Dariusz Michalczewski versus James Toney

[goose 5]

12 rounds. 175 pounds

[2128778]

Interesting match-up. If I recall, if Toney wouldn't have lost to Thadzi, Toney-Michalczewski could've happened (Thadzi got rewarded with that title shot against Dariusz, instead).

Anyway, LHW version of Toney is often somewhat underrated (because he hasn't won a major belt there and lost some fights he should've won). But had those two fights against Griffin went his way - we would've talked about LHW Toney in a different tone.

I think, Michalczewski is a complicated foe for Toney due to his size, defense and workrate. But Toney from Griffin fights probably would've coped with him. That said, in Germany Toney probably loses some split or majority decision.

[giacomino]

Outside of Germany, IMO, Toney UD

[gilgamesh]

Interesting match-up. If I recall, if Toney wouldn't have lost to Thadzi, Toney-Michalczewski could've happened (Thadzi got rewarded with that title shot against Dariusz, instead).

Anyway, LHW version of Toney is often somewhat underrated (because he hasn't won a major belt there and lost some fights he should've won). But had those two fights against Griffin went his way - we would've talked about LHW Toney in a different tone.

I think, Michalczewski is a complicated foe for Toney due to his size, defense and workrate. But Toney from Griffin fights probably would've coped with him. That said, in Germany Toney probably loses some split or majority decision.

It is definitely criminal that Toney is 0-2 against Montell Griffin, and not the rightful 2-0 he should've been. I remember giving him sh*t on the internet years ago about his losses to Griffin, and a Toney fan was so hell bent on proving to me that he didn't lose those fights that he sent me the tapes to prove it, and he was right.

I thought Toney deserved both bouts. The 2nd one after already having been robbed once, and winning even more clearly in the rematch, it ain't often in Boxing history you see somebody beat their opponent twice, and have no wins on their record to show for it.

[Seamus]

See what I just posted in Post Your Scorecards

[gilgamesh]

See what I just posted in Post Your Scorecards

Hey you're entitled to your opinion. I haven't watched those fights in many a year myself. Might run 'em back at some point this week and rescore the fights.

They were both fairly good fights so they're not a bad revisit in that regard.

[Seamus]

I'd take Michalczewski by a clear decision for the same reason I'd take Virgil Hill. These guys always came in the ring in shape to go 12 hard rounds and Toney was often lazy and couldn't sustain anything impressive he might occasionally do.

[keithmoonhangover]

Michalczewski on points. No question in my mind.

[elmersalsa]

A well trained and focused James "Lights Out" Toney is very hard to beat. Toney by decision in my estimation. That if he's in great shape for the fight.

[Les Norton]

Michalczewski on points. No question in my mind.

Agreed

[Les Norton]

A well trained and focused James "Lights Out" Toney is very hard to beat. Toney by decision in my estimation. That if he's in great shape for the fight.

Sadly, I don’t recall seeing that bloke too often. Ate himself out of contention after beating Nunn.
Dariusz UD

[keithmoonhangover]

A well trained and focused James "Lights Out" Toney is very hard to beat. Toney by decision in my estimation. That if he's in great shape for the fight.

What about the James Toney who actually fought at 175? You know, the guy who lost to Drake Thadzi and Montell Griffin.

[elmersalsa]

A well trained and focused James "Lights Out" Toney is very hard to beat. Toney by decision in my estimation. That if he's in great shape for the fight.

What about the James Toney who actually fought at 175? You know, the guy who lost to Drake Thadzi and Montell Griffin.

James "Lights Out" Toney was a bit off and disinterested after losing to Roy Jones Jr in 1994. He barely trained after that. He could have been a greater boxer but he didn't took advantage of his potential. His training for a fight was sparring. That's it. He didn't do road work, no heavy bag punching, no rope skipping, absolutely nothing.

But, at his very best, Toney was a very difficult fighter to beat. He was in a different class. With all his shortcomings in training, he makes the top 100 pound per pound great boxers of all-time.

Only few fighters in this modern era of boxing since 1990 have more fights than Toney. Toney had over 90 bouts. That's saying something.

[Seamus]

I don't think anyone disagrees with that. In this scenario though he's fighting at 175 where he never really turned in a particularly impressive performance.

[keithmoonhangover]

A well trained and focused James "Lights Out" Toney is very hard to beat. Toney by decision in my estimation. That if he's in great shape for the fight.

What about the James Toney who actually fought at 175? You know, the guy who lost to Drake Thadzi and Montell Griffin.

James "Lights Out" Toney was a bit off and disinterested after losing to Roy Jones Jr in 1994. He barely trained after that. He could have been a greater boxer but he didn't took advantage of his potential. His training for a fight was sparring. That's it. He didn't do road work, no heavy bag punching, no rope skipping, absolutely nothing.

But, at his very best, Toney was a very difficult fighter to beat. He was in a different class. With all his shortcomings in training, he makes the top 100 pound per pound great boxers of all-time.

Only few fighters in this modern era of boxing since 1990 have more fights than Toney. Toney had over 90 bouts. That's saying something.

Yes, but we are looking at the Toney who fought at 175. How does he do against Michalczewski?

[elmersalsa]

I don't think anyone disagrees with that. In this scenario though he's fighting at 175 where he never really turned in a particularly impressive performance.

He (James Toney), had a lapse of not training properly after his defeat of Roy Jones Jr. It was like he didn't care about training. His training consisted of sparring as much rounds that he can. That was it.

If he trained properly, he whups that Darius Michaelczewski every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Lights Out was in a different class.

[elmersalsa]

What about the James Toney who actually fought at 175? You know, the guy who lost to Drake Thadzi and Montell Griffin.

James "Lights Out" Toney was a bit off and disinterested after losing to Roy Jones Jr in 1994. He barely trained after that. He could have been a greater boxer but he didn't took advantage of his potential. His training for a fight was sparring. That's it. He didn't do road work, no heavy bag punching, no rope skipping, absolutely nothing.

But, at his very best, Toney was a very difficult fighter to beat. He was in a different class. With all his shortcomings in training, he makes the top 100 pound per pound great boxers of all-time.

Only few fighters in this modern era of boxing since 1990 have more fights than Toney. Toney had over 90 bouts. That's saying something.

Yes, but we are looking at the Toney who fought at 175. How does he do against Michalczewski?

He whups him every day of the week and twice on Sunday if he comes well trained. Toney had over 90 fights. It's something uncommon in today's game. And he was never stopped or knocked out. Now, imagine if he took things very seriously?

[Seamus]

What if, what if, what if. What if Tim Witherspoon trained like Rocky in Rocky IV ? What if Golota wasnt a headcase ? What if Paulie Malignaggi didnt have brittle hands ? What if Ibeabuchi and Tony Ayala weren't rapists ? What if Aaron Pryor didn't become a Coke head ?

[keithmoonhangover]

James "Lights Out" Toney was a bit off and disinterested after losing to Roy Jones Jr in 1994. He barely trained after that. He could have been a greater boxer but he didn't took advantage of his potential. His training for a fight was sparring. That's it. He didn't do road work, no heavy bag punching, no rope skipping, absolutely nothing.

But, at his very best, Toney was a very difficult fighter to beat. He was in a different class. With all his shortcomings in training, he makes the top 100 pound per pound great boxers of all-time.

Only few fighters in this modern era of boxing since 1990 have more fights than Toney. Toney had over 90 bouts. That's saying something.

Yes, but we are looking at the Toney who fought at 175. How does he do against Michalczewski?

He whups him every day of the week and twice on Sunday if he comes well trained. Toney had over 90 fights. It's something uncommon in today's game. And he was never stopped or knocked out. Now, imagine if he took things very seriously?

Nevermind what could be, how about the Toney who fought Drake Thadzi, how would he do against Dariusz?

[elmersalsa]

Yes, but we are looking at the Toney who fought at 175. How does he do against Michalczewski?

He whups him every day of the week and twice on Sunday if he comes well trained. Toney had over 90 fights. It's something uncommon in today's game. And he was never stopped or knocked out. Now, imagine if he took things very seriously?

Nevermind what could be, how about the Toney who fought Drake Thadzi, how would he do against Dariusz?

How about the James "Lights Out" Toney that fought Vassily Jirov?

[keithmoonhangover]

He whups him every day of the week and twice on Sunday if he comes well trained. Toney had over 90 fights. It's something uncommon in today's game. And he was never stopped or knocked out. Now, imagine if he took things very seriously?

Nevermind what could be, how about the Toney who fought Drake Thadzi, how would he do against Dariusz?

How about the James "Lights Out" Toney that fought Vassily Jirov?

That wasn't at 175.

[elmersalsa]

Nevermind what could be, how about the Toney who fought Drake Thadzi, how would he do against Dariusz?

How about the James "Lights Out" Toney that fought Vassily Jirov?

That wasn't at 175. :doh:

That's comes to show you that James "Lights Out" Toney was in a different class. He did much better in a higher weight class like cruiserweight against a formidable and fantastic fighter like Vassily Jirov. Jirov was no slouch. He could fight. Toney was in great shape for that bout.

You never knew what was coming out of Toney after he got beat by Roy Jones, Jr. If he was in shape, he could beat anybody from middleweight to heavyweight.

[keithmoonhangover]

How about the James "Lights Out" Toney that fought Vassily Jirov?

That wasn't at 175.

That's comes to show you that James "Lights Out" Toney was in a different class. He did much better in a higher weight class like cruiserweight against a formidable and fantastic fighter like Vassily Jirov. Jirov was no slouch. He could fight. Toney was in great shape for that bout.

You never knew what was coming out of Toney after he got beat by Roy Jones, Jr. If he was in shape, he could beat anybody from middleweight to heavyweight.

Elmer, could I just ask.... have much time in mental hospitals?

[Cojimar 1946]

Why not use the Toney from 168 where he put in great performances? A difference of a few pounds won't make any difference.

[keithmoonhangover]

Why not use the Toney from 168 where he put in great performances? A difference of a few pounds won't make any difference.

Who did he beat at 168?