I know both sports like the back of my hand, and both sports went hand in hand for centuries. Mind you, the London Prize Ring rules incorporated graeco-roman style of wrestling [all holds were legal from the waist up] and a round ended whenever a man hit the canvas, whether it be by a punch or by a slam.
And since the dawn of time there has always been a fight for dominance between the two sports. Mind you, at one time both boxing and wrestling were the two biggest sports in the world. Boxers became wrestlers, wrestlers became boxers, boxer vs wrestler competitions and on and on.
Discredit professional wrestling all you like, but William Muldoon [the American Wrestling champion] was just as much a help to John L. Sullivan's career as anyone else was, incorporating the top flight manuevers for the time, as well as holds, to make Sullivan a better champion.
Without Georgous George there wouldn't have been Muhammad Ali, at least the pizazz and flamboyancy that Ali used to hype up a fight. There would have been no rhymes, predictions or show...it all would have stayed the same as it always was, with hard pressed stare downs, hardly no words said, just plain fighting.
I'm not saying make a WWE thread or a TNA thread or an ECW thread, but overall a general wrestling thread, amateur or 'professional' to be discussed, independant promotions or the big three. I think it would actually bring some flavor to the forums.
Should There Be a Wrestling Thread?
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HomicideHenry
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 18722
- Joined: 08 Sep 2005, 00:43
Sorry mate, I wouldn't have chosen his exact words, but I have to agree with silkov, it's great entertainment but even more rigged than a Sven Ottke title defence and shouldn't appear on a boxing forum.silkov wrote:Wrestlings for grannies and spotty 14 yearolds without pubic hair... and those in between who dont get out enough!... sorry but thats the way it is... stick to the boxing Irish...
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robert.snell1
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 1141
- Joined: 16 Oct 2003, 07:56
no
well it is funny - the present stuff - but more if you want a career in acting. as for it being a sport that ended years ago mate.
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robert.snell1
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 1141
- Joined: 16 Oct 2003, 07:56
a fair point
a fair point to make. but a separate forum no really.i do have a fair bit of material on this as it was often the case that boxing and wrestling featured on the same pages of many publications.
) Ali was very good in a clinch... but then so was Max Baer according to Mae West!... 
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TheRiverCityHippy
- Middleweight
- Posts: 8466
- Joined: 08 Mar 2014, 15:39
the scary thing about that american wrestling is the crowd.
they are mostly middle aged men in there whooping and hollering, high fiving and holding home made signs with such and such sucks on them!
re the wrestlers themselves they are talented and athletic for big guys but if fellas that size really layed into each other they`d be mopping up the blood for a week, and their faces would look a mess for weeks.
they are mostly middle aged men in there whooping and hollering, high fiving and holding home made signs with such and such sucks on them!
re the wrestlers themselves they are talented and athletic for big guys but if fellas that size really layed into each other they`d be mopping up the blood for a week, and their faces would look a mess for weeks.
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TheRiverCityHippy
- Middleweight
- Posts: 8466
- Joined: 08 Mar 2014, 15:39
i dont see what your trying to prove, any grapple fan knows the only way to get out of the fiendish and dastardly `scalp and root` massage manouvre is to headbut the ring apron.Tantum wrote:This is all I have to say about wrestling...
http://img141. .us/img141/2559 ... 066yz6.gif
its common practise.
i know its drastic action but there`s just no other way outta there.....
No, not on this Furom.
If you want to talk Wrestling may I suggest the OTHER SPORTS ETC FORUM.
http://www.boxrec.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=11
If you want to talk Wrestling may I suggest the OTHER SPORTS ETC FORUM.
http://www.boxrec.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=11
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HomicideHenry
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 18722
- Joined: 08 Sep 2005, 00:43
Decagon...those were apart of the rules back then...anything from the waist up was pretty much fair game. Hell even Jim Corbett wrestled when he was the HW champion, and in the early days of the gloved era they still used some of these tactics in the clinches...hell they still do it, but not as aggressively.
I remember vividly how Jack Johnson's tactic of getting Jefferies in the clinches and out muscling/wrestling him was a key tactic to get inside his head, because Jefferies was noted for his immense strength.
He would say to Jefferies 'I'm stronger than you Mr. Jim' or 'Is that the best you can do Mr. Jim?' when Jefferies would either try to break away or try to show up Johnson. Ironically he did the same exact thing to Tommy Burns as well.
No...I don't really give major emphasis to the wrestling of the 70's to the present date...I give credit to the wrestlers of the 1930's and before, as there were 'shoots' from time to time. Lou Thesz, in my mind, was the last of the 'true' wrestling champions---even though by his time they were already incorporating scripts and time limits and character wrestlers had been around since the turn of the century and prior.
Back then there was still a pride in 'beat the man who beat the man'. Irregardless whatever critics may say, back then it was a sport between the top men in the business. Mind you, Abrahmam Lincoln, George Washington was also wrestlers---and there is some evidence that shows Lincoln was the 'inventor' of the choke slam, or at least the first reference that I know of or have read.
In the Americas there are diverse styles, but its mostly show. In the UK wrestling was always more scientific, but in recent years has been more or less been pushed to incorporate storylines and 'hollywood' as well as more intriguing styles. In Japan, its considered more 'sport' than show, with various styles and high-impact---sure winners and losers are still predetermined, but nonetheless these people are athletes.
Remember Danny Hodge? NCAA wrestler and appeared in the Olympics twice, was a Golden Gloces boxer, turned professional boxer, and then professional wrestler. He might very well have been the 'Kurt Angle' of his day. He would often do boxing matches with his fellow wrestlers and knock them out---as far as his wrestling ability is concerned, his tendon strength was so great that he could break a pair of pliers and crush apples in his bare hands.
And mind you, the old RING magazines had both boxing and wrestling articles in them, and there is still magazines that showcase both boxing and wrestling.
I ain't saying wrestling is real or fake, as I have set up numerous wrestling shows and talked to the wrestlers themselves, as well as researched its history. It is show, but don't think for a minute that the moves and such that they do doesn't hurt, because it does.
I simply implied a thread that talked about wrestling, as its history has intertwined with boxing for several centuries...not a straight up WWE/TNA/ECW etc thread, but more or less a thread that talked about its involvement with boxing and, of course, wrestlers who were legit when the sport was based more on merit and skill than ratings and dollar signs.
I remember vividly how Jack Johnson's tactic of getting Jefferies in the clinches and out muscling/wrestling him was a key tactic to get inside his head, because Jefferies was noted for his immense strength.
He would say to Jefferies 'I'm stronger than you Mr. Jim' or 'Is that the best you can do Mr. Jim?' when Jefferies would either try to break away or try to show up Johnson. Ironically he did the same exact thing to Tommy Burns as well.
No...I don't really give major emphasis to the wrestling of the 70's to the present date...I give credit to the wrestlers of the 1930's and before, as there were 'shoots' from time to time. Lou Thesz, in my mind, was the last of the 'true' wrestling champions---even though by his time they were already incorporating scripts and time limits and character wrestlers had been around since the turn of the century and prior.
Back then there was still a pride in 'beat the man who beat the man'. Irregardless whatever critics may say, back then it was a sport between the top men in the business. Mind you, Abrahmam Lincoln, George Washington was also wrestlers---and there is some evidence that shows Lincoln was the 'inventor' of the choke slam, or at least the first reference that I know of or have read.
In the Americas there are diverse styles, but its mostly show. In the UK wrestling was always more scientific, but in recent years has been more or less been pushed to incorporate storylines and 'hollywood' as well as more intriguing styles. In Japan, its considered more 'sport' than show, with various styles and high-impact---sure winners and losers are still predetermined, but nonetheless these people are athletes.
Remember Danny Hodge? NCAA wrestler and appeared in the Olympics twice, was a Golden Gloces boxer, turned professional boxer, and then professional wrestler. He might very well have been the 'Kurt Angle' of his day. He would often do boxing matches with his fellow wrestlers and knock them out---as far as his wrestling ability is concerned, his tendon strength was so great that he could break a pair of pliers and crush apples in his bare hands.
And mind you, the old RING magazines had both boxing and wrestling articles in them, and there is still magazines that showcase both boxing and wrestling.
I ain't saying wrestling is real or fake, as I have set up numerous wrestling shows and talked to the wrestlers themselves, as well as researched its history. It is show, but don't think for a minute that the moves and such that they do doesn't hurt, because it does.
I simply implied a thread that talked about wrestling, as its history has intertwined with boxing for several centuries...not a straight up WWE/TNA/ECW etc thread, but more or less a thread that talked about its involvement with boxing and, of course, wrestlers who were legit when the sport was based more on merit and skill than ratings and dollar signs.
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HomicideHenry
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 18722
- Joined: 08 Sep 2005, 00:43
lol no...
what i meant was i remember vividly a show on Johnson that I seen, and they said that was one of his tactics, because he did research on Jefferies and everybody said how strong he was in a clinch, how powerful a right hand he had and all...and Johnson's tactics of out wrestling Jefferies in the clinches and beating him to the punch with a right hand weighed heavy in Jefferies mind.
Was all psychological.
what i meant was i remember vividly a show on Johnson that I seen, and they said that was one of his tactics, because he did research on Jefferies and everybody said how strong he was in a clinch, how powerful a right hand he had and all...and Johnson's tactics of out wrestling Jefferies in the clinches and beating him to the punch with a right hand weighed heavy in Jefferies mind.
Was all psychological.
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The Great John L
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 4351
- Joined: 26 Jul 2005, 19:37
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HomicideHenry
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 18722
- Joined: 08 Sep 2005, 00:43
I just wanna re-tell a story that actually happened, which somewhat depicts wrestling and boxing in different lights...
Professional wrestler Lou Thesz once attended a boxing match with Pulitzer Prize winning sportswriter Red Smith. It was rumored that this match in particular was 'fixed', though nobody believed it. The fight ended, to the orchestra of boos and obscenities, on of all things a knockout from a flimsy back hand.
Smith, who had for years poked and prodded at wrestling, being quite possibly one of its harshest critics at the time, looked over to Thesz and simply stated: "Lou, I'll never write an unkind word about wrestling again. At least you guys make it look like a contest."
Professional wrestler Lou Thesz once attended a boxing match with Pulitzer Prize winning sportswriter Red Smith. It was rumored that this match in particular was 'fixed', though nobody believed it. The fight ended, to the orchestra of boos and obscenities, on of all things a knockout from a flimsy back hand.
Smith, who had for years poked and prodded at wrestling, being quite possibly one of its harshest critics at the time, looked over to Thesz and simply stated: "Lou, I'll never write an unkind word about wrestling again. At least you guys make it look like a contest."
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Aldo Pravisani
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 78
- Joined: 20 Aug 2006, 03:22
Nobody denies that there have been boxing matches that stank to high heaven, but all professional wrestling is arranged.IrishRufusMurphy wrote: ....Professional wrestler Lou Thesz once attended a boxing match with Pulitzer Prize winning sportswriter Red Smith. It was rumored that this match in particular was 'fixed', though nobody believed it. The fight ended, to the orchestra of boos and obscenities, on of all things a knockout from a flimsy back hand....
God knows that all boxing magazines, Nat Fleisher's Ring excepted, had a grappling section, and it took the readers a lot of work to have it removed.
Lou Thesz was only another strong man of the period, earning money doing what he was good at. But start with him, and then you'll have Killer Kowalski, Bruno Sammartino, Buddy Austin, Professor Tanaka, Bulldog Brower, Dominic DeNucci, Spiros Arion, Mark Lewin and a host of other former "world champions" knocking at the door of this forum, all dying to show us their submission holds.
NO TO PROFESSIONAL WRESTLING ON THESE PAGES
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The Great John L
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 4351
- Joined: 26 Jul 2005, 19:37
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TheRiverCityHippy
- Middleweight
- Posts: 8466
- Joined: 08 Mar 2014, 15:39
