What year did UK last have no world champions?

[Ruthless-RKO]

Why would it not be a serious question?

Is that a serious question?

Why would it not be? You reckon if the IBO becomes the 5th title and legitimatized in 5 years time, we'll all look back at Eubank Jr as former world titlist?

IBF was established in 83. Was founded after a guy split from the WBA.

Anyway, they became legitimate by mid to late 80’s.

Guys like Larry Holmes held the world title.

WBO was founded 88, again, after a split from the WBA. Many saw it as a European belt in the 90’s probably cus Frank had it shoved up his ass haha. I believe it was early 2000’s, it got recognised.

IBO was founded in 88 as well, but never achieved that same status. I mean it’s been that long.

It’s definitely 5th best no doubt. They’re up there. Several unified and undisputed champions have held the IBO belt alongside other belts. But ultimately, a secondary fringe world title.

I don’t think it will ever become the ‘major 5’.

The IBF and WBO are basically 2nd tier WBA titles then

[handsofstone]

Is that a serious question?

Why would it not be? You reckon if the IBO becomes the 5th title and legitimatized in 5 years time, we'll all look back at Eubank Jr as former world titlist?

IBF was established in 83. Was founded after a guy split from the WBA.

Anyway, they became legitimate by mid to late 80’s.

Guys like Larry Holmes held the world title.

WBO was founded 88, again, after a split from the WBA. Many saw it as a European belt in the 90’s probably cus Frank had it shoved up his ass haha. I believe it was early 2000’s, it got recognised.

IBO was founded in 88 as well, but never achieved that same status. I mean it’s been that long.

It’s definitely 5th best no doubt. They’re up there. Several unified and undisputed champions have held the IBO belt alongside other belts. But ultimately, a secondary fringe world title.

I don’t think it will ever become the ‘major 5’.

The IBF and WBO are basically 2nd tier WBA titles then

Tbf I know the whole ABC shit show, well the basics at least, it's just weird that some of our best world champs held technically minor trinkets

[Ruthless-RKO]

Yh I mean. Who has the final say in whether they’re minor or major?

Media? Promoters? Boxers? Fans? The other orgs?

All bullshit really.

At the moment, there’s a lot of divisions where we know who the undisputed #1 of that division is.

[Riddick Bowie]

Yh I mean. Who has the final say in whether they’re minor or major?

Media? Promoters? Boxers? Fans? The other orgs?

All bullshit really.

At the moment, there’s a lot of divisions where we know who the undisputed #1 of that division is.

When Mike Tyson is the undisputed champion and you say Francesco Damiani is the champ, you're minor.

When Roy Jones is the man and fighting James Toney and your guy Eubankis fighting Dan Schomer, you're minor.

So many of our best world champs would have been European champs at best had the WBO not existed and most of us know it.

[tigermoth87]

What about Lauren Price.

Nobody cares about female boxing. Despite the big push to get us to accept it, it's shite. You have people with like 6-2 records in the top ten

[Noxy]

What about Lauren Price.

Nobody cares about female boxing. Despite the big push to get us to accept it, it's shite. You have people with like 6-2 records in the top ten

It's not as big as the men's game but people still care about it and it does exist.

[tigermoth87]

What about Lauren Price.

Nobody cares about female boxing. Despite the big push to get us to accept it, it's shite. You have people with like 6-2 records in the top ten

It's not as big as the men's game but people still care about it and it does exist.

Nah, if you ask the average bloke down the pub to name a female boxer. They'd say Katie Taylor and then draw a blank.

[JamesPhilips]

Nobody cares about female boxing. Despite the big push to get us to accept it, it's shite. You have people with like 6-2 records in the top ten

It's not as big as the men's game but people still care about it and it does exist.

Nah, if you ask the average bloke down the pub to name a female boxer. They'd say Katie Taylor and then draw a blank.

I doubt they’d even say that. Women’s boxing is so low quality as to not count

[Taansend]

How comes Eubank, Benn etc were all regarded world champs in the 80s and 90s with WBO titles but Lennox was regarded undisputed in the 90s and 00s with only the other 3?

Henry Akinwande was the WBO Champ in January 1997 then lost to Lewis that July without losing the belt in the ring.

[handsofstone]

How comes Eubank, Benn etc were all regarded world champs in the 80s and 90s with WBO titles but Lennox was regarded undisputed in the 90s and 00s with only the other 3?

Henry Akinwande was the WBO Champ in January 1997 then lost to Lewis that July without losing the belt in the ring.

Is that right mate? its a bit cloudy regarding when the WBO became accepted as a major title by the Americans , must've been mid to later noughties

[Taansend]

How comes Eubank, Benn etc were all regarded world champs in the 80s and 90s with WBO titles but Lennox was regarded undisputed in the 90s and 00s with only the other 3?

Henry Akinwande was the WBO Champ in January 1997 then lost to Lewis that July without losing the belt in the ring.

Is that right mate? its a bit cloudy regarding when the WBO became accepted as a major title by the Americans , must've been mid to later noughties

Here you go.

Akinwande beat Half Man Half Amazing for the vacant WBO title in June 96, defended it against Zolkin in December then Scott Welch just two months later in a Don King mega bill in Nashville. I remember listening to that on the radio & it was as boring as it could be. I left London (& the UK) a few weeks later not knowing I'd never move back.

Then he signs to fight Lewis that July but (& my memory is hazy here) either the WBC or the WBO wouldn't allow it to be a unification bout so Herbie Hide fought Tony Tucker for the vacant belt in Norwich in June promoted by the WBO's favourite promoter Mr F Warren. Meanwhile Our Other 'Enry fights Lewis, in a poor fight, for the WBC bauble & gets DQ'd in 5.

https://boxrec.com/en/title/91/Heavyweight?offset=50

[handsofstone]

Henry Akinwande was the WBO Champ in January 1997 then lost to Lewis that July without losing the belt in the ring.

Is that right mate? its a bit cloudy regarding when the WBO became accepted as a major title by the Americans , must've been mid to later noughties

Here you go.

Akinwande beat Half Man Half Amazing for the vacant WBO title in June 96, defended it against Zolkin in December then Scott Welch just two months later in a Don King mega bill in Nashville. I remember listening to that on the radio & it was as boring as it could be. I left London (& the UK) a few weeks later not knowing I'd never move back.

Then he signs to fight Lewis that July but (& my memory is hazy here) either the WBC or the WBO wouldn't allow it to be a unification bout so Herbie Hide fought Tony Tucker for the vacant belt in Norwich in June promoted by the WBO's favourite promoter Mr F Warren. Meanwhile Our Other 'Enry fights Lewis, in a poor fight, for the WBC bauble & gets DQ'd in 5.

https://boxrec.com/en/title/91/Heavyweight?offset=50

Cheers Taans

[THEBUTCH]

The WBO took a good while to establish throughout the globe. For many years it depended how good the champion was for it to be given much credence. Oscar De La Hoya probably helped the WBO gain prominence as much as anyone.

It practically became a "super" British title or "International" British title for several years in the United Kingdom.

The situation with the WBO heavyweight title was even more hollow. Like Micky Duff used to say "there's boxing....and then there's heavyweight boxing".

Practically no one recognised the WBO heavyweight champion as an authentic world champion, even when Riddick Bowe went on a run with it. It was almost as if he was beating top ten heavyweights in non-title fights.

Francesco Damiani, Ray Mercer, Riddick Bowe, Tommy Morrison, Herbie Hide et al. They were all in some parallel world that wasn't accepted as genuine.

[Ruthless-RKO]

It was early 2000’s, before 2004, where it began to get recognised alongside the other 3.

[Riddick Bowie]

The WBO took a good while to establish throughout the globe. For many years it depended how good the champion was for it to be given much credence. Oscar De La Hoya probably helped the WBO gain prominence as much as anyone.

It practically became a "super" British title or "International" British title for several years in the United Kingdom.

The situation with the WBO heavyweight title was even more hollow. Like Micky Duff used to say "there's boxing....and then there's heavyweight boxing".

Practically no one recognised the WBO heavyweight champion as an authentic world champion, even when Riddick Bowe went on a run with it. It was almost as if he was beating top ten heavyweights in non-title fights.

Francesco Damiani, Ray Mercer, Riddick Bowe, Tommy Morrison, Herbie Hide et al. They were all in some parallel world that wasn't accepted as genuine.

Deservedly so in most cases given the standard of opposition they were facing.

Bowe only fought for it because he was frozen out by the Don King controlled alphabet groups despite being considered the best heavyweight in the world. In 1995 he was in the preposterous position of not being ranked in the top 10 by bodies that did rank Holyfield, Seldon and Lionel Butler, all of whom he had beaten, and even Peter McNeeley!

His WBO run was an attempt to legitimise it as Holmes and Hagler did the IBF but it didn't take, holding the WBO belt made life more difficult for him. Holyfield refused to fight for it in their rubber match because winning it would have taken him out of the alphabet rankings. That fight wound up being for the New York State world heavyweight title and HBO recognition as real heavyweight champ. It was the best of times, it was the worst of times.

[Taansend]

Bowe only fought for it because he was frozen out by the Don King controlled alphabet groups despite being considered the best heavyweight in the world.

He was "frozen out" because of that fornicating eejit manager Rock Newman.

Don King is a fornicating wanker but Bowe's issues were down to Bowe & Newman, not King.

[Riddick Bowie]

Bowe only fought for it because he was frozen out by the Don King controlled alphabet groups despite being considered the best heavyweight in the world.

He was "frozen out" because of that fornicating eejit manager Rock Newman.

Don King is a fornicating wanker but Bowe's issues were down to Bowe & Newman, not King.

While I concur Newman was an idiot, I have to question your cognitive functionality if you can defend the US media's consensus no 1 heavyweight not being ranked in the top 10 when the alphabet boys did give top 10 rankings to Don King controlled or aligned Mike Tyson (no fights in 4 years), Frank Bruno, Oliver McCall, Larry Holmes, Tony Tucker, Bruce Seldon, Lionel Butler, Frank Botha and Peter McNeeley. Nothing to see here ay?

[Taansend]

What's the point of ranking a fighter who throws your belt in the rubbish?

Bowe's problems were caused by Bowe, and Newman.

You can make all the excuses you want, but he messed his own career up.

[gilgamesh]

The WBO took a good while to establish throughout the globe. For many years it depended how good the champion was for it to be given much credence. Oscar De La Hoya probably helped the WBO gain prominence as much as anyone.

It practically became a "super" British title or "International" British title for several years in the United Kingdom.

The situation with the WBO heavyweight title was even more hollow. Like Micky Duff used to say "there's boxing....and then there's heavyweight boxing".

Practically no one recognised the WBO heavyweight champion as an authentic world champion, even when Riddick Bowe went on a run with it. It was almost as if he was beating top ten heavyweights in non-title fights.

Francesco Damiani, Ray Mercer, Riddick Bowe, Tommy Morrison, Herbie Hide et al. They were all in some parallel world that wasn't accepted as genuine.

Some of the key moments that I recall establishing the WBO were Joe Calzaghe being the WBO Super Middleweight Champion for so long and eventually solidifying his claim as the #1 guy in the division.

Barrera winning the Morales rematch, and holding up the WBO belt when he won felt big for the WBO too as that was for the Legit Featherweight Championship at that time.

Some networks would treat it as a major title in the 90's, HBO would generally scoff at it, and dismiss it entirely, Ring Magazine always ignored it as well. In the early years when I first started buying that magazine they'd include the WBC, WBA and IBF rankings, but they didn't consider the WBO to be important enough to mention.

[Taansend]

While I concur Newman was an idiot, I have to question your cognitive functionality if you can defend the US media's consensus no 1 heavyweight not being ranked in the top 10 when the alphabet boys did give top 10 rankings to Don King controlled or aligned Mike Tyson (no fights in 4 years), Frank Bruno, Oliver McCall, Larry Holmes, Tony Tucker, Bruce Seldon, Lionel Butler, Frank Botha and Peter McNeeley. Nothing to see here ay?

So I had a quick look & Bowe WAS ranked when he fought Larry Donald in December 1994. He was 5 with the IBF & 8 with the WBA. Then he won the WBO title from Herbie Hide in March 95 & was dropped from other groups rankings, as was the norm back in the 90s.

So I haven't "defended" it as you say. But that's the simple explanation.

He was ranked, despite you saying he wasn't, until he won the WBO title when he stopped being ranked. Like everyone else who won WBO titles.

[Riddick Bowie]

While I concur Newman was an idiot, I have to question your cognitive functionality if you can defend the US media's consensus no 1 heavyweight not being ranked in the top 10 when the alphabet boys did give top 10 rankings to Don King controlled or aligned Mike Tyson (no fights in 4 years), Frank Bruno, Oliver McCall, Larry Holmes, Tony Tucker, Bruce Seldon, Lionel Butler, Frank Botha and Peter McNeeley. Nothing to see here ay?

So I had a quick look & Bowe WAS ranked when he fought Larry Donald in December 1994. He was 5 with the IBF & 8 with the WBA. Then he won the WBO title from Herbie Hide in March 95 & was dropped from other groups rankings, as was the norm back in the 90s.

So I haven't "defended" it as you say. But that's the simple explanation.

He was ranked, despite you saying he wasn't, until he won the WBO title when he stopped being ranked. Like everyone else who won WBO titles.

Tell me who was above Bowe according to the WBA and IBF please, this should be a laugh. 7 men ranked over Riddick Bowe in the 1994? Incredible!

And as I say, the WBC didn't rank him at all, although I know you support that. So to go all the way back to my original point, being WBO champion was a hindrance to him.

[Taansend]

While I concur Newman was an idiot, I have to question your cognitive functionality if you can defend the US media's consensus no 1 heavyweight not being ranked in the top 10 when the alphabet boys did give top 10 rankings to Don King controlled or aligned Mike Tyson (no fights in 4 years), Frank Bruno, Oliver McCall, Larry Holmes, Tony Tucker, Bruce Seldon, Lionel Butler, Frank Botha and Peter McNeeley. Nothing to see here ay?

So I had a quick look & Bowe WAS ranked when he fought Larry Donald in December 1994. He was 5 with the IBF & 8 with the WBA. Then he won the WBO title from Herbie Hide in March 95 & was dropped from other groups rankings, as was the norm back in the 90s.

So I haven't "defended" it as you say. But that's the simple explanation.

He was ranked, despite you saying he wasn't, until he won the WBO title when he stopped being ranked. Like everyone else who won WBO titles.

Tell me who was above Bowe according to the WBA and IBF please, this should be a laugh. 7 men ranked over Riddick Bowe in the 1994? Incredible!

And as I say, the WBC didn't rank him at all, although I know you support that. So to go all the way back to my original point, being WBO champion was a hindrance to him.

You said that none of them rated him. Which wasn't true.

And you can look at the ratings now & find hundreds of examples of lesser fighters being rated higher than better fighters. The IBF has Anderson above Bakole.

You've been twisting & turning this whole thread, saying things that are then proved untrue.

What's the point? What are you gaining from this? Why did you say no one ranked him when it wasn't true?

[Riddick Bowie]

So I had a quick look & Bowe WAS ranked when he fought Larry Donald in December 1994. He was 5 with the IBF & 8 with the WBA. Then he won the WBO title from Herbie Hide in March 95 & was dropped from other groups rankings, as was the norm back in the 90s.

So I haven't "defended" it as you say. But that's the simple explanation.

He was ranked, despite you saying he wasn't, until he won the WBO title when he stopped being ranked. Like everyone else who won WBO titles.

Tell me who was above Bowe according to the WBA and IBF please, this should be a laugh. 7 men ranked over Riddick Bowe in the 1994? Incredible!

And as I say, the WBC didn't rank him at all, although I know you support that. So to go all the way back to my original point, being WBO champion was a hindrance to him.

You said that none of them rated him. Which wasn't true.

And you can look at the ratings now & find hundreds of examples of lesser fighters being rated higher than better fighters. The IBF has Anderson above Bakole.

You've been twisting & turning this whole thread, saying things that are then proved untrue.

What's the point? What are you gaining from this? Why did you say no one ranked him when it wasn't true?

Because I'm going on 30 year old memories here, you dingbat. I remembered editorials about how scandalous it was that the best heavyweight in the world was unranked which obviously related to the WBC, who did rank Peter McNeeley.

The IBF having him at 8 is laughable. I suspect the men above him are largely undeserving Don King fighters but you choose neither to confirm or deny this because you want me to be wrong, which is petty.

My main point was Bowe's holding the WBO belt was a hindrance which it was (Holyfield didn't even want to fight for it) and he ultimately ditched it, which he did.

[Ruthless-RKO]

We got two world champions now