Golovkin at 35 y/o was a superior fighter to the 35 y/o Canelo (recent version)

[apollo creed]

Man, Golovkin at 35-36 y/o was in a very good shape compared to this version of Canelo. Back then Canelo was like 26-27 y/o when he fought GGG for the first time. Of course styles make fights and Crawford's style and set of skills are different from GGG's, but still you could see that Canelo was not in his best shape vs Bud.

[Ruthless-RKO]

GGG was a better fighter at that age.

[apollo creed]

GGG was a better fighter at that age.

Definitely.

[gilgamesh]

GGG was a better fighter at that age.

I feel like he was a better fighter period, but achievement wise Canelo has the edge on him.

[apollo creed]

GGG was a better fighter at that age.

I feel like he was a better fighter period, but achievement wise Canelo has the edge on him.

Yes but thats mostly because of GGGs poor management. He could've been matched more properly with more known fighters from 154 like Angulo, Bundrage, Kirkland, Trout and Lara to build up a better resume. I think most of these jr mw fighters would've moved up at 160 to fight GGG for a decent payday. GGG wasted some precious prime years at 160 fighting some low profile C / B level opponents to get some of those belts, when the mw division was dull. Jacobs was GGGs first top opponent in 2017, when GGG was 34 y/o.

[MPW]

GGG was a better fighter at that age.

I feel like he was a better fighter period, but achievement wise Canelo has the edge on him.

Yes but thats mostly because of GGGs poor management. He could've been matched more properly with more known fighters from 154 like Angulo, Bundrage, Kirkland, Trout and Lara to build up a better resume. I think most of these jr mw fighters would've moved up at 160 to fight GGG for a decent payday. GGG wasted some precious prime years at 160 fighting some low profile C / B level opponents to get some of those belts, when the mw division was dull. Jacobs was GGGs first top opponent in 2017, when GGG was 34 y/o.

It would have been interesting to see if those 154 fighters would have moved up to face him, although money could have been a great motivator to take the risk. I agree Golovkin spent too many years beating up lower level competition at MW, but the other top fighters in the division really didn't want anything to do with him. He couldn't force them to get in the ring, although better management/promoter may have been able to sweeten the purse to entice them to do so.

Despite being on the downward slope, I still believe Golovkin clearly and easily won the first fight with Canelo and edged the second one. Canelo narrowly but clearly won the third bout at SMW. One can only speculate how GGG's still excellent career would be viewed if he had won the first two fights with Alvarez. In that scenario, would there have even been a third fight? If not, Golovkin would be sitting at 44-0 with a long streak of successful MW title defenses.

[giacomino]

GGG was a better fighter at that age.

I feel like he was a better fighter period, but achievement wise Canelo has the edge on him.

Yes but thats mostly because of GGGs poor management. He could've been matched more properly with more known fighters from 154 like Angulo, Bundrage, Kirkland, Trout and Lara to build up a better resume. I think most of these jr mw fighters would've moved up at 160 to fight GGG for a decent payday. GGG wasted some precious prime years at 160 fighting some low profile C / B level opponents to get some of those belts, when the mw division was dull. Jacobs was GGGs first top opponent in 2017, when GGG was 34 y/o.

Agree, his first 8-10 title fights were poor mismatches and they really didn’t give him anybody until he was in his 30s, which was too bad because he would have been a star much earlier

[apollo creed]

I feel like he was a better fighter period, but achievement wise Canelo has the edge on him.

Yes but thats mostly because of GGGs poor management. He could've been matched more properly with more known fighters from 154 like Angulo, Bundrage, Kirkland, Trout and Lara to build up a better resume. I think most of these jr mw fighters would've moved up at 160 to fight GGG for a decent payday. GGG wasted some precious prime years at 160 fighting some low profile C / B level opponents to get some of those belts, when the mw division was dull. Jacobs was GGGs first top opponent in 2017, when GGG was 34 y/o.

It would have been interesting to see if those 154 fighters would have moved up to face him, although money could have been a great motivator to take the risk. I agree Golovkin spent too many years beating up lower level competition at MW, but the other top fighters in the division really didn't want anything to do with him. He couldn't force them to get in the ring, although better management/promoter may have been able to sweeten the purse to entice them to do so.

Despite being on the downward slope, I still believe Golovkin clearly and easily won the first fight with Canelo and edged the second one. Canelo narrowly but clearly won the third bout at SMW. One can only speculate how GGG's still excellent career would be viewed if he had won the first two fights with Alvarez. In that scenario, would there have even been a third fight? If not, Golovkin would be sitting at 44-0 with a long streak of successful MW title defenses.

I think if GGG would've had a few high profile wins vs some top fighters from 154 @ MW, then his drawing power would've been much stronger to get fights with Cotto , JCC jr or Canelo much sooner. GGG vs Kirkland would've been a fun-fight to watch for sure.
Kirkland and Lara would've been more quality and credible opponents for GGG than guys like Macklin, Stevens, Adama, Geale, Rubio, Monroe Jr or Wade.

[apollo creed]

I feel like he was a better fighter period, but achievement wise Canelo has the edge on him.

Yes but thats mostly because of GGGs poor management. He could've been matched more properly with more known fighters from 154 like Angulo, Bundrage, Kirkland, Trout and Lara to build up a better resume. I think most of these jr mw fighters would've moved up at 160 to fight GGG for a decent payday. GGG wasted some precious prime years at 160 fighting some low profile C / B level opponents to get some of those belts, when the mw division was dull. Jacobs was GGGs first top opponent in 2017, when GGG was 34 y/o.

Agree, his first 8-10 title fights were poor mismatches and they really didn’t give him anybody until he was in his 30s, which was too bad because he would have been a star much earlier

At that time the jr mw division was stacked with talent compared with the mw div. but I guess GGGs handlers were trying to put GGG in the best possible position for a mw title shot by fighting some top 10 ranked contenders, especially from the rankings of the wba and the wbc organisations.

[NazNaci1]

At 35yrs old, yes, I would say so.

You could argue Canelo put more wear and tear on his body, as he turned pro at 15. Then again, GGG had a 345-5 amateur record at elite level.

GGG was very heavily avoided by the top tier guys, in general. Martinez, Sturm, Taylor, Quillin and a lot others gave him a wide berth.

You could understand why, so had to make do beating up some solid contenders in the likes of Ouma, Proksa, Rosada, Ishida, who stopped Kirkland in a round, Geale, Macklin, Stevens, Murray, Lemieux and Danny Jacobs. These fights were pretty easy for him and he wasn't pushed much. Maybe that had something to do with his ability to fight sublimely at 35yrs +?

Obviously time ticks on but even at 35yrs old and a tad slower, the guy was still masterful, was economical, had brilliant timing, accuracy, solid defence and brutal power. Add to that, he kept his rock solid chin even as he aged.

A great fighter.

[apollo creed]

At 35yrs old, yes, I would say so.

You could argue Canelo put more wear and tear on his body, as he turned pro at 15. Then again, GGG had a 345-5 amateur record at elite level.

GGG was very heavily avoided by the top tier guys, in general. Martinez, Sturm, Taylor, Quillin and a lot others gave him a wide berth.

You could understand why, so had to make do beating up some solid contenders in the likes of Ouma, Proksa, Rosada, Ishida, who stopped Kirkland in a round, Geale, Macklin, Stevens, Murray, Lemieux and Danny Jacobs. These fights were pretty easy for him and he wasn't pushed much. Maybe that had something to do with his ability to fight sublimely at 35yrs +?

Obviously time ticks on but even at 35yrs old and a tad slower, the guy was still masterful, was economical, had brilliant timing, accuracy, solid defence and brutal power. Add to that, he kept his rock solid chin even as he aged.

A great fighter.

Yep.

[giacomino]

At 35yrs old, yes, I would say so.

You could argue Canelo put more wear and tear on his body, as he turned pro at 15. Then again, GGG had a 345-5 amateur record at elite level.

GGG was very heavily avoided by the top tier guys, in general. Martinez, Sturm, Taylor, Quillin and a lot others gave him a wide berth.

You could understand why, so had to make do beating up some solid contenders in the likes of Ouma, Proksa, Rosada, Ishida, who stopped Kirkland in a round, Geale, Macklin, Stevens, Murray, Lemieux and Danny Jacobs. These fights were pretty easy for him and he wasn't pushed much. Maybe that had something to do with his ability to fight sublimely at 35yrs +?

Obviously time ticks on but even at 35yrs old and a tad slower, the guy was still masterful, was economical, had brilliant timing, accuracy, solid defence and brutal power. Add to that, he kept his rock solid chin even as he aged.

A great fighter.

Ishida had been shut out in his two previous fights, Ouma had lost five of his previous seven fights … GGG’s management put him in “title fights” with a bunch of guaranteed wins before he fought legit opposition. You can say he was ducked …. Maybe he was, maybe not … but it’s speculation unless you were in the room when the deals were discussed. His management did him no favors because he had the goods

[KiwiRider]

It's true, unless Canelo has some sort of fairytale late career resurgence - and it does happen.
Both guys seemingly live/lived the life well enough, so in Canelo's case, it's just genetics.
GGG had a remarkable career, especially after he turned 32, which seems like the number a vast amount of MW's form falls off. His power and chin was enough to still be competitive.

[NazNaci1]

At 35yrs old, yes, I would say so.

You could argue Canelo put more wear and tear on his body, as he turned pro at 15. Then again, GGG had a 345-5 amateur record at elite level.

GGG was very heavily avoided by the top tier guys, in general. Martinez, Sturm, Taylor, Quillin and a lot others gave him a wide berth.

You could understand why, so had to make do beating up some solid contenders in the likes of Ouma, Proksa, Rosada, Ishida, who stopped Kirkland in a round, Geale, Macklin, Stevens, Murray, Lemieux and Danny Jacobs. These fights were pretty easy for him and he wasn't pushed much. Maybe that had something to do with his ability to fight sublimely at 35yrs +?

Obviously time ticks on but even at 35yrs old and a tad slower, the guy was still masterful, was economical, had brilliant timing, accuracy, solid defence and brutal power. Add to that, he kept his rock solid chin even as he aged.

A great fighter.

Ishida had been shut out in his two previous fights, Ouma had lost five of his previous seven fights … GGG’s management put him in “title fights” with a bunch of guaranteed wins before he fought legit opposition. You can say he was ducked …. Maybe he was, maybe not … but it’s speculation unless you were in the room when the deals were discussed. His management did him no favors because he had the goods

Of course we can speculate on what happened but it was not coincidence that he could not get a shot at any of the belts, when clearly, he was the outstanding fighter in the division, and clearly superior to the opponents (fringe contenders) he brutalised.

You could argue that his management could have thrown more money at it to make it happen, but it was also clear that the belt holders and their management wanted no part of him.

Scary thing is, he said his (younger twin) brother, Max, was even better than him but only one them could turn pro and he being the eldest, he had priority.

[gilgamesh]

Why could only one of them turn Pro? That doesn't make sense

[NazNaci1]

Why could only one of them turn Pro? That doesn't make sense

Not entirely sure but I think it had to do with something along the lines that they lost 2 brothers who were serving in the army and they were poor and one of them had o continue working to help the family or something like that.....found this thread.

viewtopic.php?t=257673

[Ruthless-RKO]

Why could only one of them turn Pro? That doesn't make sense

Kazakhstan could only send one middleweight from the two brothers. Gennadiy was older by about 15 minutes.

Max apparently stepped aside for Gennadiy. Sacrificing his chances. He stayed home and cared for his family. Their two older brothers Sergey and Vadim died whilst serving in the army.

[tigermoth87]

Shame Golovkin's legacy is tainted with two robberies vs Canelo. He'd probably be in line as one of the greatest ever, but sadly... even though we all know they were robberies, all what matters at the end of the day and for the record books is the final result.

In 20 years time noone's gonna remember "Golovkin should have two wins over Canelo too" it'll be just "he couldnt beat Canelo"

[gilgamesh]

Why could only one of them turn Pro? That doesn't make sense

Kazakhstan could only send one middleweight from the two brothers. Gennadiy was older by about 15 minutes.

Max apparently stepped aside for Gennadiy. Sacrificing his chances. He stayed home and cared for his family. Their two older brothers Sergey and Vadim died whilst serving in the army.

But even when Gennady found success, and was making hundreds of thousands, and eventually millions. They still couldn't find some other arrangement that would allow Gennady's brother to Box?

[gilgamesh]

Shame Golovkin's legacy is tainted with two robberies vs Canelo. He'd probably be in line as one of the greatest ever, but sadly... even though we all know they were robberies, all what matters at the end of the day and for the record books is the final result.

In 20 years time noone's gonna remember "Golovkin should have two wins over Canelo too" it'll be just "he couldnt beat Canelo"

In 20 years time most people ain't gonna remember Canelo either. Boxing fans will always be familiar with Golovkin.

[Ruthless-RKO]

In 20 years time noone's gonna remember "Golovkin should have two wins over Canelo too" it'll be just "he couldnt beat Canelo"

I mean, us here on the board still talk about robberies from the 80’s and 90’s

[gilgamesh]

In 20 years time noone's gonna remember "Golovkin should have two wins over Canelo too" it'll be just "he couldnt beat Canelo"

I mean, us here on the board still talk about robberies from the 80’s and 90’s

Norton vs Ali 3 from 1975 still gets brought up quite a bit too.

I suspect many of the robberies from the Video era will stand the test of time to be talked about. People don't talk about bad decisions from the 1940's or 1950's because for the most part they haven't seen them, but big fights in the Modern era, there's always going to be video evidence if you care to seek it out.

[tigermoth87]

In 20 years time noone's gonna remember "Golovkin should have two wins over Canelo too" it'll be just "he couldnt beat Canelo"

I mean, us here on the board still talk about robberies from the 80’s and 90’s

This is a boxing board though. For 90% of people, it's just gonna be "Golovkin couldn't beat Canelo in three attempts". Especially for people who didn't see the actual fights themselves because it was before they took an interest in boxing. They're just gonna see "Golovkin failed to beat Canelo three times" and the fact they were robberies wont even come into play.

[BroughtonRulesRefuge]

Shame Golovkin's legacy is tainted with two robberies vs Canelo. He'd probably be in line as one of the greatest ever, but sadly... even though we all know they were robberies, all what matters at the end of the day and for the record books is the final result.

In 20 years time noone's gonna remember "Golovkin should have two wins over Canelo too" it'll be just "he couldnt beat Canelo"

- Unstudied boxing fans like you are responsible for boxing being a Red Light sport of crooked officiating and oversight, the only pro sport of major historical significance that keeps scoring hidden until the end. But the Big Gamer$ know, so that leaves little guys poorer.

1st fight I had Canelo by 1 pt, so I was ecstatic over the draw. I score even rounds that fans like you mistakenly think their fighter won.

In the 2nd fight, a fired up Canelo still steaming over his 6 month suspension because of a ghost Nanogram Clen test between a barrage of clean tests that wouldn't put muscles on a gnat, he took Ring Center and knocked Golovkin back every time he entered. After 10 rounds, Canelo went back to his first fight by walking Golovkin into counter right hands.

The 3rd fight was a make up fight between the two where Canelo as a teen was a sparring partner for Golovkin where he got a nice $endoff into retirement, amen...

[gilgamesh]

In 20 years time noone's gonna remember "Golovkin should have two wins over Canelo too" it'll be just "he couldnt beat Canelo"

I mean, us here on the board still talk about robberies from the 80’s and 90’s

Castillo vs Mayweather still gets brought up with regularity around here. People remember robberies for sure.

May not the casual sports fan, but Boxing fans certainly do. The casual sports fan couldn't even name you 10 boxers so I wouldn't worry much about their opinion. Their lack of knowledge on Boxing is a gift to the Hardcore fan sometimes because of the opportunity it allows you and your greater knowledge on a niche sport.