Importance of Domestic Clashes

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 23 Sep 2006, 07:25

With Calzaghe and Woods at 168-75, and at 140 Witter and Hatton doing well, why do we want to see them against the other? When we could see them against other peers from diferent countries?

Obviously we want to see the best Brits take on one another below world level. But how important is it to see the best of Britain tackle one another when they are genuine world class forces?

My view is that it's still important - from the bottom right to the top. There is a real pasion and intensity in British boxing at its best. When you put a major title and reputations on the line something memrable really can happen.

Obviously it helps cultivate British viewers as well

ironically, in the days of Eubank, Benn, Watson & then Collins, they wouldn't fight many fighters from other countries (Benn notwithstanding). Now it is probably more likely that Witter fights Lazcano on a Golden Boy show, Hatton has agreed to take on urango & Castillo, Woods wants American light heavies and Calzaghe - who will feel pissed off when kessler has two belts - I believe will take on Kessler (approved by HBO, if the two Oct 14 shows are good)

Deram · Post by **Deram** » 24 Sep 2006, 00:15

"WHEN Kessler has two belts". LOL

Yes, Kessler is favorite, but we also all said WHEN Judah beats Baldomir or when Peter beats Wlad...

In a unification fight we cannot just assume that one of the champs will win as if he was some journeyman.

Yeah, I am a Kessler fan and think he will win, but I certainly have respect for our current WBC champ. He has far more experience than Kessler and another thing that worries me is that his promoter has far far more money than Kessler's camp and money can get you a lot of things.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 24 Sep 2006, 04:17

Deram wrote:"WHEN Kessler has two belts". LOL

Yes, Kessler is favorite, but we also all said WHEN Judah beats Baldomir or when Peter beats Wlad...

In a unification fight we cannot just assume that one of the champs will win as if he was some journeyman.

Yeah, I am a Kessler fan and think he will win, but I certainly have respect for our current WBC champ. He has far more experience than Kessler and another thing that worries me is that his promoter has far far more money than Kessler's camp and money can get you a lot of things.

I respect Beyer and give him a chance. Bika was outjabbing Beyer and I think Sakio was goimng to knock him out by the late rounds. Kessler has the best jab at any weight

pasty_spud · Post by **pasty_spud** » 24 Sep 2006, 06:13

when we have these domestic dust ups we often here the cry that it means nothing in america,they aren't interested...

so fcuking what!!!!

if we have 2 world champs that want to step in together i don't care if it's of interest to the americans or not... whats it got to do with them?

take hatton v witter, 60k+ at the city of manchester plus potential record sky ppv numbers....it's the biggest fight that could be made,anywhere in the world..

the world of boxing won't crumble if the americans are'nt involved..

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 24 Sep 2006, 07:40

Domestic matches are hugely important, but they have got to be held at the right time.

People were glammering for a Witter vs Hatton fight 4-5 years ago.... if it does happen, bet those people are glad it hasn't happend before. Pretty much now it is at maximum potential. I do think Witter needs one low key (i.e. easy) win before Hatton, I would put a bet that the number of boxrec poster who think Witter can beat Hatton, is down on what it was say 5 fights back when Junior was KO'ing credible European opposition.

Same with Woods vs Calzaghe, I'm sure people are glad that Woods has got the IBF belt before a match with Calzaghe.

Domestic matches are great, but its got to be a maximum potential. The Light Middle's of 2002 were always likely to fall short at World class (and even European class) - so they should have fought well before hand.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 24 Sep 2006, 10:09

pasty_spud wrote:when we have these domestic dust ups we often here the cry that it means nothing in america,they aren't interested...

so fcuking what!!!!

if we have 2 world champs that want to step in together i don't care if it's of interest to the americans or not... whats it got to do with them?

take hatton v witter, 60k+ at the city of manchester plus potential record sky ppv numbers....it's the biggest fight that could be made,anywhere in the world..

the world of boxing won't crumble if the americans are'nt involved..

true, America isn't the only market. If there is a market for it in the UK, then it is idiotic not to take advantage of that. a lot of ppl want Calzaghe-Woods, and obviously Hatton-Witter has been in demand for years. I mean how can the 2 best in the country not fight? Just imagine the atmosphere. If Witter & hatton ae both title holders next year, then it's a slap in the face for any Uk fans if it doesn't happen.

Failing that, I wouldn't say no to Witter-Bami (easy win) or Witter Olusegun (would be a great fight)

Personally, I'm looking forward to Cook-Harrison as much as Harrison-Marquez.

pasty_spud · Post by **pasty_spud** » 24 Sep 2006, 11:12

reguarding witter v hattton.........

i'm glad they didn't fight 3/4/5 years ago...for the greater good of british boxing i'd rather both of them were world champions.....now they are.. lets get it on...

a hatton v witter fight on gates/ppv money is worth atleast £10/15 million (nearly $20/25 million).......thats awesome!!!!!!!!!!!

thats DLH/PBF MONEY.....FOR A DOMESTIC SCRAP

LETS HAVE IT

E · Post by E » 24 Sep 2006, 13:00

yeah - bring back bid domestic clashes. That is when the public really get interested. They have good knowledge and access to the fighters

EG Kaylor-Christie, Eubank-Benn, Benn-Watson, Watson-Eubank etc

Andy Mac · Post by **Andy Mac** » 24 Sep 2006, 21:28

Without meaning to sound pedantic, 2 simple questions.
Why is Nigel Benn D J ing on the Costa????
Why was Chris Eubank recently bankrupted?
So much for them battling it out twice in front of 20 million people on terrestrial TV. Fro the sake of argument lets imagine Hatton / Witter comes off. Where does the loser go? Begging cap in hand to the American networks for another chance? I doubt it. It is naive to think that fighters do not need American TV to succeed in this day and age.

Goz · Post by **Goz** » 25 Sep 2006, 05:12

Andy, I'm sure Benn & Eubank earned enough money to be financially secure.

I think Benn is DJ'ing for something to do and because he likes it (no idea if he's any good) and Eubank was a bit silly and extravagent and chucked money away on ill-fated investments.

Was watching Eubank-Benn 1 the other night on ESPN classics, what an atmosphere and intensitiy of a fight. Been a long time since British boxing had a night like that, certainly in terms of a domestic matchup anyway.

Hatton-Tszyu and Calzaghe-Lacy were throwback kind of nights but a good domestic rivalry really polarizes opinion and allegience.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 25 Sep 2006, 06:29

I think it's crucial to have our best Brits fighting each other. I mean, before this year, I felt very 'alienated' from the best British fighters. Not at all involved in what was happening. I seem to not give a damn about any of these (admittedly good) fighters unless they're having a quality fight. I mean, I've been indifferent to Nicky Cook, but now he's fighting Harrison I find myself compelled to follow his career more.

Similar with Enzo Macca. I remember so many showcase fights. Sure he had a good one with Bruce Scott, but I didn't really get interested till he fought Hobson in one of the best British fights ever,

Andy Mac · Post by **Andy Mac** » 25 Sep 2006, 09:00

Goz wrote:Andy, I'm sure Benn & Eubank earned enough money to be financially secure.

I think Benn is DJ'ing for something to do and because he likes it (no idea if he's any good) and Eubank was a bit silly and extravagent and chucked money away on ill-fated investments.

Was watching Eubank-Benn 1 the other night on ESPN classics, what an atmosphere and intensitiy of a fight. Been a long time since British boxing had a night like that, certainly in terms of a domestic matchup anyway.

Hatton-Tszyu and Calzaghe-Lacy were throwback kind of nights but a good domestic rivalry really polarizes opinion and allegience.

I totally agree that good domestic matches are a good thing in principal, and that they polarise opinion and allegience. I also strongly believe that it is wishful thinking at best to hope they take precedence over international contests. Since corporate type money has come into all sports at the highest level, not just boxing it is again a bit niave to expect the better fighters to accomodate domestic fans wishes, over mega purses for the same or less risk.

TheRiverCityHippy · Post by **TheRiverCityHippy** » 25 Sep 2006, 09:25

Andy Mac wrote:
Goz wrote:Andy, I'm sure Benn & Eubank earned enough money to be financially secure.

I think Benn is DJ'ing for something to do and because he likes it (no idea if he's any good) and Eubank was a bit silly and extravagent and chucked money away on ill-fated investments.

Was watching Eubank-Benn 1 the other night on ESPN classics, what an atmosphere and intensitiy of a fight. Been a long time since British boxing had a night like that, certainly in terms of a domestic matchup anyway.

Hatton-Tszyu and Calzaghe-Lacy were throwback kind of nights but a good domestic rivalry really polarizes opinion and allegience.
I totally agree that good domestic matches are a good thing in principal, and that they polarise opinion and allegience. I also strongly believe that it is wishful thinking at best to hope they take precedence over international contests. Since corporate type money has come into all sports at the highest level, not just boxing it is again a bit niave to expect the better fighters to accomodate domestic fans wishes, over mega purses for the same or less risk.

i know the game is all about money andy, and rightly so, fella`s dont want to get punched for peanuts but i think there`s a fine balance.
big domestic fights get people interested in the sport again, unless it involved a brit the average man in the street wouldnt recognise a big international contest these days unless it bit them on the arse.
you could walk into a pub and ask a load of fella`s who oscar delahoya is and they`d probably say `a boxer`. then ask them if they could name one fella he`d fought.
boxing has got to start winning a new fanbase again and genuine local rivalry`s between boxers who are well matched is the way to go.
a lot of younger fans couldnt be blamed for thinking boxing is all about blow outs because thats all we have seen for the past 15 years really.
a lot of younger lads like watching mma because at least its competative.

Andy Mac · Post by **Andy Mac** » 25 Sep 2006, 17:44

headhunter wrote:
Andy Mac wrote:
Goz wrote:Andy, I'm sure Benn & Eubank earned enough money to be financially secure.

I think Benn is DJ'ing for something to do and because he likes it (no idea if he's any good) and Eubank was a bit silly and extravagent and chucked money away on ill-fated investments.

Was watching Eubank-Benn 1 the other night on ESPN classics, what an atmosphere and intensitiy of a fight. Been a long time since British boxing had a night like that, certainly in terms of a domestic matchup anyway.

Hatton-Tszyu and Calzaghe-Lacy were throwback kind of nights but a good domestic rivalry really polarizes opinion and allegience.
I totally agree that good domestic matches are a good thing in principal, and that they polarise opinion and allegience. I also strongly believe that it is wishful thinking at best to hope they take precedence over international contests. Since corporate type money has come into all sports at the highest level, not just boxing it is again a bit niave to expect the better fighters to accomodate domestic fans wishes, over mega purses for the same or less risk.
i know the game is all about money andy, and rightly so, fella`s dont want to get punched for peanuts but i think there`s a fine balance.
big domestic fights get people interested in the sport again, unless it involved a brit the average man in the street wouldnt recognise a big international contest these days unless it bit them on the arse.
you could walk into a pub and ask a load of fella`s who oscar delahoya is and they`d probably say `a boxer`. then ask them if they could name one fella he`d fought.
boxing has got to start winning a new fanbase again and genuine local rivalry`s between boxers who are well matched is the way to go.
a lot of younger fans couldnt be blamed for thinking boxing is all about blow outs because thats all we have seen for the past 15 years really.
a lot of younger lads like watching mma because at least its competative.

There is not one word in your post HH that i would dare argue with. I like you believe that 90% of fights are just blowouts. This is why we salivate about 2 or 3 times a year when we get true match ups between to top notch fighters. I hope you are right with your wishes that more local / national match ups is the answer, but i cant help thinking that the huge money in the sport these days will stop that, due to fighters doing everything they can to protect the 0 at the end of their records. I actually worry that sooner rather than later boxing will go like football, out of the financial reach of most ordinary fans.

Goz · Post by **Goz** » 25 Sep 2006, 18:53

headhunter wrote: you could walk into a pub and ask a load of fella`s who oscar delahoya is and they`d probably say `a boxer`. then ask them if they could name one fella he`d fought

I'd actually take that a step further and say that Oscar De La Hoya, Bernard Hopkins, Shane Mosely and Floyd Mayweather could walk into many pubs in the UK, order 4 pints (or one of those pitchers because you get 5 pints and Bernard has technically retired now so he might fancy the spare pint if he's drinking quickly) sit down at a table and be completely ignored and unrecognized.

Which is astounding.

Don't know what this has got to do with domestic match-ups so I'll shut up but HH's comment just got me thinking about the amusing of the aforementioned quarter of boxing megastars sitting down in the corner of my local with nobody giving a fornicate.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 25 Sep 2006, 20:31

Goz wrote:
headhunter wrote: you could walk into a pub and ask a load of fella`s who oscar delahoya is and they`d probably say `a boxer`. then ask them if they could name one fella he`d fought
I'd actually take that a step further and say that Oscar De La Hoya, Bernard Hopkins, Shane Mosely and Floyd Mayweather could walk into many pubs in the UK, order 4 pints (or one of those pitchers because you get 5 pints and Bernard has technically retired now so he might fancy the spare pint if he's drinking quickly) sit down at a table and be completely ignored and unrecognized.

Which is astounding.

Don't know what this has got to do with domestic match-ups so I'll shut up but HH's comment just got me thinking about the amusing of the aforementioned quarter of boxing megastars sitting down in the corner of my local with nobody giving a smeg.

Thats what the lack of national TV exposure does, do you think Halger, Leonard, Hearns and Duran could have done that in the 80's - over here.

Goz · Post by **Goz** » 26 Sep 2006, 03:52

Defitely not.

They didn't really do those 5 pint pitchers in the 80's