A Question about Ray Robinson's chin

[gilgamesh]

So when we as boxing fans think of all time great chins, or toughest guys. Some of the first names that come to mind for many of us are Jake Lamotta, Randall "Texx" Cobb, George Chuvalo.

But why isn't Ray Robinson mentioned in that same conversation as having one of the all time greatest chins?

Lamotta was stopped 4 times in 106 fights

Robinson was stopped once in 201 fights.

Robinson's stoppage loss was due to heat exhaustion, he was not actually knocked down or stopped by punches.

Robinson was knocked down sometimes in his career, mostly toward the tail end of it when he was well past his best, but he always got up.

So when we think of all time great chins. Why isn't Robinson one of the first names that comes up?

[JC]

I would say it's due to the amounts of punishment they took.

LaMotta, Cobb, and Chuvalo took insane amounts of punishment without getting knocked out (for the most part), often against the hardest punchers of their era.

Robinson definitely had an ATG chin but, even in his losses, he wasn’t often on the receiving end of brutal beatings.

I think everyone agrees guys like Robinson, Ali, Gavilan had some of the best chins ever, but since they weren't relying on their chins for defence it's not as stark.

[Caractacus]

well, he was rarely hit on the chin (at least solidly0 during his entire boxing career was he ?
BTW check out the punch that decked him in the fight with Rocky Graziano.
Graziano's punch came just a split second earlier and in a tight arc
when Robinson was in the corner turning around and throwing his own punch in a tight arc simultaesly.

[goose 5]

Artie Levine and Rocky Castellani had Robinson down and hurt bad. Tommy Bell dropped him on his face in their title bout.

[gilgamesh]

Artie Levine and Rocky Castellani had Robinson down and hurt bad. Tommy Bell dropped him on his face in their title bout.

And he got up and won all those fights did he not?

He could be hurt of course. He was human, but he was never stopped by an opponents punches. Not once.

[gilgamesh]

well, he was rarely hit on the chin (at least solidly0 during his entire boxing career was he ?
BTW check out the punch that decked him in the fight with Rocky Graziano.
Graziano's punch came just a split second earlier and in a tight arc
when Robinson was in the corner turning around and throwing his own punch in a tight arc simultaesly.

I watched that just the other day actually. I can't say he wasn't hit on the chin solidly often. He engaged in slugfests with his opponents many times. He was a skillful operator, but he wasn't Willie Pep or Pernell Whitaker. He took a lot of punches, and even when he fought on well beyond his prime still nobody could stop him.

[goose 5]

My point was to respond to the comment that Robinson was rarely hit. I didn't mean to cast aspersions on Robinson's chin.

[Ambling Alp II]

It is almost impossible to be a great offensive fighter and a great defensive fighter. (Ali in his prime extremely rare.) If you are a great offensive fighter, you have to take some chances and get hit once in a while. I think that was the case with Robinson. He was a great offensive fighter, and a very good but not great defensive fighter. He (and a few others) probably could have chosen to fight more cautiously and have been considered great defensive fighters and but not great offensive fighters.

As mentioned, Robinson fought an extremely high number of fights. And he fought literally dozens of fights against great fighters and many against very good fighters. Naturally he was going to get hurt and/or knocked down once in a while. He obviously had to have had a great chin mor he would have stopped many times.

[Jeff_lacy_ko]

He has a primitive chin
Had he fought in later eras he would have shattered like an egg at a bakery

[Ambling Alp II]

Given that boxing magically got better in the 1960s and was no longer primituve, it is interesting that Robinson did as well as he did given that he was in 40s.

[Caractacus]

He has a primitive chin
Had he fought in later eras he would have shattered like an egg at a bakery

.
Boxers back in the old days just about all had good chins.
Matter of fact. its the boxers over last 30 years who have
a 'chink" in their chins.
I don't think Deontay Wilder would have had
even half as many 'knock-outs" on his ring record if he had fought in the 1970's.

[goose 5]

I believe that overall the fighters of the 40's were better than the guys from the 60's. So, I disagree strongly with his "primitive" argument. Having said that, why do you suggest that he thinks boxing "magically" got better ?That's not his contention at all. He's arguing that it got better over time.

[Caractacus]

Back in the 'old Days' fighters use to chew "pine tar' to strengthen their jaw muscles.
Can you image people doing that today ?
with all the soft food ,candy and soda they drink during their lifetime.
There teeth would probably be extracted directly right out of their jaw-bones just chewing the stuff.

[Ambling Alp II]

I believe that overall the fighters of the 40's were better than the guys from the 60's. So, I disagree strongly with his "primitive" argument. Having said that, why do you suggest that he thinks boxing "magically" got better ?That's not his contention at all. He's arguing that it got better over time.

He has said several times (on different threads) that before the 1960s boxers had primitive skills.

[goose 5]

Yes, he has. But you framed his argument by using the word "magically". he's not contending that boxing got better all at once, as if by "magic". I agree with you that he's wrong but you should at least refute his actual argument.

[Ambling Alp II]

He never used the word "magically". I was being sarcastic. But he has said that it started in the 1960s. Fighters before that had "primitive skills". I think he was saying that it pretty much all started at once.

[pound per pound]

I would say it's due to the amounts of punishment they took.

LaMotta, Cobb, and Chuvalo took insane amounts of punishment without getting knocked out (for the most part), often against the hardest punchers of their era.

Robinson definitely had an ATG chin but, even in his losses, he wasn’t often on the receiving end of brutal beatings.

I think everyone agrees guys like Robinson, Ali, Gavilan had some of the best chins ever, but since they weren't relying on their chins for defence it's not as stark.

.

Chuvalo and Cobb had very good ones. So did Vitaly Klitschko..

Grading  boxing chins is best done when they are hit. Defense matters as the fighter with a good one gets less.. So does will power.  And conditioning. LaMotta's chin, heart and conditioning were tested with far more. Robinson has an excellent chin too, but it's upper limits were not tested.