Greater Fighter: Harry Greb or Sugar Ray Robinson?

[Expug]

So it’s your stance that Duran had no say so whatsoever, he had to fight. And, he came into the fight out of shape, quit in the eighth round, and he’s not responsible for any of this. It’s all a sham to bring the title back to America? In other words, it’s everyone else’s fault? That’s your position?

[Expug]

And the bottom line is, Duran could’ve partied and gotten drunk for two , three, four weeks after the fight and still had at least 12 weeks to go to training camp and get himself right. He was the champion. Under any circumstances, it’s not unreasonable for him to remain in shape. Not party away his title.

[giacomino]

I guess we've figured out that elmer must be from Panama. Nobody on Earth. Anywhere. Has ever suggested that Pedroza was more skilled than Ray Robinson.

Yeah, he has a thing with Pedroza in particular. More “skilled” is classic Elmo. I will say Pedroza was better than SRR at hitting opponents in the balls and getting away with it before referees deducted points. Elmo says it was because of the nasty American media that I say that but I probably saw at least half of Pedroza’s alphabet title defenses live and he was a ball-buster from the get-go. I will agree with Elmo that Pedroza was past his best when he lost to McGuigan and he was probably older than 29, his stated age.

[Jeff_lacy_ko]

By this logic james toney is the most skilled fighter of all time

Good outside
Greatest inside
Beat the goat mike mccallum like a drum
Atg chin
Won at hw, cw, mw, lhv

[gilgamesh]

By this logic james toney is the most skilled fighter of all time

Good outside
Greatest inside
Beat the goat mike mccallum like a drum
Atg chin
Won at hw, cw, mw, lhv

I don't think he won a belt at Light Heavy. He won one at Super Middle.

I guess we're about 25 or 30 years away from James Toney's skills becoming primitive

[giacomino]

By this logic james toney is the most skilled fighter of all time

Good outside
Greatest inside
Beat the goat mike mccallum like a drum
Atg chin
Won at hw, cw, mw, lhv

I don't think he won a belt at Light Heavy. He won one at Super Middle.

I guess we're about 25 or 30 years away from James Toney's skills becoming primitive

Depends how long Elmo lives. His favorites are always "on another level."

[gilgamesh]

By this logic james toney is the most skilled fighter of all time

Good outside
Greatest inside
Beat the goat mike mccallum like a drum
Atg chin
Won at hw, cw, mw, lhv

I don't think he won a belt at Light Heavy. He won one at Super Middle.

I guess we're about 25 or 30 years away from James Toney's skills becoming primitive

Depends how long Elmo lives. His favorites are always "on another level."

What's weird is didn't he at one point praise Joe Gans as being more skilled than some of these guys? How you could say Joe Louis and Ray Robinson were primitive, but Joe Gans was technically proficient is beyond me.

[goose 5]

When did managers lose the exclusive right to sign for fights ? Duran is barely literate- according to him- so it is possible that Eleta was dictating to Duran .

[elmersalsa]

So it’s your stance that Duran had no say so whatsoever, he had to fight. And, he came into the fight out of shape, quit in the eighth round, and he’s not responsible for any of this. It’s all a sham to bring the title back to America? In other words, it’s everyone else’s fault? That’s your position?

It wasn't nobody's fault. But, Roberto Duran got BETRAYED big time by his promoter Don King and his own manager Carlos Eleta for $8 million dollars.

[elmersalsa]

And I saw the great Sugar Ray Robinson highlights over and over again. I have studied him. You guys didn't. Why? Because you guys rest in the narrative without doing any homework.

The guy was a great boxer in his time. He was fast, strong, got a power punch, stamina, excellent coordination, great chin, heart, will, determination and boxing skills with a good jab. He faltered in something and that's why he was not the most complete boxer ever. He lacked fighting inside. That's a fact. Look at his tapes again. He threw punches too wide. I mean, wiiiide!

And as I said, I have seen 10 boxers on tape that were better equipped, more complete than Robinson. Why that got to be something bizarre to understand? Look at his highlights. Look at his fights! He CANNOT FIGHT INSIDE.

That's why I put my money on Roberto Duran and Sugar Ray Leonard if they both fight Robinson at welterweight. They were much more complete than he was. But,
a fight at middleweight, Robinson wins because he was much more stronger than those two. That is why we got weight classes for a reason.

[Ambling Alp II]

Loved tbe opening : And I saw the great Sugar Ray Robinson highlights over and over again. I have studied him. You guys didn't. Why? Because you guys rest in the narrative without doing any homework.

He has studied "highlights" of Robinson

And he says we have not studied, Well, I'm pretty sure most us have seen many entire fights of Robinson. The difference is we either don't dislike him or those of us that do don't let that color our rating of him.

Not sure how Duran could be more "complete". If the other guy was talented and fought a scientific fight, Duran was in big trouble.
How could Leonard be more complete than Robinson? Leonard is not even a "real fighter".
And how is Pedroza a "complete fighter" ? He was not that hard of a puncher and was not fast on his feet.

We are all still waiting to know why of a guy who fought before the 1960s automatically has "primitive skills" except for if elmer happens to like him. Like Joe Gans. People keep asking elmer this, but he never answers.

[elmersalsa]

Loved tbe opening : And I saw the great Sugar Ray Robinson highlights over and over again. I have studied him. You guys didn't. Why? Because you guys rest in the narrative without doing any homework.

He has studied "highlights" of Robinson

And he says we have not studied, Well, I'm pretty sure most us have seen many entire fights of Robinson. The difference is we either don't dislike him or those of us that do don't let that color our rating of him.

Not sure how Duran could be more "complete". If the other guy was talented and fought a scientific fight, Duran was in big trouble.
How could Leonard be more complete than Robinson? Leonard is not even a "real fighter".
And how is Pedroza a "complete fighter" ? He was not that hard of a puncher and was not fast on his feet.

We are all still waiting to know why of a guy who fought before the 1960s automatically has "primitive skills" except for if elmer happens to like him. Like Joe Gans. People keep asking elmer this, but he never answers.

Sugar Ray Robinson was not more complete boxer than Roberto Duran, Sugar Ray Leonard nor Eusebio Pedroza.

If we put them four together in watching their fights and highlights, Pedroza was the most complete boxer of the four in my view. Robinson would be fourth.

And why? The three of them could do the same thing Robinson was doing. But, Robinson cannot do what the other three do. And that's fighting inside. I can't picture a Featherweight Robinson beating Pedroza. Pedroza would beat him bad. The same thing would be with Robinson and Duran at lightweight/welterweight and Robinson with Leonard at welterweight. Those three would eat Robinson inside.

That's not farfetched. Just look at the videos. Robinson can't fight inside. That's a fact.

[gilgamesh]

If you watch the fight known as "The St. Valentine's Day Massacre" and come out of that with the conclusion that Ray Robinson couldn't fight on the inside. I guess you watch Michael Jordan, and think he can't play Basketball too.

[elmersalsa]

If you watch the fight known as "The St. Valentine's Day Massacre" and come out of that with the conclusion that Ray Robinson couldn't fight on the inside. I guess you watch Michael Jordan, and think he can't play Basketball too.

He wasn't fighting the great Jake LaMotta inside. Every time they got in close, Sugar Ray Robinson was doing all the clinching. There was not an instance in that fight that they were slugging it out inside.

And when they were an opportunity for it, Robinson clinches. Look at the tape again. Robinson wasn't a great inside fighter like people in here believes. It's a fallacy.

[gilgamesh]

If you watch the fight known as "The St. Valentine's Day Massacre" and come out of that with the conclusion that Ray Robinson couldn't fight on the inside. I guess you watch Michael Jordan, and think he can't play Basketball too.

He wasn't fighting the great Jake LaMotta inside. Every time they got in close, Sugar Ray Robinson was doing all the clinching. There was not an instance in that fight that they were slugging it out inside.

And when they were an opportunity for it, Robinson clinches. Look at the tape again. Robinson wasn't a great inside fighter like people in here believes. It's a fallacy.

[Expug]

If you watch the fight known as "The St. Valentine's Day Massacre" and come out of that with the conclusion that Ray Robinson couldn't fight on the inside. I guess you watch Michael Jordan, and think he can't play Basketball too.

He wasn't fighting the great Jake LaMotta inside. Every time they got in close, Sugar Ray Robinson was doing all the clinching. There was not an instance in that fight that they were slugging it out inside.

And when they were an opportunity for it, Robinson clinches. Look at the tape again. Robinson wasn't a great inside fighter like people in here believes. It's a fallacy.

He beat Jake’s body like a drum on the inside in that fight. They pulled Ray off him while he was pounding Jake on the inside.

[elmersalsa]

If you watch the fight known as "The St. Valentine's Day Massacre" and come out of that with the conclusion that Ray Robinson couldn't fight on the inside. I guess you watch Michael Jordan, and think he can't play Basketball too.

He wasn't fighting the great Jake LaMotta inside. Every time they got in close, Sugar Ray Robinson was doing all the clinching. There was not an instance in that fight that they were slugging it out inside.

And when they were an opportunity for it, Robinson clinches. Look at the tape again. Robinson wasn't a great inside fighter like people in here believes. It's a fallacy.

He beat Jake’s body like a drum on the inside in that fight. They pulled Ray off him while he was pounding Jake on the inside.

Those were mid-range punches. Sugar Ray Robinson was an awful inside fighter. He couldn't fight inside well to save his life.

Eder Jofre was much more complete than he. So was Eusebio Pedroza, Salvador Sanchez, Roberto Duran, Sugar Ray Leonard, Marvelous and others.

When Robinson fought the great Carmen Basilio, Basilio was eating him up on the inside every time they got up close. Robinson was a terrible inside fighter.

[Jaywheel]

[Cap]

Sugar Ray Robinson was the best, Jerry! The best!

'nuff said.

[Expug]

Exactly.

[Ezzard]

When they're this great it's just splitting hairs.

[elmersalsa]

Exactly.

Do not follow the multitude to do evil, Expug.

[elmersalsa]

When they're this great it's just splitting hairs.

None of the two were better than Henry Armstrong. Armstrong is the true king of the pound per pound boxers.

[Expug]

Exactly.

Do not follow the multitude to do evil, Expug.

I have yet to see evil in this forum.

[elmersalsa]

Exactly.

Do not follow the multitude to do evil, Expug.

I have yet to see evil in this forum.

You better believe it. A lot of evil minded people are in this forum. Do not follow the multitude to do evil, please.

I have dealt with them many times. They get out of the topic by insulting and making fun of those that disagree with them. That means that they lost the argument of the topic given.