How good is Tyson fury actually?

[gilgamesh]

I don't know what some of these guys ever did to impress you. I'll grant you that many of them fought each other, and therefore fought stiffer competition overall, but they all came out of it looking mediocre, and no better than each other in a series of close evenly contested fights with close decisions for the most part.

The majority of these guys have no real standout performances. Even when they would fight fringe contenders they would win sure, but they wouldn't win particularly impressively.

Wilder wouldn't be impressive either, but the end result sure the f*ck would be. It wasn't gonna a close decision that could go either way, it was going to be a Knockout.

Pinklon Thomas probably shows the best all around skill of the guys from the 1980's to me. Witherspoon has a decent overhand right, but fights at way to slow of a pace so all of his fights are often close. All these guys have big, big gaps in their game that could be exploited. I understand that Wilder does too. I'm not sitting here trying to say he's a million miles better than them, but I do think he's got a few inches on 'em at least.

And even though we like to say he's completely unskilled. I mean...the guy can throw a decent jab for f*cks sake along with that right hand. He ain't got much else I'll grant ya that

But he also didn't get tired. He still had his power in the 10th round or the 11th round. You can't say that for most of these dudes from the 1980's.

[mickey1975]

I do think Wilder would knock out Greg Page, Trevor Berbick and Tony Tubbs.

But while all of those guys won the belt, and then promptly lost it on their first defense. Wilder actually managed to somehow hang onto his for about 4 years.

If Luis Ortiz had challenged Pinklon Thomas, Greg Page, Tim Witherspoon, Bonecrusher Smith or Trevor Berbick he probably would've taken the belt off of them. Or at least would've had a 50/50 chance with any of them.

Stiverne I would say falls more into the Mike Weaver camp of an even lower tier than those guys, but he's about on that level.

Bonecrusher Smith was 18-5 when he beat Witherspoon bro. He could be beat for Christ's sake. Obviously as could Witherspoon.

So Deontay Wilder KOs Berbick and Tubbs, men who in their prime were KOd only by prime Mike Tyson... Bermane Stiverne is the same level as Mike Weaver, who took prime Larry Holmes to hell... the fragile Luis Ortiz is 50/50 with prime, hard punching, gifted heavies like Witherspoon and Pinklon Thomas...

Some people might say 'Wow, Bonecrusher Smith fought, on the trot(!!), Bruno, Holmes, Tubbs, Ribalta, Witherspoon, Frazier, Weaver, Ferguson, Bey, Witherspoon again, Tyson...' whereas Gilgamesh's take is 'He was 18-5 bro! He could be beat!!'

You fundamentally don't understand what you're looking at. You really show your hand with your comment, 'Those guys lost their title on their first defence but Wilder held onto his for a while'. In the 1980s Deontay Wilder would never get anywhere near a title shot. He would not have been protected or built up, he would have been fighting in a deep talent pool, getting KOd, and looking enviously at records like 18-5.

You do know he got built up because he won an Olympic medal?

[gilgamesh]

Yeah. He still ultimately had about as many big fights as any of these guys had, and fared better in them generally speaking.

Sergei Liakhovich was a former Heavyweight Titleholder and Wilder blitzed him in like 30 seconds. The 80's guys ain't got nothing like that over a former titlist...well except for Bonecrusher taking out Spoon in the rematch in 1.

I mean honestly. Watch their best results against the best competition they faced, and watch his. He at bare minimum could compete with these guys, and he'd beat half of 'em.

He could beat Pinklon Thomas or lose to Pinklon Thomas depending on the night.

He'd always beat Tony Tubbs in my opinion. He'd always beat Greg Page in my opinion. He'd probably lose to Bonecrusher Smith on Smith's best night. I don't think he'd be able to beat Tucker, he'd lose a decision to him. He might catch Berbick, he might not. If he don't he'd lose a decision to him. He might get poleaxed by Witherspoon if not it'd be a decision that could go either way because that's kinda Spoony's specialty. He'd beat Mike Weaver more often than not. He'd beat Michael Dokes more often than not.

Am I forgetting somebody?

Whether he could beat 'em or not though. Bottom line is. He won more title fights than all of them COMBINED!!!! How is he not better than most of them? Objectively speaking.

There were multiple belts in their era too, and they all only had 1 of them. Just like him, and they couldn't f*cking keep it.