Joe Calzaghe-British boxing's greatest ever ?

[goose 5]

It seems Calzaghe was just voted the greatest fighter in the history of British boxing ? Thoughts ?

[gilgamesh]

It's not completely unreasonable. I don't know that I'd have him as the greatest, but he's certainly the most underrated Champion from the U.K.

Won all of his fights. Most weren't close. Had blazing hand speed for his size, had an awkward but highly effective style.

You certainly could make a pretty good argument for him being the Top man of the U.K.

[Controversial]

It's a shame JC didn't have the big fights until the end of his career, lots of defences over 10+ years but not many big names.

[gilgamesh]

It's a shame JC didn't have the big fights until the end of his career, lots of defences over 10+ years but not many big names.

Kinda like Terence Crawford right now.

[mickey1975]

Like suggested in the Hatton thread, was Joe even better as an amateur? Before his hands went hardly anyone went the distance with him and to win the ABA's three years running at different weights is remarkable. The old style real ABA's, too.

[Riddick Bowie]

Undefeated but there's not much to get excited by on his record. Wonder what it would have looked like had the WBO not existed.

His compatriot Tommy Farr stepping up and losing a controversial decision to peak Joe Louis is worth 100 WBO defences against cans.

Fighters who take risks and lose should be given more credit than fighters who take no risks and escape undefeated.

[Controversial]

Like suggested in the Hatton thread, was Joe even better as an amateur? Before his hands went hardly anyone went the distance with him and to win the ABA's three years running at different weights is remarkable. The old style real ABA's, too.

I know JC has said his bad hands maybe helped him become a better fighter as he had to rely on fitness, speed and ability rather than power.

[NazNaci1]

Not for me. A great British fighter for sure.

Too many cans, 'British' stoppages and years wasted. He could have pushed more for a match against a peak RJJ at LH, but would not have been a smart move and would have been decimated.

I also felt that Reid beat him, who was still a strong, good fighter. Other top tier British fighters have stronger resumes, imo ie Ted Lewis, Jack 'Kid' Berg, Lennox Lewis, even the likes of Nigel Benn, Duke McKenzie, Ken Buchanan.

Ok, they were not unbeaten so I think a big argument for Calzaghe is the fact he was. I suppose it comes down to how much importance you can put on that.

Some will value that higher than others and that is fair enough.

[Ruthless-RKO]

A lot of his career was like Hatton’s…

They had the bigger fights towards the end of their careers and when they left Frank.

Underwhelming career

[mickey1975]

A lot of his career was like Hatton’s…

They had the bigger fights towards the end of their careers and when they left Frank.

Underwhelming career

Hatton had his career defining fights at his absolute peak.

[Coco]

Quite reasonable to say he was, obviously will generate argument.
Lennox is up there, then some old timers
Brutal power in the ams and then early on in his pro career, great speed and timing

[Frostieballs]

I’m a massive fan of Calzaghe. Can see both sides on this.

He was definitely well managed/promoted.

One question I have to ask - what is his standout win?

The big names on his record were arguably past their best. So is it Lacy, who was possibly overrated. Kessler? Not elite.

Without overcoming a marquee challenge, can he truly be the greatest?

[big lennox]

I think Calzaghe was his hand speed, jab, volume of punches, stamina and durability is a hard nights work for anyone.

He beat Hopkins in the middle of a very good run ( Hopkins beat Tarver, Winky Wright, lost to Calzaghe and then beat Pavlik).

Lacy took such a shellacking that he was never the same fighter after that.

Kessler was an excellent fighter - he went on to beat Froch and he was unlucky to face Ward with a a referee who allowed Ward to use his head excessively.

[Riddick Bowie]

The 0 is a blot on his record. So Ken Buchanan gets downgraded for losing to Roberto Duran, Calzaghe elevated because he didn't lose? Where's Calzaghe's equivalent of a Roberto Duran?

Sick Note wouldn't go and fight Jones or Hopkins in their prime because he had 'a fear of flying'. Amazing how that lifelong fear disappeared after Jones and Hopkins got old and started losing. This is Britain's 'greatest ever'?

[Coco]

The 0 is a blot on his record. So Ken Buchanan gets downgraded for losing to Roberto Duran, Calzaghe elevated because he didn't lose? Where's Calzaghe's equivalent of a Roberto Duran?

Sick Note wouldn't go and fight Jones or Hopkins in their prime because he had 'a fear of flying'. Amazing how that lifelong fear disappeared after Jones and Hopkins got old and started losing. This is Britain's 'greatest ever'?

Hopkins had some great results after JC, reached his prime late

[Frostieballs]

The 0 is a blot on his record. So Ken Buchanan gets downgraded for losing to Roberto Duran, Calzaghe elevated because he didn't lose? Where's Calzaghe's equivalent of a Roberto Duran?

Sick Note wouldn't go and fight Jones or Hopkins in their prime because he had 'a fear of flying'. Amazing how that lifelong fear disappeared after Jones and Hopkins got old and started losing. This is Britain's 'greatest ever'?

Hopkins had some great results after JC, reached his prime late

Think that is being kind..... In the build up to Calzaghe he had decent wins on paper, but Wright was a Middleweight and Tarver wasn't elite.

After Joe he did beat Jones, but he was faded, lost to Dawson. Did get a win over Pavlik and edged past Pascal.. those are the ones I remember. But nothing stellar! I'll go look at his record now in case I am wrong :-)

[Riddick Bowie]

The 0 is a blot on his record. So Ken Buchanan gets downgraded for losing to Roberto Duran, Calzaghe elevated because he didn't lose? Where's Calzaghe's equivalent of a Roberto Duran?

Sick Note wouldn't go and fight Jones or Hopkins in their prime because he had 'a fear of flying'. Amazing how that lifelong fear disappeared after Jones and Hopkins got old and started losing. This is Britain's 'greatest ever'?

Hopkins had some great results after JC, reached his prime late

If you want to sell a 43 year old man as being anywhere near his physical prime knock yourself out.

[stujones]

Its Wilde and the two Lewis' ahead for me, but a legitimate case for Joe to be #1. There are a band of others also - like Buchannan - who you could put ahead of Joe.

I think Joe below top 5 might be on the harsh side. Definitely lower part of the 10 would be harsh.

Where Hatton is ranked would also been interesting - beat the undoubted #1 in the division - can't really argue with that, you possibly can with Joe - Hopkins had "retired" before he fought Joe - I do find it hard to rank "retired" fighters immediately back at number 1 without some kind warm up.

Shorter career than Calzaghe, possibly a similar (ish) line of wins in terms of quality opposition as Joe in title fights - although I would say Kessler does trump pretty much Hatton's resume (not including Tszyu) - but then at least had a go at fighting the best and possibly at weights most suiting his opponent (in Mayweather's case).

For differing reasons it might go down to who you feel was the most talented - which is where Cazalghe edges it.

As much as I think he was truly gifted - it would be hard press to rank someone like Naz ahead of Joe.

[deadpan]

It's a shame JC didn't have the big fights until the end of his career, lots of defences over 10+ years but not many big names.

Kinda like Terence Crawford right now.

That's a rather flattering comparison for Joe.
When was Bud's Salem, Thornberry, Starie performances?

[Ruthless-RKO]

Crawford kept moving up and fought the best the divisions had to offer

[Steveh583]

i would say lennox but i dont really count him as a brit

[SeanBrennan]

We all know it's Audley, you horrible bunch...

[gilgamesh]

It's a shame JC didn't have the big fights until the end of his career, lots of defences over 10+ years but not many big names.

Kinda like Terence Crawford right now.

That's a rather flattering comparison for Joe.
When was Bud's Salem, Thornberry, Starie performances?

Calzaghe definitely scraped the bottom of the contender barrel a lot harder than many other titleholders. I was just saying that for Calzaghe and Crawford their biggest fights have come deep into their careers. I wasn't comparing the level of competition or performance.

[prewarboxing]

Its Wilde and the two Lewis' ahead for me, but a legitimate case for Joe to be #1. There are a band of others also - like Buchannan - who you could put ahead of Joe.

I think Joe below top 5 might be on the harsh side. Definitely lower part of the 10 would be harsh.

Where Hatton is ranked would also been interesting - beat the undoubted #1 in the division - can't really argue with that, you possibly can with Joe - Hopkins had "retired" before he fought Joe - I do find it hard to rank "retired" fighters immediately back at number 1 without some kind warm up.

Shorter career than Calzaghe, possibly a similar (ish) line of wins in terms of quality opposition as Joe in title fights - although I would say Kessler does trump pretty much Hatton's resume (not including Tszyu) - but then at least had a go at fighting the best and possibly at weights most suiting his opponent (in Mayweather's case).

For differing reasons it might go down to who you feel was the most talented - which is where Cazalghe edges it.

As much as I think he was truly gifted - it would be hard press to rank someone like Naz ahead of Joe.

I completely agree with this Stu. Top five for me, in no particular order are Wilde, TK Lewis, Lennox Lewis, Calzaghe and John Conteh

Miles Templeton

[banjo]

Hard to say, I don't know enough about pre-WW2 fighters to judge on who the greatest is, I remember reading about a fighter called Jock McAvoy who went over to the states and destroyed the reigning world middleweight champion in the first round but the champion wouldn't rematch him in a title fight. So it wouldn't surprise me if the best British boxer never actually won a world title, the alphabet soup era of boxing has really diluted what a real champion is, there's guys holding titles who would never have got near a title shot 50 years ago.