country can match the amateur boxing talent that came through the greater St. Louis, Missouri programs in the 1980's. I can't even think of ALL the good boxers that came from those programs under Myrl Taylor and the other coaches from in and immediately around that city because from the mid to late 70's uprising of 139 pound Lemuel Steeples and the Spinks brothers, Leon and Michael, on up to the mid-1990's emergence of Leon's son, Corey Calvin (much better known as Corey Spinks), there were a ton of good amateur boxers out of the St. Louis program. I won't be able to name them all... but I can try.
Top 10 USA rated amateurs from there include three-time U.S. Champion Nick Kakouris and 1988 U.S. Olympian Arthur Johnson. The Finger brothers (twins), Terrel and Lavell. Ed Hopson. Boris Powell. 1983 Pan-American Games welterweight champion Louis Howard. Future WBA Bantam Champion Eddie Cook. 139 pound Randy Cross. 132 pound Darrick Robinson. 1988 USA/ABF National 125 pound Champion -and future WBA 154 pound Champion- Carl Daniels. 119 pound Stevie Young. Light heavy weight Paul Carlo. 165 pounder Arthur Jimmerson. Welterweight Michael Goodeau. 139 pounder Tony Martin. Featherweight Patrice Brooks. 132 pounder Marvin Chambers.
Future IBF Light heavyweight Champion William Guthrie won the National Golden Gloves in 1985, qualified for the U.S. Olympic Trials in both 1984 and 1988 and also captured the Ohio State Fair title in 1985.
St. Louis is also the home of former National Silver Gloves silver medalist (and future IBO 168 pound champion) Willie Ball.
In 1981 you had Brian Westmoreland (heavyweight), William Trendly (165), Vincent Webb (139 and 147), Billy White (132), James Cooper (125), Ronald Freeman (112), and Dolphin Moody (106) all break into the top ten amateur national rankings at one point or another.
Later on, Vincent Webb was the runner up to the great Cuban Candelario Duvergal at the 1982 North American Championships at 147.
Anthony Dean went all the way to the finals of the 1982 Ohio State Fair where he lost a decision to fellow St. Louis boxer Tony Pruitt at 119. Pruitt had won the Fair's 112 title just one year earlier when he defeated yet another St. Louis boxer, David Wade, in the finals.
1986 saw 178 pound Damon Saulberry advance to the finals of the National JO's while 1988 saw St. Louis native Stanley Lee qualify for the Olympic Trials in my 165 pound class by way of the U.S. Marines.
The only man to ever beat Mark Breland as an amateur boxed out of St. Louis. Darryl Anthony became the one and only at the 1981 USA Nationals on a decision.
You also had 125 pound featherweight Lamont Buchanon who won the 1982 Ohio State Fair by beating future (1988) U.S. Olympic middleweight Anthony Hembrick in the finals.
Light middleweight was a HOT class to be in during the 80's in St. Louis with several 156 pounders getting ranked in the national top 10, guys like Roy Richie, Paul James, L.C. Robinson, Steve Erhart, Ray Lathon, Alfred Mayes and Michael Cross. DeLancey Ray also excelled at 156, winning the National JO's in 1986.
119 pound Tony Hollis and 112 pound David Wade both advanced far into the 1981 Ohio State Fair tournament and at one point in 1987 St. Louis had THREE 139 pounders in the USA Top 10 in Nick Kakouris, Lavell Finger and Tony Robinson.
In the December 1985 edition of The Amateur Boxer magazine St. Louis boasted FOUR weight classes with a homegrown kid in the USA #1 spot: Arthur Johnson at 106, Eddie Cook at 112, Darrick Robinson at 132 and Nick Kakouris at 139. One city. FOUR # 1 rated amateurs at the same exact time.
The 1980's also saw St. Louis, Missouri boxers Alfred Mayes, Louis Howard, Arthur Jimmerson, Marvin Chambers, Arthur Johnson, William Guthrie, Lavell Finger, Carl Daniels, Ray Lathon and Boris Powell all take home National Golden Gloves titles.
I am sure I am even missing a few names but, any way you cut it, very few regions of this country have ever had the success that the greater St. Louis area did over the course of the 1980's. The records speak for themselves.
ICEMAN JOHN SCULLY
ST. LOUIS, Missouri:
Many boxing fans talk about New York, Detroit, Philly and Los Angeles as "the places to be" for boxers. Maybe so. They were all producing some great talent, that's undeniable. But I will tell you this: Very few cities or towns in this country can match the amateur boxing talent that came through the greater St. Louis, Missouri programs in the 1980's. I can't even think of ALL the good boxers that came from those programs under Myrl Taylor and the other coaches from in and immediately around that city because from the mid to late 70's uprising of 139 pound Lemuel Steeples and the Spinks brothers, Leon and Michael, on up to the mid-1990's emergence of Leon's son, Corey Calvin (much better known as Corey Spinks), there were a ton of good amateur boxers out of the St. Louis program. I won't be able to name them all... but I can try.
Top 10 USA rated amateurs from there include three-time U.S. Champion Nick Kakouris and 1988 U.S. Olympian Arthur Johnson. The Finger brothers (twins), Terrel and Lavell. Ed Hopson. Boris Powell. 1983 Pan-American Games welterweight champion Louis Howard. Future WBA Bantam Champion Eddie Cook. 139 pound Randy Cross. 132 pound Darrick Robinson. 1988 USA/ABF National 125 pound Champion -and future WBA 154 pound Champion- Carl Daniels. 119 pound Stevie Young. Light heavy weight Paul Carlo. 165 pounder Arthur Jimmerson. Welterweight Michael Goodeau. 139 pounder Tony Martin. Featherweight Patrice Brooks. 132 pounder Marvin Chambers.
Future IBF Light heavyweight Champion William Guthrie won the National Golden Gloves in 1985, qualified for the U.S. Olympic Trials in both 1984 and 1988 and also captured the Ohio State Fair title in 1985.
St. Louis is also the home of former National Silver Gloves silver medalist (and future IBO 168 pound champion) Willie Ball.
In 1981 you had Brian Westmoreland (heavyweight), William Trendly (165), Vincent Webb (139 and 147), Billy White (132), James Cooper (125), Ronald Freeman (112), and Dolphin Moody (106) all break into the top ten amateur national rankings at one point or another.
Later on, Vincent Webb was the runner up to the great Cuban Candelario Duvergal at the 1982 North American Championships at 147.
Anthony Dean went all the way to the finals of the 1982 Ohio State Fair where he lost a decision to fellow St. Louis boxer Tony Pruitt at 119. Pruitt had won the Fair's 112 title just one year earlier when he defeated yet another St. Louis boxer, David Wade, in the finals.
1986 saw 178 pound Damon Saulberry advance to the finals of the National JO's while 1988 saw St. Louis native Stanley Lee qualify for the Olympic Trials in my 165 pound class by way of the U.S. Marines.
The only man to ever beat Mark Breland as an amateur boxed out of St. Louis. Darryl Anthony became the one and only at the 1981 USA Nationals on a decision.
You also had 125 pound featherweight Lamont Buchanon who won the 1982 Ohio State Fair by beating future (1988) U.S. Olympic middleweight Anthony Hembrick in the finals.
Light middleweight was a HOT class to be in during the 80's in St. Louis with several 156 pounders getting ranked in the national top 10, guys like Roy Richie, Paul James, L.C. Robinson, Steve Erhart, Ray Lathon, Alfred Mayes and Michael Cross. DeLancey Ray also excelled at 156, winning the National JO's in 1986.
119 pound Tony Hollis and 112 pound David Wade both advanced far into the 1981 Ohio State Fair tournament and at one point in 1987 St. Louis had THREE 139 pounders in the USA Top 10 in Nick Kakouris, Lavell Finger and Tony Robinson.
In the December 1985 edition of The Amateur Boxer magazine St. Louis boasted FOUR weight classes with a homegrown kid in the USA #1 spot: Arthur Johnson at 106, Eddie Cook at 112, Darrick Robinson at 132 and Nick Kakouris at 139. One city. FOUR # 1 rated amateurs at the same exact time.
The 1980's also saw St. Louis, Missouri boxers Alfred Mayes, Louis Howard, Arthur Jimmerson, Marvin Chambers, Arthur Johnson, William Guthrie, Lavell Finger, Carl Daniels, Ray Lathon and Boris Powell all take home National Golden Gloves titles.
I am sure I am even missing a few names but, any way you cut it, very few regions of this country have ever had the success that the greater St. Louis area did over the course of the 1980's. The records speak for themselves.
Last edited by ICEMAN JOHN SCULLY on 24 Jul 2011, 21:35, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Hotbeds of amateur boxing in the U.S.
John Scully to the rescue!!! I have always read about boxers from St. Louis, but I didn't have all that info. Good job.
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ICEMAN JOHN SCULLY
- Heavyweight
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Re: Hotbeds of amateur boxing in the U.S.
No problem :)
Re: Hotbeds of amateur boxing in the U.S.
California has the last two guys to win Olympic Gold. I do remember St.Louis was really strong back n the day . I remember Ohio had a World Amatuers Champ at 165 I forget his name I think his last name was Allen I believe.
Re: Hotbeds of amateur boxing in the U.S.
Per the discussion of Amatuer Boxing Hotbeds in the USA, consider that OHIO is the only team in history to have won three straight National AAU, (now U.S. Amatuer)team Championships in 1973, 1974 and 1975. And they were runner-up in 1976. I, Calvin McClinton was a member of the Boston and Knoxville teams that included Hilmer Kenty, Aaron Pryor, Milton Seward, Roosevelt Green, Forest Winchester and Richard Rozelle.
Re: Hotbeds of amateur boxing in the U.S.
Additionally, I would be remiss not to mention that Vonzell Johnson of the Ohio AAU won both the National Golden Gloves and the National AAU middleweight championship in the same year (1974) Vonzell then went to Russia with the U.S. team where Soviet officiating is infamous for being biased and partisan to the home team. However, Vonzell shattered this concept by winning all three of his fights in the USSR which had been unprecedented until then. In contrast, at these same dual matches, Sugar Ray Leonard had apparently beaten his Russian counterpart so thoroughly that his opponent gave Leonard the winners trophy after everyone but the judges thought Ray had won.
Re: Hotbeds of amateur boxing in the U.S.
Re: Hotbeds of Amatuer Boxing:
The Ohio State Fair National Amateur boxing tournament in Columbus was founded by William G. "Bill" Cummings Jr. In 1967. Mr. Cummings was born in Toledo Ohio and had played football and graduated from The Ohio State University. He was a member of Woody Hayes' first National Championship team and played briefly for the Cleveland Browns.
William "Bill" Willis, a Columbus Ohio native had also played on National Championship teams at Ohio State and on the Cleveland Browns' NFL inaugural World Championship team. Willis was such a legend that he was inducted into both the College and Pro Hall of Fame.
Ohio governor, James A. Rhodes had appointed Willis to be the director of the Ohio Youth Commission and Willis selected Cummings to be the director of the novel Ohio Youth Commission Recreational Services programs.
Mr Cummings' office was located on the Ohio Expositions Commission/Ohio State Fairgrounds where he subsequently started an amateur boxing gym and named it the Invitational Boxing Club (IBC) The gym was in the former "Little Theater Building" where the Martin Janis Center is now located on 11th Avenue.
This gym would produce many champions including Hilmer Kenty, Jerry Page, Pete Seward, Forest Winchester, Darin Allen, Ronald Bosley and Calvin McClinton among many others.
Since it's inception in 1967, The Ohio State Fair tournament became one of the world's most prominent and important boxing events and its stage served as the launching pad for countless future Olympic, World Professional Champions and boxing legends including Hilmer Kenty, Jerry Page, Vonzell Johnson, Mike Johnson, Richard Rozelle, Aaron Pryor, Pernell Wittaker, James "Buster" Douglas, Earnie Shavers,
Mike Tyson, Tommy Hearns, Sugar Ray Leonard and many others too numerous to mention. The Ohio State Fair was considered as the third national tournament behind the National Golden Gloves and the National AAU. Mr. Cummings also founded the United States Amateur Boxers and Coaches Association (USABCA) the first organization to nationally rank American Amateur boxers with Thomas 'Sarge' Johnson as it's president. Mr. Cummings, also a member of the U.S. Olympic Commitee died in 1984 at the age of 50.
The Ohio State Fair National Amateur boxing tournament in Columbus was founded by William G. "Bill" Cummings Jr. In 1967. Mr. Cummings was born in Toledo Ohio and had played football and graduated from The Ohio State University. He was a member of Woody Hayes' first National Championship team and played briefly for the Cleveland Browns.
William "Bill" Willis, a Columbus Ohio native had also played on National Championship teams at Ohio State and on the Cleveland Browns' NFL inaugural World Championship team. Willis was such a legend that he was inducted into both the College and Pro Hall of Fame.
Ohio governor, James A. Rhodes had appointed Willis to be the director of the Ohio Youth Commission and Willis selected Cummings to be the director of the novel Ohio Youth Commission Recreational Services programs.
Mr Cummings' office was located on the Ohio Expositions Commission/Ohio State Fairgrounds where he subsequently started an amateur boxing gym and named it the Invitational Boxing Club (IBC) The gym was in the former "Little Theater Building" where the Martin Janis Center is now located on 11th Avenue.
This gym would produce many champions including Hilmer Kenty, Jerry Page, Pete Seward, Forest Winchester, Darin Allen, Ronald Bosley and Calvin McClinton among many others.
Since it's inception in 1967, The Ohio State Fair tournament became one of the world's most prominent and important boxing events and its stage served as the launching pad for countless future Olympic, World Professional Champions and boxing legends including Hilmer Kenty, Jerry Page, Vonzell Johnson, Mike Johnson, Richard Rozelle, Aaron Pryor, Pernell Wittaker, James "Buster" Douglas, Earnie Shavers,
Mike Tyson, Tommy Hearns, Sugar Ray Leonard and many others too numerous to mention. The Ohio State Fair was considered as the third national tournament behind the National Golden Gloves and the National AAU. Mr. Cummings also founded the United States Amateur Boxers and Coaches Association (USABCA) the first organization to nationally rank American Amateur boxers with Thomas 'Sarge' Johnson as it's president. Mr. Cummings, also a member of the U.S. Olympic Commitee died in 1984 at the age of 50.
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maurerbrian
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