Roberto Duran vs Benny Leonard in a series?

[keithmoonhangover]

Duran's manager greed and betrayal forced him to sign the dotted line without consulting his fighter.

Which tactics did they use to force Duran to sign the contract? Gunpoint? Thumbscrews? Waterboarding?

Duran was not in the negotiations. His manager betrayed him because of greed. Leonard camp knew that that greedy old bastard wasn't going to reject $8 million dollars. It was all betrayal.

Are you saying they forged Duran's signature on the contract?

[elmersalsa]

Which tactics did they use to force Duran to sign the contract? Gunpoint? Thumbscrews? Waterboarding?

Duran was not in the negotiations. His manager betrayed him because of greed. Leonard camp knew that that greedy old bastard wasn't going to reject $8 million dollars. It was all betrayal.

Are you saying they forged Duran's signature on the contract?

I know that you are an intelligent person. Would you sign a fight when you know you are not going to be ready for that date?

[keithmoonhangover]

Duran was not in the negotiations. His manager betrayed him because of greed. Leonard camp knew that that greedy old bastard wasn't going to reject $8 million dollars. It was all betrayal.

Are you saying they forged Duran's signature on the contract?

I know that you are an intelligent person. Would you sign a fight when you know you are not going to be ready for that date?

Are you saying they forged Duran's signature on the contract?

[Expug]

Is the claim here also that Elena was given 8 million dollars separate from the purse for the fight in order to bring in an unprepared fighter? Is that the claim?
Let’s get into specifics here.

[elmersalsa]

Is the claim here also that Elena was given 8 million dollars separate from the purse for the fight in order to bring in an unprepared fighter? Is that the claim?
Let’s get into specifics here.

Carlos Eleta, Roberto Duran's manager, got paid $8 million dollars behind Duran's back. He betrayed his fighter by not telling him the negotiations and what was going on. He told his fighter that there was a rematch after the fact that he signed the dotted line.

My question is, why Eleta didn't consult his fighter before taking the money?

Why Duran wasn't there for the negotiations?

Why everything went hush-hush by Mike Trainer, Don King and Eleta?

Never in the history of boxing, never ever a manager has gone to another management team to offer that type of money. It hasn't happened since, and it has never happened before. It was a BEAUTIFUL STRATEGY by the Leonard's camp by baiting the greedy Eleta.

Once Eleta signed the dotted line, Sugar Ray Leonard won the fight waaaayyyy before the opening bell. Eleta got baited for $8 million and fuucked over his greatest possession: Roberto Duran.

Eleta was so stupid and greedy that he preferred to betray his own fighter than not to take that type of money. Money that he never saw in boxing since or ever before. It was all a scam. A farce. And a wicked deed for Duran to look bad and for Sugar Ray to succeed. It was all a dirty fix, my friends. Thanks to Carlos Eleta.

Eleta could have gotten a way much better deal, about $15 million dollars if he considered and consulted Roberto. But, he didn't and Duran got screwed big time.

Now I can see why Duran really quit. It wasn't because the other guy was better. He saw between the lines the bull crap and quit. He knew that his own manager fuucked him over. He said the hell with it and quit. Even my own manager is against me.

You can't fight your opponent and your manager at the same time, folks. Duran got betrayed.

[elmersalsa]

Are you saying they forged Duran's signature on the contract?

I know that you are an intelligent person. Would you sign a fight when you know you are not going to be ready for that date?

Are you saying they forged Duran's signature on the contract?

And what you think? You tell me!

[Expug]

From what I understand, Leonard received 7 million and Duran 8 million for the fight.
Both Freddie Brown and Ray Arcel said Roberto was in great shape prior to the fight.
Arcel said that more time between the fights would have been detrimental to Duran as he would have gotten more out of shape.
Doesn’t sound like they were too concerned.
Of course, post fight there were various excuses made by many.
Arcel didn’t have a whole lot to say about it seeing as he never spoke to Duran again.
Lastly, in my experiences and observations, there were two kinds of fighters. Those that stayed in the gym and those that got way out of shape between fights.

[gilgamesh]

Yes. Indeed the 8 Million that Eleta sold Duran out for was being paid to Duran.

Elmer keeps making it sound as if the entire 8 Million was paid to Eleta in a Briefcase or something

[Expug]

Interesting. So it’s one or two things here.
Either Eleta was given an extra 8 million paid by…someone. Or, It was a nice , a very nice payday, especially by the standards of 1980 that would have to be split up by the typical manager, trainer, etc agreement.
The only way Duran could jeopardize collecting his share of the purse would be to do something outlandish like spitting out his mouthpiece in the middle of the fight and saying fu.. this.
So , was he saying, “ I’m gonna quit because I don’t want anyone, including myself, to get paid here”?
The commission seriously considered holding up his purse.
Seems a bit…dramatic. Not really the way a fighter, especially a guy like him thinks.

He was getting frustrated by Leonard, and overreacted to some of his antics.
He said the hell with it and did what he did. I’m sure he regrets it and we can’t define the guy by his lowest point. But, it is part of his legacy and it’s on him. That’s where it’s at.

[elmersalsa]

The guy got betrayed big time! His own greedy manager got paid. Then when the Louisiana Boxing Commission wanted to upheld Duran's purse, it was impossible to do so. The $8 million dollars were already in a Panama City bank.

Duran got hoodwinked and betrayed. Nothing was on his favor. And he was the champion? Interesting. Like Don King said, Only in America, folks.

[elmersalsa]

Interesting. So it’s one or two things here.
Either Eleta was given an extra 8 million paid by…someone. Or, It was a nice , a very nice payday, especially by the standards of 1980 that would have to be split up by the typical manager, trainer, etc agreement.
The only way Duran could jeopardize collecting his share of the purse would be to do something outlandish like spitting out his mouthpiece in the middle of the fight and saying fu.. this.
So , was he saying, “ I’m gonna quit because I don’t want anyone, including myself, to get paid here”?
The commission seriously considered holding up his purse.
Seems a bit…dramatic. Not really the way a fighter, especially a guy like him thinks.

He was getting frustrated by Leonard, and overreacted to some of his antics.
He said the hell with it and did what he did. I’m sure he regrets it and we can’t define the guy by his lowest point. But, it is part of his legacy and it’s on him. That’s where it’s at.

Part of it Manos de Piedra saw all the bull crap between the lines. He got screwed and betrayed by his own manager, then Sugar Ray is mocking him, and he said this is bullshit and quit. Not even my own manager supported me.

[gilgamesh]

Interesting. So it’s one or two things here.
Either Eleta was given an extra 8 million paid by…someone. Or, It was a nice , a very nice payday, especially by the standards of 1980 that would have to be split up by the typical manager, trainer, etc agreement.
The only way Duran could jeopardize collecting his share of the purse would be to do something outlandish like spitting out his mouthpiece in the middle of the fight and saying fu.. this.
So , was he saying, “ I’m gonna quit because I don’t want anyone, including myself, to get paid here”?
The commission seriously considered holding up his purse.
Seems a bit…dramatic. Not really the way a fighter, especially a guy like him thinks.

He was getting frustrated by Leonard, and overreacted to some of his antics.
He said the hell with it and did what he did. I’m sure he regrets it and we can’t define the guy by his lowest point. But, it is part of his legacy and it’s on him. That’s where it’s at.

Part of it Manos de Piedra saw all the bull crap between the lines. He got screwed and betrayed by his own manager, then Sugar Ray is mocking him, and he said this is bullshit and quit. Not even my own manager supported me.

He quit because he was getting embarrassed in the ring and couldn't figure out a way to make it stop.

[keithmoonhangover]

I know that you are an intelligent person. Would you sign a fight when you know you are not going to be ready for that date?

Are you saying they forged Duran's signature on the contract?

And what you think? You tell me!

No, I want to know what you think. That's why I've asked you.... twice. I'll try once again, do you think they forged Duran's signature on the contract?

[elmersalsa]

Interesting. So it’s one or two things here.
Either Eleta was given an extra 8 million paid by…someone. Or, It was a nice , a very nice payday, especially by the standards of 1980 that would have to be split up by the typical manager, trainer, etc agreement.
The only way Duran could jeopardize collecting his share of the purse would be to do something outlandish like spitting out his mouthpiece in the middle of the fight and saying fu.. this.
So , was he saying, “ I’m gonna quit because I don’t want anyone, including myself, to get paid here”?
The commission seriously considered holding up his purse.
Seems a bit…dramatic. Not really the way a fighter, especially a guy like him thinks.

He was getting frustrated by Leonard, and overreacted to some of his antics.
He said the hell with it and did what he did. I’m sure he regrets it and we can’t define the guy by his lowest point. But, it is part of his legacy and it’s on him. That’s where it’s at.

Part of it Manos de Piedra saw all the bull crap between the lines. He got screwed and betrayed by his own manager, then Sugar Ray is mocking him, and he said this is bullshit and quit. Not even my own manager supported me.

He quit because he was getting embarrassed in the ring and couldn't figure out a way to make it stop.

Thanks to his manager. Nothing was in Duran's favor. Nothing. It was one of the most uneven terms of a fight that ever been witnessed. Never in the history of boxing, a manager has ever betrayed his fighter.

[elmersalsa]

Are you saying they forged Duran's signature on the contract?

And what you think? You tell me!

No, I want to know what you think. That's why I've asked you.... twice. I'll try once again, do you think they forged Duran's signature on the contract?

Apparently he did forged it. That fight was made behind his back, right?

[Expug]

So, your claims are , 1 , Duran had no choice but to fight Leonard again because his manager forged his name on a binding contract.
2, Duran would have been sued by promoters, his own manager and whomever else if he didn’t honor the contract and fight Leonard again on the date established by Leonard’s people, Don King , and Eleta.
3, Durans manager was paid 8 million dollars to make this happen. This was unbeknownst to Duran, and presumably Arcel and Brown, his trainers.
4, Duran, once he found out about this , still decided to train and fight Leonard on the established date, at which point, he would have had to know what transpired, if as you say, he said the hell with it mid fight and called it off. Because as you said, his own manager was against him.
Is that the claim?

[keithmoonhangover]

And what you think? You tell me!

No, I want to know what you think. That's why I've asked you.... twice. I'll try once again, do you think they forged Duran's signature on the contract?

Apparently he did forged it. That fight was made behind his back, right?

So the contract was signed by someone other than Duran? Who do you think it was?

[GordonChen]

Imagine if the four kings was in the 1910s era how would they have done?

[gilgamesh]

Imagine if the four kings was in the 1910s era how would they have done?

3 of the 4 of them would've done nothing because they would've been Black in 1910, and therefore wouldn't have gotten a shot. Something tells me they wouldn't have been open minded toward a Latin guy from Panama either.

[elmersalsa]

So, your claims are , 1 , Duran had no choice but to fight Leonard again because his manager forged his name on a binding contract.
2, Duran would have been sued by promoters, his own manager and whomever else if he didn’t honor the contract and fight Leonard again on the date established by Leonard’s people, Don King , and Eleta.
3, Durans manager was paid 8 million dollars to make this happen. This was unbeknownst to Duran, and presumably Arcel and Brown, his trainers.
4, Duran, once he found out about this , still decided to train and fight Leonard on the established date, at which point, he would have had to know what transpired, if as you say, he said the hell with it mid fight and called it off. Because as you said, his own manager was against him.
Is that the claim?

Yes. His own manager was at fault. But, nobody blames the manager. Nobody blames Don King, his promoter since 1975.

[elmersalsa]

No, I want to know what you think. That's why I've asked you.... twice. I'll try once again, do you think they forged Duran's signature on the contract?

Apparently he did forged it. That fight was made behind his back, right?

So the contract was signed by someone other than Duran? Who do you think it was?

His own manager forged it. It was all about greed and betrayal. That was the only way to beat the great Roberto Duran. They beat him with dirty tactics like this.

The whole thing was a sham. A betrayal. A conspiracy to humiliate and destroy the best fighter pound per pound in the world at the time.

Roberto Duran was not the man the American boxing media wanted to be looked up on as #1. It was their Golden Boy, Sugar Ray Leonard. The BEAUTIFUL STRATEGY worked by flying to Panama and baited Duran's greedy manager to sign the contract.

So, if Duran wasn't there, who signed it? There were only three or four people in the office. And one of them was not Duran. Duran was in New York City.

[gilgamesh]

You talk like a Latino version of Donald Trump. "THE BEAUTIFUL STRATEGY". Whole thing was a sham. A betrayal.

You really seem to buy your own bullsh*t with this I'll give you that. But Bullsh*t is definitely what it is.

[elmersalsa]

You talk like a Latino version of Donald Trump. "THE BEAUTIFUL STRATEGY". Whole thing was a sham. A betrayal.

You really seem to buy your own bullsh*t with this I'll give you that. But Bullsh*t is definitely what it is.

You can't accept the truth, because like Jack Nicholson said: "You can't handle the truth!"

Roberto Duran was hoodwinked and betrayed. That was the real story. And it's factual. Everything that happened came true. Even the way Duran walked inside that ring was totally odd. Duran knew that he was in trouble way before the opening bell. He was betrayed, big time!

[gilgamesh]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think we've spun this broken record enough.

[elmersalsa]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think we've spun this broken record enough.

You can't accept nor handle the truth! That's what is happening.