Surprise Surprise.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 26 Sep 2006, 15:40

Nice to see the "impartial" secondsout.com team be so pleased for Junior Witter's title win and seem to be really hopefull for the clash we all want (as Brits) at Light Welter. Ant Evans, Ben Cohen (yes, I believe its the Rugby player) and Clive Bernarth answered some of their readers views.

Here's the questions and answers.

BITTER WITTER
First Name : ben
Last Name : daggers
Country : United Kingdom
Your Question : Something about Junior Witter has always left a slightly unpleasant taste in my mouth. I think it is the unappetising cocktail of spoiling, running and, (as evinced spectacularly the other week) doing absolutely sod all in the ring, and at the same time, complaining, whinging and shouting his mouth off out it. He genuinely believes that fighters are avoiding him either through fear (not one of boxers' most common traits) or an innate hatred for him (which is highly unlikely, although totally understandable). What 'Bitter' Witter seems unable to fathom is that negative performances in the ring are not an attractive proposition for any fighter. Why have a bad fight when you could have a good one? Added this is the fact that the self appraisals and justifications Witter gives for his tedious, conservative, do-just-enough-to-win 'fights' border on 'A-Farce' level delusion. I can only assume that since Witter has been fanless for so much of his career, when some do inexplicably turn up to see him fight, he is wholly clueless as to how to entertain them. As long as he's pleased (which is a given), then it's a job well done. I'm a huge Ricky fan, and while I would love to see Junior take an ego-deflating, career-ending, rib-shattering beating, I can't help but think that Witter's highly effective spoiling tactics would do the Hitman no favours, especially as he can look a bit rough even at the best of times. I think the unofficial 'boycott' of Junior Witter should continue so long as he has no interest in anyone in the arena besides the three scoring judges. What do you think?

ANT EVANS ANSWERS: Are you really a big Hatton fan, Ben? I'd never have guessed (LOL!). But, seriously, I think much of your criticism is on the money. Witter simply isn't entertaining to watch and all this talk of Hatton v Witter being this "huge super fight" is farcical. Witter drew around 800 fans to his WBC title win the other week. Ricky Hatton could get that many round his house for a barbeque. The simply reality is that Ricky is with HBO and HBO just won't

BEN COHEN ANSWERS: I met Junior Witter briefly a couple of years ago out in Los Angeles, and I must say, he was not the friendliest of guys. It was probably due to the fact he had a big fight the next day (with Lovemore N'dou), so I doubt it was indicative of his personality as a whole. However, I came away with the impression that he was quite a bitter person, as he was very negative when I tried to talk to him about what his plans were. Hatton, on the other hand, is about as friendly a person as you are likely to meet, and I think that translates into popularity with the fans. Now Witter is a World Champion, his attitude might improve. If it does, I'm sure he'll find more people will want to see him, and a fight with the Hit Man may become a possibility.

CLIVE BERNATH ANSWERS: I do agree, Ben I think Junior is a legend in his own mind and certainly not the attraction he would have you believe. Deep down, he knows it and so do his promoters. Yes I'd like to see Hatton vs Witter but it would not be a classic and I doubt broadcasters will jumping through hoops to screen it. Lets face it, assuming Hatton beats Juan Urango there are some massive fights out there, ie Castillo, Corrales and Mayweather to name but a few. I would very much like to see Witter cash in on the title but unfortunately I can see him involved in routine defences on Sky against one of the WBC top 10 contenders.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 26 Sep 2006, 15:46

Secondsout is a pile of shite I havent looked at it in about a year.

TerribleTerry · Post by **TerribleTerry** » 26 Sep 2006, 15:52

nickd wrote:Secondsout is a pile of shite I havent looked at it in about a year.

Bang on the money - it aint worth a w@nk.

Ever since they tried to sell Roman Greenburg as some sort of second coming of Joe Louis I knew it was a load of old bollox.

Avoid.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 26 Sep 2006, 15:53

Greenberg is very average. And still fighting no hopers.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 26 Sep 2006, 15:54

nickd wrote:Secondsout is a pile of shite I havent looked at it in about a year.

I'm afraid I do have to agree. I do occasionally read it but only for a laugh. Their hyping up Greenberg's opponent as a significant step up!!! LoL.

"He's been in with the heavy handed Matt Skelton" - Yep, and lost in two when Skelton was a 4 fight novice.

"Georgi Kandalaki" (that in itself is a laugh) - Got KO'd in one.

Nickolai Valuev - yep he did, back in 1999 and guess what - Ko'd in one - sensing the reoccuring theme.

Although he showed tremendous durability suriving one round vs Corrie Sanders (a fat out of shape Sanders, I have got the fight) - he was KO'd in the second though. Secondout did mis on the fact that he did wobble Sanders a bit in the first.

Yes, I am bias as F (England vs Wales rugby and all that) but how did Ben Cohen get the gig, even if its not the Rugby player (and I am sure it is) - most of him answering the mailbag is "I haven't seen him fight"

states · Post by **states** » 26 Sep 2006, 16:00

It's not the rugby-playing Ben Cohen. That one can barely read, let alone write.

TerribleTerry · Post by **TerribleTerry** » 26 Sep 2006, 16:04

stujones wrote: Yes, I am bias as F (England vs Wales rugby and all that) but how did Ben Cohen get the gig, even if its not the Rugby player (and I am sure it is) - most of him answering the mailbag is "I haven't seen him fight"

Why would a pro rugby player have a sideline part time gig of writing on boxing for a fairly marginal boxing web site Stu???!...

That would be weirdly bizarre, I wish it were true.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 26 Sep 2006, 16:04

c2ute wrote:Seconds Out certainly is quite poor these days, esp since the revamp, however despite, almost certainly having their own agenda, I do not think their comments about Witter are off the mark.
I firmly believe that Junior is going to find it hard to secure any big fights despite him being WBC champ. Vivian Harris was in the same boat, only Witter will prove farharder to beat.
In a nutshell Junior is not TV friendly, hard to beat, even harder to look good against and does not put bums on seats-who needs him?

Do you think it was really worth saying though. I met him once and he seemed like a twat (basically).

What I didn't like was the tone more than what was said, it was pretty much - he's one a belt... so what. They don't even appear to be bothered if it doesn't happen.

So what if Witter isn't the star, it will still gross big figures domestically cause of Hatton. Seconds out were apparently so pleased with Hatton PPV sales vs Maussa and Collazo - and do you think Witter's will be lower.... no chance domestically. The American public were primarily interested in Benn when he fought Eubank, Eubank was involved in some stinkers - defended a belt most yanks didn't recognise, but it was still well recieved (I believe) stateside. Primarily because of Benn, who did take the higher purse.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 26 Sep 2006, 16:12

states wrote:It's not the rugby-playing Ben Cohen. That one can barely read, let alone write.

My appologies there, obviously recieved a wind up email about it.

Anyway, I don't think he has been a particularly useful member of the team whoever he is (knowing my luck now he is a long time boxrec poster!).

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 26 Sep 2006, 16:43

Well what he wrote there is absolute bullshit, so he's suited to the site!

states · Post by **states** » 26 Sep 2006, 23:39

c2ute wrote:I think you have my tone a bit wrong, I think Witter is one of the better light welters out there, but because of the way things work in boxing I don't think he will secure the big fights.
Part of this is because there are other fighters out there who are more marketable and easier to beat.
Unfortunately I think Junior will find himself at the back of the queue, much like Harris did, his title did not secure him any big fights.
Why do you think everyone wanted to fight Gatti? Because he generated a lot of money and was very beatable.

You're absolutely right. Witter is only slightly more marketable now than he was before he won the WBC belt. The anology with Harris is a good one.

Whilst I'd be more than happy for Witter to rake in the cash and the big fights, it just isn't going to happen. His only option for a big money fight in the UK is Hatton. Other than that, he'll have to hope that someone like Universum or GBP has an up and coming 140lb'r, where Witter can be paid big bucks to take his title abroad.

Stu, with regards to your earlier post about Witter being as big a draw as, say, Collazo, I'm not disagreeing that Hatton-Witter should take place. But Junior comes from a very weak bargaining position. Unless Witter looks dynamite in his next few fights, he's going to have to take fornicate-all money, just as the likes of Urango will do. Witters win over Corley has only made him a belt-holder at 140, Hatton's win over Tszyu made him the man in the eyes of The Ring, the general public, etc. So Witters WBC belt makes him closer to the likes of Vilches, challenging for Hatton's WBU belt, than Hennessey sports would like. Harris was actually in a better position than Witter, because he was at least a step up.

Hopefully Hatton will finish out his current HBO contract with Urango in January, then Castillo in the spring (with Witter winning and looking good in the meantime), and we can get Hatton-Witter on in late Summer. But I still think it's as distant as ever. A crying shame.

Still think Hatton would win comfortably against Witter, mind you. But how nice would it be to actually know?

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 27 Sep 2006, 05:45

I dont see how Witter v Gatti could happen, Witter is unlikely to move up and Gatti cant make 147 anymore.

Witter v Harris is the fight to make next.

chris s · Post by **chris s** » 27 Sep 2006, 05:55

It is a dire site. Even had to issue a public aplogy to a ref the other week.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 27 Sep 2006, 06:09

Really? To whom? And what did they say?

chris s · Post by **chris s** » 27 Sep 2006, 06:17

Richie Davies.

Think it was over his handling of a Cral Froch fight. You'll have to do a search or see if they have archives

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 27 Sep 2006, 07:15

I do agree with C2ute and States, don't get me wrong. In my original post on the Witter win I said the fight (with Hatton) is as far away now, infact possibly futher, than it was before the fight. The tape of the Corley fight couldn't have impressed the HBO bosses.

My arguement is this though, despite the Judah and Corley performances Witter vs Hatton is still a big fight on these shores where as really Maussa vs Hatton (which took place in the UK its worth remembering) and Hatton vs Collazo wasn't a big money fight anywhere. Maybe SLIGHTLY (very slightly in Maussa's case) more appeal stateside than Witter, but not alot. Yet, these fights got made. Its not as if Maussa has impressed TV executives much in the past, he has a horrible fighting style and has lost more times than he's won infront of the TV cameras (I would imagine).

Now, I'm not saying that globally Witter vs Hatton will attract a bigger audience than Hatton's two defences, as they probably won't - but they will undoubtedly get Sky PPV revenue etc, why doesn't Team Hatton offer Team Witter a deal that they know they will be in the black financially after it. If Witter accepts then lets get it on, if Witter rejects then at least secondsout can report that Fight Academy have tried. At the moment, all Fight academy are stating at the moment is that its not financially do-able, but this is without discussing it with Witter/Hennessey. How do THEY know how much Witter is wanting to take the fight. If Witter is such a little known fighter, then a poultry sum will still be a career high purse, and he could accept.

Even if HBO are blocking it now, surely Witter is ONLY one big win away from getting the fight. All Maussa did really was beat Harris and he got the chance, all Jeff Orangutan did was controvesially win a paper belt and he's getting the chance. Witter holds much better wins than both of them. Harris lies high on the WBC ranking, has just put in a decent TV win over Stevie Johnston - now a good win over Harris in the states is surely all Witter needs.

My main problem with the mailbag was the tone of the answers, as opposed to what Ant Evans and Clive Bernarth said. States and C2ute's tone of the post is better, at least the two of you appear to be gutted that an all British unification fight is not close to happening, primarily cause of a fight that happened back in 2000. I haven't really likes "Team Hatton's" attitude since the Witter win. Its been like "Well done to Junior Witter on winning the WBC belt"......"so what HBO will still reject you". Fight Academy are not backwards in coming forwards regarding press releases for Calzaghe vs Woods, so why not Witter vs Hatton. Why can't we the fans of what could be the biggest domestic match in years, find out WHY negotations are not occuring. I would like to know when was the last time Fight Academy picked up the phone to the bosses at HBO and gone "What about Junior Witter".

There are no problems TV wise over here, GBP (if Witter still has his deal there) fights are primarily on HBO... This is the best opportunity (since the days both were SN fighters) for them to meet and I would like to see a concerted effort by both camps, instead of just - "No chance" like we are getting now.

Phenomenal-Nutrition · Post by **Phenomenal-Nutrition** » 27 Sep 2006, 08:19

I think Harris is a bad fight, I'd like to see Witter knock over some big name fighter that will make him look impressive - Freitas, Morales, Corrales, Cassamaya, Lazcano are all names that spring to mind. The Harris fight even if he beats him impressively will be talked down because of harris losing the fluke to Maussa. Plus Harris isn't a name or a draw.

punchers chance · Post by **punchers chance** » 27 Sep 2006, 09:41

Really? To whom? And what did they say?

Their apology was over a fight report on Froch v Magee when the author went completely over the top about Davis’ handling of the bout and implied he could have caused one of the boxers a serious injury because he was issuing instructions at the same time as allowing them to box.

DG. · Post by **DG.** » 27 Sep 2006, 10:00

stujones wrote:Nice to see the "impartial" secondsout.com team be so pleased for Junior Witter's title win and seem to be really hopefull for the clash we all want (as Brits) at Light Welter. Ant Evans, Ben Cohen (yes, I believe its the Rugby player) and Clive Bernarth answered some of their readers views.

Here's the questions and answers.

BITTER WITTER
First Name : ben
Last Name : daggers
Country : United Kingdom
Your Question : Something about Junior Witter has always left a slightly unpleasant taste in my mouth. I think it is the unappetising cocktail of spoiling, running and, (as evinced spectacularly the other week) doing absolutely sod all in the ring, and at the same time, complaining, whinging and shouting his mouth off out it. He genuinely believes that fighters are avoiding him either through fear (not one of boxers' most common traits) or an innate hatred for him (which is highly unlikely, although totally understandable). What 'Bitter' Witter seems unable to fathom is that negative performances in the ring are not an attractive proposition for any fighter. Why have a bad fight when you could have a good one? Added this is the fact that the self appraisals and justifications Witter gives for his tedious, conservative, do-just-enough-to-win 'fights' border on 'A-Farce' level delusion. I can only assume that since Witter has been fanless for so much of his career, when some do inexplicably turn up to see him fight, he is wholly clueless as to how to entertain them. As long as he's pleased (which is a given), then it's a job well done. I'm a huge Ricky fan, and while I would love to see Junior take an ego-deflating, career-ending, rib-shattering beating, I can't help but think that Witter's highly effective spoiling tactics would do the Hitman no favours, especially as he can look a bit rough even at the best of times. I think the unofficial 'boycott' of Junior Witter should continue so long as he has no interest in anyone in the arena besides the three scoring judges. What do you think?

ANT EVANS ANSWERS: Are you really a big Hatton fan, Ben? I'd never have guessed (LOL!). But, seriously, I think much of your criticism is on the money. Witter simply isn't entertaining to watch and all this talk of Hatton v Witter being this "huge super fight" is farcical. Witter drew around 800 fans to his WBC title win the other week. Ricky Hatton could get that many round his house for a barbeque. The simply reality is that Ricky is with HBO and HBO just won't

BEN COHEN ANSWERS: I met Junior Witter briefly a couple of years ago out in Los Angeles, and I must say, he was not the friendliest of guys. It was probably due to the fact he had a big fight the next day (with Lovemore N'dou), so I doubt it was indicative of his personality as a whole. However, I came away with the impression that he was quite a bitter person, as he was very negative when I tried to talk to him about what his plans were. Hatton, on the other hand, is about as friendly a person as you are likely to meet, and I think that translates into popularity with the fans. Now Witter is a World Champion, his attitude might improve. If it does, I'm sure he'll find more people will want to see him, and a fight with the Hit Man may become a possibility.

CLIVE BERNATH ANSWERS: I do agree, Ben I think Junior is a legend in his own mind and certainly not the attraction he would have you believe. Deep down, he knows it and so do his promoters. Yes I'd like to see Hatton vs Witter but it would not be a classic and I doubt broadcasters will jumping through hoops to screen it. Lets face it, assuming Hatton beats Juan Urango there are some massive fights out there, ie Castillo, Corrales and Mayweather to name but a few. I would very much like to see Witter cash in on the title but unfortunately I can see him involved in routine defences on Sky against one of the WBC top 10 contenders.

Secondsout = Fight Academy= Hatton.

Ignore them.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 27 Sep 2006, 10:41

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:I think Harris is a bad fight, I'd like to see Witter knock over some big name fighter that will make him look impressive - Freitas, Morales, Corrales, Cassamaya, Lazcano are all names that spring to mind. The Harris fight even if he beats him impressively will be talked down because of harris losing the fluke to Maussa. Plus Harris isn't a name or a draw.

Freitas yes, Morales yes but as a Light Welter (cannot see that happening), Corrales yes.

The other two I would put on a par with Harris in terms of name value. Casamayor WAS a bigger name, but he's looked like a shot fighter recently (infact, his next fight will be the ONLY time I will be not backing him).... He has been largely unimpressive and not really been on the big TV channels. HBO/Showtime etc haven't been clammering to see Casamayor - only now against Corrales is he back on the big boxing network. Of course, beats Corrales then he is a definately bigger draw than Harris.

Lascano, as someone else mentioned, is most famous for losing to Castillo, in a fight where he just froze. He hasn't featured much, or even at all, on the big boxing networks since. His fight with Ben Tackie was a good one and Tackie is an exiting fighter - yet even with DLH's backing, this only featured on a Spanish speaking station.

Harris is getting as much, if not more exposure than them recently.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 27 Sep 2006, 11:00

stujones wrote:
Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:I think Harris is a bad fight, I'd like to see Witter knock over some big name fighter that will make him look impressive - Freitas, Morales, Corrales, Cassamaya, Lazcano are all names that spring to mind. The Harris fight even if he beats him impressively will be talked down because of harris losing the fluke to Maussa. Plus Harris isn't a name or a draw.
Freitas yes, Morales yes but as a Light Welter (cannot see that happening), Corrales yes.

The other two I would put on a par with Harris in terms of name value. Casamayor WAS a bigger name, but he's looked like a shot fighter recently (infact, his next fight will be the ONLY time I will be not backing him).... He has been largely unimpressive and not really been on the big TV channels. HBO/Showtime etc haven't been clammering to see Casamayor - only now against Corrales is he back on the big boxing network. Of course, beats Corrales then he is a definately bigger draw than Harris.

Lascano, as someone else mentioned, is most famous for losing to Castillo, in a fight where he just froze. He hasn't featured much, or even at all, on the big boxing networks since. His fight with Ben Tackie was a good one and Tackie is an exiting fighter - yet even with DLH's backing, this only featured on a Spanish speaking station.

Harris is getting as much, if not more exposure than them recently.

Morales? Is that a joke? The guy got beat by Zahir Raheem at lightweight, and he's going to move up to 140?

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 27 Sep 2006, 11:16

TerribleTerry wrote:
nickd wrote:Secondsout is a pile of shite I havent looked at it in about a year.
Bang on the money - it aint worth a w@nk.

Ever since they tried to sell Roman Greenburg as some sort of second coming of Joe Louis I knew it was a load of old bollox.

Avoid.

They had a good forum there but this went downhill. Afterward there was little left on secondsout that would have intersted me.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 27 Sep 2006, 11:35

jamesmcdonnell wrote:
stujones wrote:
Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:I think Harris is a bad fight, I'd like to see Witter knock over some big name fighter that will make him look impressive - Freitas, Morales, Corrales, Cassamaya, Lazcano are all names that spring to mind. The Harris fight even if he beats him impressively will be talked down because of harris losing the fluke to Maussa. Plus Harris isn't a name or a draw.
Freitas yes, Morales yes but as a Light Welter (cannot see that happening), Corrales yes.

The other two I would put on a par with Harris in terms of name value. Casamayor WAS a bigger name, but he's looked like a shot fighter recently (infact, his next fight will be the ONLY time I will be not backing him).... He has been largely unimpressive and not really been on the big TV channels. HBO/Showtime etc haven't been clammering to see Casamayor - only now against Corrales is he back on the big boxing network. Of course, beats Corrales then he is a definately bigger draw than Harris.

Lascano, as someone else mentioned, is most famous for losing to Castillo, in a fight where he just froze. He hasn't featured much, or even at all, on the big boxing networks since. His fight with Ben Tackie was a good one and Tackie is an exiting fighter - yet even with DLH's backing, this only featured on a Spanish speaking station.

Harris is getting as much, if not more exposure than them recently.
Morales? Is that a joke? The guy got beat by Zahir Raheem at lightweight, and he's going to move up to 140?

I didn't suggest him, mearly repsonding to the claim. I very much doubt Morales will be fighting at 140.... However, if he did decide to challenge Witter I bet it would be on PPV in the states.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 27 Sep 2006, 16:47

Morales should be at Lightweight now.

140 shouldn't be that bad considering that he goes into the ring heavier onces he's rehydrated.

Andy Mac · Post by **Andy Mac** » 28 Sep 2006, 11:37

I am one of those that doesn't see why the fight with Hatton should take place, but i don't see what this Ben Cohen guy is talking about, when he said Witter is a nasty piece of work. I have met Witter twice, and contrary to popular belief the kid was very polite and approachable. I can only presume that he knows this Cohen fella and is aware he calls himself a boxing journo, and gave him the cold shoulder for that reason.

Surprise Surprise.

Surprise Surprise.

Re: Surprise Surprise.