Joe Frazier vs Deontay Wilder

[elmersalsa]

No Wilder is not the same size as Joe Louis. He's bigger.

Joe Louis is a better fighter than him in every way, shape and form.

You cannot see that? Are you blind? Do you need glasses or something?

Forget their records. Watch them both fight. Just watch them. If you don't see which one of them is the better fighter. Then congratulations, on talking a lot about the sport of Boxing, but never understanding what it is you're seeing.

Joe Louis as great as he was, even with his primitive skills, ain't beating someone as big as Deontay Wilder. The guy Wilder was at least way better than the stiffs like Primo Carnera, Abe Simon, Buddy Baer and Two Ton Tony Galento.

Put those guys in the ring with Wilder, and he knocks them out, one by one.

Wilder would beat Louis not because he is way more skilled. He beats Louis because he would be too big and strong. I would be thinking five times to fight a guy of Wilder's size.

By continuously referring to Joe Louis as having Primitive skills you prove yourself to be a complete idiot. You speak as if Wilder is more skilled than Joe Louis. A blind man can see that isn't the case.

If Wilder isn't more skilled than Joe Louis then why aren't Wilder's skills "primitive"

Can you read what I wrote? I have never said that Deontay Wilder had better skills than Joe Louis.

At one point, Wilder, at 6'6" weighed in 238lbs. Louis never passed 220. I don't think that Louis ever did more than 215lbs in his prime.

All I have said that he was bigger, stronger and taller. And Wilder can hit hard. Wilder could not have skills and still beat Louis. Why? He is too big and strong.

A shot by Wilder and bye-bye Joe Louis. That's how I see it, idiot.

[elmersalsa]

No Wilder is not the same size as Joe Louis. He's bigger.

Joe Louis is a better fighter than him in every way, shape and form.

You cannot see that? Are you blind? Do you need glasses or something?

Forget their records. Watch them both fight. Just watch them. If you don't see which one of them is the better fighter. Then congratulations, on talking a lot about the sport of Boxing, but never understanding what it is you're seeing.

Joe Louis as great as he was, even with his primitive skills, ain't beating someone as big as Deontay Wilder. The guy Wilder was at least way better than the stiffs like Primo Carnera, Abe Simon, Buddy Baer and Two Ton Tony Galento.

Put those guys in the ring with Wilder, and he knocks them out, one by one.

Wilder would beat Louis not because he is way more skilled. He beats Louis because he would be too big and strong. I would be thinking five times to fight a guy of Wilder's size.

Wilder isn't big, he's just a lanky beanpole.

He only weighs in the 210s at his best and he is the one with the primitive skills, not Joe Louis.

Deontay Wilder doesn't have great skills and still will whupp Joe Louis's behind. Louis would be too small for today's heavyweights.

[gilgamesh]

I think the subtleties of The Sweet Science might be over your head there elmer, but you certainly stick to your guns in an argument and refuse to learn a damn thing I'll give you that.

Not that that's a compliment.

[Syntax Error]

Joe Louis as great as he was, even with his primitive skills, ain't beating someone as big as Deontay Wilder. The guy Wilder was at least way better than the stiffs like Primo Carnera, Abe Simon, Buddy Baer and Two Ton Tony Galento.

Put those guys in the ring with Wilder, and he knocks them out, one by one.

Wilder would beat Louis not because he is way more skilled. He beats Louis because he would be too big and strong. I would be thinking five times to fight a guy of Wilder's size.

Wilder isn't big, he's just a lanky beanpole.

He only weighs in the 210s at his best and he is the one with the primitive skills, not Joe Louis.

Deontay Wilder doesn't have great skills and still will whupp Joe Louis's behind. Louis would be too small for today's heavyweights.

You seem to have this bizarre obsession about so-called primitive skills and somewhat bizarrely, you apply this notion to Joe Louis, one of, if not, the finest combination punchers in the division's history, with a jab from the ages?

[gilgamesh]

Wilder isn't big, he's just a lanky beanpole.

He only weighs in the 210s at his best and he is the one with the primitive skills, not Joe Louis.

Deontay Wilder doesn't have great skills and still will whupp Joe Louis's behind. Louis would be too small for today's heavyweights.

You seem to have this bizarre obsession about so-called primitive skills and somewhat bizarrely, you apply this notion to Joe Louis, one of, if not, the finest combination punchers in the division's history, with a jab from the ages?

He has primitive skills according to elmer because he fought in the 1930's and 1940's. Apparently no fighter from that era had skills. They didn't invent skills until 1964 or something

[Syntax Error]

Deontay Wilder doesn't have great skills and still will whupp Joe Louis's behind. Louis would be too small for today's heavyweights.

You seem to have this bizarre obsession about so-called primitive skills and somewhat bizarrely, you apply this notion to Joe Louis, one of, if not, the finest combination punchers in the division's history, with a jab from the ages?

He has primitive skills according to elmer because he fought in the 1930's and 1940's. Apparently no fighter from that era had skills. They didn't invent skills until 1964 or something

Seems that way.

[elmersalsa]

Wilder isn't big, he's just a lanky beanpole.

He only weighs in the 210s at his best and he is the one with the primitive skills, not Joe Louis.

Deontay Wilder doesn't have great skills and still will whupp Joe Louis's behind. Louis would be too small for today's heavyweights.

You seem to have this bizarre obsession about so-called primitive skills and somewhat bizarrely, you apply this notion to Joe Louis, one of, if not, the finest combination punchers in the division's history, with a jab from the ages?

Look at his fight with Max Schmeling in 1936. That's primitive skills, buddy. Look how Schmeling knocked him out.

Joe Louis was great for THAT TIME. He cannot have those skills and that chin today and believe that he would have whupped giants like Anthony Joshua, Deontay Wilder or Tyson Fury. C'mon, bruh! You got to be realistic.

The discrepancy in height, reach and weight is enormous. These heavyweights today are in better condition, have better nutrition, better equipment, are stronger, taller and have many other advantages and adjustments from the guys that fought 80 years plus ago.

Louis was dropped by Two Ton Tony Galento for crying out loud!

Do you really believe that 5'7", 230lbs Two Ton Tony Galento would drop 6'6", 265lbs Anthony Joshua? Or drop Deontay Wilder, the Klitschko brothers or Tyson Fury?

[gilgamesh]

Deontay Wilder doesn't have great skills and still will whupp Joe Louis's behind. Louis would be too small for today's heavyweights.

You seem to have this bizarre obsession about so-called primitive skills and somewhat bizarrely, you apply this notion to Joe Louis, one of, if not, the finest combination punchers in the division's history, with a jab from the ages?

Look at his fight with Max Schmeling in 1936. That's primitive skills, buddy. Look how Schmeling knocked him out.

Joe Louis was great for THAT TIME. He cannot have those skills and that chin today and believe that he would have whupped giants like Anthony Joshua, Deontay Wilder or Tyson Fury. C'mon, bruh! You got to be realistic.

The discrepancy in height, reach and weight is enormous. These heavyweights today are in better condition, have better nutrition, better equipment, are stronger, taller and have many other advantages and adjustments from the guys that fought 80 years plus ago.

Louis was dropped by Two Ton Tony Galento for crying out loud!

Do you really believe that 5'7", 230lbs Two Ton Tony Galento would drop 6'6", 265lbs Anthony Joshua? Or drop Deontay Wilder, the Klitschko brothers or Tyson Fury?

With all this back and forth you've proven beyond doubt how worthless your opinion of the Top 100 P4P of all time is. You don't know how to assess Boxing.

[elmersalsa]

You seem to have this bizarre obsession about so-called primitive skills and somewhat bizarrely, you apply this notion to Joe Louis, one of, if not, the finest combination punchers in the division's history, with a jab from the ages?

Look at his fight with Max Schmeling in 1936. That's primitive skills, buddy. Look how Schmeling knocked him out.

Joe Louis was great for THAT TIME. He cannot have those skills and that chin today and believe that he would have whupped giants like Anthony Joshua, Deontay Wilder or Tyson Fury. C'mon, bruh! You got to be realistic.

The discrepancy in height, reach and weight is enormous. These heavyweights today are in better condition, have better nutrition, better equipment, are stronger, taller and have many other advantages and adjustments from the guys that fought 80 years plus ago.

Louis was dropped by Two Ton Tony Galento for crying out loud!

Do you really believe that 5'7", 230lbs Two Ton Tony Galento would drop 6'6", 265lbs Anthony Joshua? Or drop Deontay Wilder, the Klitschko brothers or Tyson Fury?

With all this back and forth you've proven beyond doubt how worthless your opinion of the Top 100 P4P of all time is. You don't know how to assess Boxing.

Neither do you.

[Ambling Alp II]

You do realize by saying that, you are admitting that you yourself don't know how to assess boxing?
But you probably aren't smart enough to figure that out.

We all don't agree on everything. It would be boring if we did. But almost everyone that participates on this forum are much less biased, much less hypocritical, and much more reasonable that you.

[gilgamesh]

You do realize by saying that, you are admitting that you yourself don't know how to assess boxing?
But you probably aren't smart enough to figure that out.

We all don't agree on everything. It would be boring if we did. But almost everyone that participates on this forum are much less biased, much less hypocritical, and much more reasonable that you.

I give him some slack on some stuff. English isn't the first language you learn in Panama.

[Syntax Error]

Deontay Wilder doesn't have great skills and still will whupp Joe Louis's behind. Louis would be too small for today's heavyweights.

You seem to have this bizarre obsession about so-called primitive skills and somewhat bizarrely, you apply this notion to Joe Louis, one of, if not, the finest combination punchers in the division's history, with a jab from the ages?

Look at his fight with Max Schmeling in 1936. That's primitive skills, buddy. Look how Schmeling knocked him out.

Joe Louis was great for THAT TIME. He cannot have those skills and that chin today and believe that he would have whupped giants like Anthony Joshua, Deontay Wilder or Tyson Fury. C'mon, bruh! You got to be realistic.

The discrepancy in height, reach and weight is enormous. These heavyweights today are in better condition, have better nutrition, better equipment, are stronger, taller and have many other advantages and adjustments from the guys that fought 80 years plus ago.

Louis was dropped by Two Ton Tony Galento for crying out loud!

Do you really believe that 5'7", 230lbs Two Ton Tony Galento would drop 6'6", 265lbs Anthony Joshua? Or drop Deontay Wilder, the Klitschko brothers or Tyson Fury?

So, it's height that you're really obsessed with?

On that basis, Galento was 6 inches shorter than Louis, so why couldn't Louis, who was about 6 inches shorter than Wilder is, knock him down?

Mike Tyson never had trouble knocking out guys who were sometimes as much 8 inches taller than him.

Height don't maketh a great fighter.

[elmersalsa]

You seem to have this bizarre obsession about so-called primitive skills and somewhat bizarrely, you apply this notion to Joe Louis, one of, if not, the finest combination punchers in the division's history, with a jab from the ages?

Look at his fight with Max Schmeling in 1936. That's primitive skills, buddy. Look how Schmeling knocked him out.

Joe Louis was great for THAT TIME. He cannot have those skills and that chin today and believe that he would have whupped giants like Anthony Joshua, Deontay Wilder or Tyson Fury. C'mon, bruh! You got to be realistic.

The discrepancy in height, reach and weight is enormous. These heavyweights today are in better condition, have better nutrition, better equipment, are stronger, taller and have many other advantages and adjustments from the guys that fought 80 years plus ago.

Louis was dropped by Two Ton Tony Galento for crying out loud!

Do you really believe that 5'7", 230lbs Two Ton Tony Galento would drop 6'6", 265lbs Anthony Joshua? Or drop Deontay Wilder, the Klitschko brothers or Tyson Fury?

So, it's height that you're really obsessed with?

On that basis, Galento was 6 inches shorter than Louis, so why couldn't Louis, who was about 6 inches shorter than Wilder is, knock him down?

Mike Tyson never had trouble knocking out guys who were sometimes as much 8 inches taller than him.

Height don't maketh a great fighter.

Mike Tyson had better chin than Joe Louis and Tony Galento.

Mike Tyson was faster than Louis.
Tyson weighed in around 215-220lbs in his prime.
Tyson had skills and was very good.
Tyson can hit.
Tyson would also crush Louis. I don't trust Louis' chin for nothing.

[elmersalsa]

You do realize by saying that, you are admitting that you yourself don't know how to assess boxing?
But you probably aren't smart enough to figure that out.

We all don't agree on everything. It would be boring if we did. But almost everyone that participates on this forum are much less biased, much less hypocritical, and much more reasonable that you.

I call things like I see it. I am a realistic. You're not realistic. You believe that a guy that barely makes 200lbs in his prime with those primitive skills like Joe Louis, that was dropped and rocked by fighters that were smaller than he, would beat the giants of today that are much bigger, much stronger, better conditioned, have better equipment and nutrition and are too tall and weigh in more than 260lbs.

I don't think that Louis would be a contender in today's heavyweight scene. Not with those primitive skills. Not with that chin. And definitely not with that weight.

Michael Spinks had to change his whole training regimen to compete with the heavyweights. He barely beat an old Larry Holmes. It was a great win nonetheless. But, look at the work and regimen that he had to do to win the Heavyweight crown. Louis would have to bulk up like Evander Holyfield did. He is not winning with that weight and definitely not with that chin.

You're a biased too. Especially when it comes to Sugar Ray Leonard.

I think that I know what I am talking about. It's not for you or anyone else to agree or disagree. This is a forum.

[elmersalsa]

You do realize by saying that, you are admitting that you yourself don't know how to assess boxing?
But you probably aren't smart enough to figure that out.

We all don't agree on everything. It would be boring if we did. But almost everyone that participates on this forum are much less biased, much less hypocritical, and much more reasonable that you.

I give him some slack on some stuff. English isn't the first language you learn in Panama.

You better speak another language. You probably speak Hindu.

[Ambling Alp II]

You think he speaks Hindu? huh?

[Ambling Alp II]

You do realize by saying that, you are admitting that you yourself don't know how to assess boxing?
But you probably aren't smart enough to figure that out.

We all don't agree on everything. It would be boring if we did. But almost everyone that participates on this forum are much less biased, much less hypocritical, and much more reasonable that you.

I call things like I see it. I am a realistic. You're not realistic. You believe that a guy that barely makes 200lbs in his prime with those primitive skills like Joe Louis, that was dropped and rocked by fighters that were smaller than he, would beat the giants of today that are much bigger, much stronger, better conditioned, have better equipment and nutrition and are too tall and weigh in more than 260lbs.

I don't think that Louis would be a contender in today's heavyweight scene. Not with those primitive skills. Not with that chin. And definitely not with that weight.

Michael Spinks had to change his whole training regimen to compete with the heavyweights. He barely beat an old Larry Holmes. It was a great win nonetheless. But, look at the work and regimen that he had to do to win the Heavyweight crown. Louis would have to bulk up like Evander Holyfield did. He is not winning with that weight and definitely not with that chin.

You're a biased too. Especially when it comes to Sugar Ray Leonard.

I think that I know what I am talking about. It's not for you or anyone else to agree or disagree. This is a forum.

Louis had better skills the heavyweights of today. You yourself have admitted that his skills are better than Joshua. Have you ever seen Fury fight? How many skills does he have that are better than Louis?

That chin? Louis got stopped twice in 71 fights. One was when he was 37 years old. 5 of times that he was knocked down was after he came back from World War II. You have excuses for your favorites always being past their prime yet you count anything bad against Louis no matter how far past his prime he was.

Your Michael Spinks argument is stupid. Spinks a light heavyweight. He to gain 25 pounds to get to 200. And he won. Louis doesn't have to gain 25 pounds. to get to 200.
And you ignoring the fact that Wilder really didn't weigh much more Louis for most of his career.

You keep saying that one punch and it's over for Louis against Wilder. Did it ever occur to you that Louis might nail him first, which is far more likely?

Better nutrition and conditioning? Take a look at some of these guys. Fury and Ruis are all fat. These guys have to fight at very slow pace to go 12 rounds. Louis fought at a faster pace and had to go 15 rounds.

I'm biased towards Leonard? I don't make crybaby excuses for him. You make crybaby excuses for Duran and your favorites.

But again, all of this does involve you thinking. Something that you don't like to do.

[elmersalsa]

You do realize by saying that, you are admitting that you yourself don't know how to assess boxing?
But you probably aren't smart enough to figure that out.

We all don't agree on everything. It would be boring if we did. But almost everyone that participates on this forum are much less biased, much less hypocritical, and much more reasonable that you.

I call things like I see it. I am a realistic. You're not realistic. You believe that a guy that barely makes 200lbs in his prime with those primitive skills like Joe Louis, that was dropped and rocked by fighters that were smaller than he, would beat the giants of today that are much bigger, much stronger, better conditioned, have better equipment and nutrition and are too tall and weigh in more than 260lbs.

I don't think that Louis would be a contender in today's heavyweight scene. Not with those primitive skills. Not with that chin. And definitely not with that weight.

Michael Spinks had to change his whole training regimen to compete with the heavyweights. He barely beat an old Larry Holmes. It was a great win nonetheless. But, look at the work and regimen that he had to do to win the Heavyweight crown. Louis would have to bulk up like Evander Holyfield did. He is not winning with that weight and definitely not with that chin.

You're a biased too. Especially when it comes to Sugar Ray Leonard.

I think that I know what I am talking about. It's not for you or anyone else to agree or disagree. This is a forum.

Louis had better skills the heavyweights of today. You yourself have admitted that his skills are better than Joshua. Have you ever seen Fury fight? How many skills does he have that are better than Louis?

That chin? Louis got stopped twice in 71 fights. One was when he was 37 years old. 5 of times that he was knocked down was after he came back from World War II. You have excuses for your favorites always being past their prime yet you count anything bad against Louis no matter how far past his prime he was.

Your Michael Spinks argument is stupid. Spinks a light heavyweight. He to gain 25 pounds to get to 200. And he won. Louis doesn't have to gain 25 pounds. to get to 200.
And you ignoring the fact that Wilder really didn't weigh much more Louis for most of his career.

You keep saying that one punch and it's over for Louis against Wilder. Did it ever occur to you that Louis might nail him first, which is far more likely?

Better nutrition and conditioning? Take a look at some of these guys. Fury and Ruis are all fat. These guys have to fight at very slow pace to go 12 rounds. Louis fought at a faster pace and had to go 15 rounds.

I'm biased towards Leonard? I don't make crybaby excuses for him. You make crybaby excuses for Duran and your favorites.

But again, all of this does involve you thinking. Something that you don't like to do.

Do you really believe that I like these heavyweights today? Not one bit. Their skills are so terrible sound. But, at least they were better than Joe Louis' Bum of the Month opponents. They were stiffs that didn't know how to fight nor use their bigger bodies for an advantage.

Tyson Fury, Anthony Joshua and Deontay Wilder would use their bigger bodies and wear Louis down. I cannot phantom Louis knocking out these guys. These guys are too big, too strong and good. Not great like Riddick Bowe or Lennox Lewis, but good at least.

Joe Louis may have better skills even if they were primitive. Louis might've much more speed. He probably would have had much more talent. But the difference in height and reach and weight between him and those giants is INSANE.

I am not alone of what I am talking about. Go to other forums. It would not be farfetched, but logical about a match between these giants against Louis. Many of them will tell you the same I am saying. So, they are dumb too?


Why my argument of the great Michael Spinks is stupid? Spinks is the same height that Louis was. And he was almost the same weight as Louis. Spinks had to change his whole training regimen just to compete and beat an old Larry Holmes. He barely beat him. He was using modern technology to succeed.

Just like the great Evander Holyfield. He knew that he just couldn't compete with those heavyweights of the 80s and 90s with just adding pounds. He had to change his whole training regimen to get to the top. And he was still small to some heavyweights like Bowe and Lewis.

Now, Joe Louis, the great Brown Bomber, with his primitive training methods and skills would beat these giants that are bigger than the ones of the 90s decade? No way! Louis would have to bulk up just like Holyfield or Spinks, then he maybe, maybe has a chance.

And now, with Sugar Ray Leonard. I ain't gonna go there. I am tired of going there with you about our favorite boxer.

[Tony1244]

Frazier KO or TKO 4, 5, 6th round, Somewhere in there.