Who do you think is the most overrated boxer?

[Cojimar 1946]

This is even more stupid than Cojimar's pick of Holyfield.

It's odd how he gets excused for losing to guys who did so little outside of beating him.

He's the only top 10 heavyweight Moorer ever beat. And nobody would remember Bowe had Holyfield not lost to him. Well aside from the Golota beat downs.

[Ambling Alp II]

Holyfield legacy is hurt by the loss to Moorer. He just has a lot of positives that greatly outweigh that performance.

Bowe beat several other good fighters, most of them easily.

You should actually watch the Bowe-Holyfield fights. There has not been a better heavyweight fight since their first two fights. It's obvious by watching these fights that the two were great fighters.

And no, Holyfield was not ducking the top fighters, which you were saying in an earlier post. Ridiculous of you to think that. There isn't a heavyweight in the last 45 years who fought better competition that Holyfield.

[Expug]

Evander was an absolute warrior.
Fought everyone, showed up ready to walk through hell every time out.
He showed what he was made of in the first Qwawi fight.

[gilgamesh]

Holyfield legacy is hurt by the loss to Moorer. He just has a lot of positives that greatly outweigh that performance.

Bowe beat several other good fighters, most of them easily.

You should actually watch the Bowe-Holyfield fights. There has not been a better heavyweight fight since their first two fights. It's obvious by watching these fights that the two were great fighters.

And no, Holyfield was not ducking the top fighters, which you were saying in an earlier post. Ridiculous of you to think that. There isn't a heavyweight in the last 45 years who fought better competition that Holyfield.

Other than Ali. I don't know that there's a Heavyweight AT ALL that fought better competition than Holyfield.

[Jeff_lacy_ko]

Holyfield was effin amazing

If you want to knock him for clear ped usage fine. Other than.that come on hes a beast

[Jeff_lacy_ko]

I used to think toney was overrated. Then i re-watched his career during lockdown. Hes incredible i was wrong

[p4p1]

Holyfield was effin amazing

If you want to knock him for clear ped usage fine. Other than.that come on hes a beast

That is a pretty good reason to do so.
You could never question his toughness and will to win though.

[Cojimar 1946]

Holyfield legacy is hurt by the loss to Moorer. He just has a lot of positives that greatly outweigh that performance.

Bowe beat several other good fighters, most of them easily.

You should actually watch the Bowe-Holyfield fights. There has not been a better heavyweight fight since their first two fights. It's obvious by watching these fights that the two were great fighters.

And no, Holyfield was not ducking the top fighters, which you were saying in an earlier post. Ridiculous of you to think that. There isn't a heavyweight in the last 45 years who fought better competition that Holyfield.

Bowes best wins aside from Holyfield are Tubbs and Golota. Tubbs lost via kayo to Ellis and Butler who nobody even talks about today and Golota lost to Grant who is remembered as a hypejob.

Holyfields main career positives are longevity and the wins over Tyson. It's not clear he was ever the best heavyweight in the world at any point in time. So rating him depends on how you value dominance vs longevity and how forgiving you are of his losses.

Bowe Golota 2 was an amazing fight. Doesn't make Golota a great heavyweight does it. Although had he died prior to the Lewis fight and all we had to gauge him by were the Bowe fights I suspect you would have him beating everyone today.

Golota was actually favored over Lewis I believe. People were really impressed by how he looked vs Bowe

[Ambling Alp II]

Obviously, Bowe's best non-Holyfield wins aren't as good as his wins over Holyfield. A big part of that is because Holyfield was great.
Surprised you actually saw the Bowe- Golota fights. Did know that you actually watched fights.
Watch Bowes fights. He was a superb fighter. A tall guy who could fight inside. Has some speed and could take a punch and had a lot of guys.
As for Tubbs, no he wasn't a legend. Was good in some fights, not good in others. Had great hand speed and boxing skills; little power. He did beat Page and Smith and gave Witherspoon a very close fight. Bowe had not reached his prime when he fought Tubbs, You probably didn't know this, but up and comers used to have to beat decent competition before they got a title shot. Gasp! Yes, it's true. Bowe got better after this fight. Having tough fights like this when you are young helps make you better.

Now I know you are going to look up Page, Smith and Witherspoon records and look for losses and ignore their good wins like you always do when the guys aren't your favorites. Page Smith and Witherspoon were not great fighters. They were good fighters. They had losses and bad performances. They also had some good wins and some good performances.

Not that it is important, but you are wrong about Golota being the favorite against Tyson. Tyson was the favorite.
Golota was about as inconsistent fighter as you possibly find. He was a head case. You never knew how well he would fight. He did fight well against Bowe. Some of it was aided by his fighting dirty. In the end, Bowe won.
.
Holyfield was a lot more than a guy who beat Tyson and had longevity. He was considered a great fighter by everyone before he fought Tyson. Try watching Holyfield's fights before he fought Douglas. He was great in those fights.

[keithmoonhangover]

Holyfield legacy is hurt by the loss to Moorer. He just has a lot of positives that greatly outweigh that performance.

Bowe beat several other good fighters, most of them easily.

You should actually watch the Bowe-Holyfield fights. There has not been a better heavyweight fight since their first two fights. It's obvious by watching these fights that the two were great fighters.

And no, Holyfield was not ducking the top fighters, which you were saying in an earlier post. Ridiculous of you to think that. There isn't a heavyweight in the last 45 years who fought better competition that Holyfield.

Bowes best wins aside from Holyfield are Tubbs and Golota. Tubbs lost via kayo to Ellis and Butler who nobody even talks about today and Golota lost to Grant who is remembered as a hypejob.

Holyfields main career positives are longevity and the wins over Tyson. It's not clear he was ever the best heavyweight in the world at any point in time. So rating him depends on how you value dominance vs longevity and how forgiving you are of his losses.

Bowe Golota 2 was an amazing fight. Doesn't make Golota a great heavyweight does it. Although had he died prior to the Lewis fight and all we had to gauge him by were the Bowe fights I suspect you would have him beating everyone today.

Golota was actually favored over Lewis I believe. People were really impressed by how he looked vs Bowe

I don't understand why we're supposed to forget Bowe's two wins over a first ballot hall of famer, the first of which was in Holyfield's prime.

[gilgamesh]

Plus the 1st one was the 1992 Fight of the Year. That never hurts the legacy either. When you give people a fight that will be remembered for decades.

[p4p1]

If we are going by the general public, the answer is Mike Tyson.
I can't think of anyone who is even close to being as overrated by the general population as Mike. It's been almost 40 years since he won his first world championship and there is still people who just a year ago thought he was going to smash Jake Paul before going on to steamroll the entire HW division. He was great and on his best day would be a handful for most HWs but realistically, he isn't top 10 all time.

[RScarf1]

Zsolt Erdei is overrated and I hope he never gets inducted into the Hall of Fame.

[gilgamesh]

If we are going by the general public, the answer is Mike Tyson.
I can't think of anyone who is even close to being as overrated by the general population as Mike. It's been almost 40 years since he won his first world championship and there is still people who just a year ago thought he was going to smash Jake Paul before going on to steamroll the entire HW division. He was great and on his best day would be a handful for most HWs but realistically, he isn't top 10 all time.

Yeah Mike Tyson stayed the Mike Tyson of 1988 in the minds of his fans for many many years. Even now people are positive he only lost to Jake Paul because he took a dive, and some refuse to believe that he truly couldn't beat him.

[keithmoonhangover]

Whether someone is overrated really depends on what rating you're measuring your own opinion against.

[Ambling Alp II]

If the guy is constantly mentioned as Top 10, and he isn't I guess you can say he is overrated. But how far outside the Top 10 should Tyson be rated? Don't see how he could be below about 12th. There are fighters more overrated than him.

The thing with this question is that seldom ise almost everyone going to agree. If everyone thinks someone is overrated. who is saying that he is that great?

[gilgamesh]

If the guy is constantly mentioned as Top 10, and he isn't I guess you can say he is overrated. But how far outside the Top 10 should Tyson be rated? Don't see how he could be below about 12th. There are fighters more overrated than him.

The thing with this question is that seldom ise almost everyone going to agree. If everyone thinks someone is overrated. who is saying that he is that great?

Most casuals will consider Mike Tyson as the #1 Heavyweight of all time though or 2nd only to Ali.

I don't think you'd get much argument if you rated Mike at 9 or 10, but 1 or 2 is a stretch.

[p4p1]

If the guy is constantly mentioned as Top 10, and he isn't I guess you can say he is overrated. But how far outside the Top 10 should Tyson be rated? Don't see how he could be below about 12th. There are fighters more overrated than him.

The thing with this question is that seldom ise almost everyone going to agree. If everyone thinks someone is overrated. who is saying that he is that great?

Most casuals will consider Mike Tyson as the #1 Heavyweight of all time though or 2nd only to Ali.

I don't think you'd get much argument if you rated Mike at 9 or 10, but 1 or 2 is a stretch.

This is what I was alluding to. I just did a quick list, I have Tyson somewhere between from 9-11. Even if you don't rate Tyson one or two there is no way to rate him above Lewis and Holyfield which is what the casuals do. I don't think Mike is overrated by most boxing people and he absolutely is an ATG but I can't think of anyone else who consistently pops up so high on top 10 lists between 1-4 in pop culture regularly.

[Cojimar 1946]

Plus the 1st one was the 1992 Fight of the Year. That never hurts the legacy either. When you give people a fight that will be remembered for decades.

Realistically if Bowe was great his entire legacy shouldn't hinge on the Holyfield trilogy. He should have more in the way of accomplishments. And he shouldn't have been out fought twice by Golota of all people.

Golota Bowe 2 will also be remembered for decades

[gilgamesh]

It is definitely unfortunate we never got to see more of Bowe mixing it with the bigger names, and ultimately a detriment to Bowe's legacy.

It's why he's closer to being ranked #20 or 25 all time instead of 10.

[Ambling Alp II]

I agree that Bowe would deserve to be rated higher if he had more big wins.

To be fair, Tyson would not fight him. That he ducked Lewis is a myth. He was going to fight Mercer but Mercer got upset in his previous fight. Other guys that Bowe beat looked like they had some potential before they fought Bowe but their careers did not pan out later. (Golota, Gonzalez, Hide, Donald)

And he did fight Holyfield three times. could have got at least a draw in the rematch. It's not like he just caught Holyfield on an off night like Moorer did. Or it was just one great performance by Bowe. Once he reached his prime, Bowe almost always looked good.

At the end of the day, we should rate Bowe on what he did do, not who he didn't fight. He probably should be rated around #15.

[gilgamesh]

It's definitely not a myth that he ducked Lewis. He threw his belt in the trash to avoid Lewis. That's as blatant a duck as there's ever been.

He may not have been afraid of Lennox Lewis, but Rock Newman certainly was.

[Cojimar 1946]

Obviously, Bowe's best non-Holyfield wins aren't as good as his wins over Holyfield. A big part of that is because Holyfield was great.
Surprised you actually saw the Bowe- Golota fights. Did know that you actually watched fights.
Watch Bowes fights. He was a superb fighter. A tall guy who could fight inside. Has some speed and could take a punch and had a lot of guys.
As for Tubbs, no he wasn't a legend. Was good in some fights, not good in others. Had great hand speed and boxing skills; little power. He did beat Page and Smith and gave Witherspoon a very close fight. Bowe had not reached his prime when he fought Tubbs, You probably didn't know this, but up and comers used to have to beat decent competition before they got a title shot. Gasp! Yes, it's true. Bowe got better after this fight. Having tough fights like this when you are young helps make you better.

Now I know you are going to look up Page, Smith and Witherspoon records and look for losses and ignore their good wins like you always do when the guys aren't your favorites. Page Smith and Witherspoon were not great fighters. They were good fighters. They had losses and bad performances. They also had some good wins and some good performances.

Not that it is important, but you are wrong about Golota being the favorite against Tyson. Tyson was the favorite.
Golota was about as inconsistent fighter as you possibly find. He was a head case. You never knew how well he would fight. He did fight well against Bowe. Some of it was aided by his fighting dirty. In the end, Bowe won.
.
Holyfield was a lot more than a guy who beat Tyson and had longevity. He was considered a great fighter by everyone before he fought Tyson. Try watching Holyfield's fights before he fought Douglas. He was great in those fights.

Golota was favored against Lewis not Tyson. At that point he was coming off the Bowe fights and extremely highly regarded. Obviously his stock went way down after the Lewis blowout and even more after he somehow managed to lose to Grant.

Bowes best win outside Holyfield has to be Tubbs, Golota, or Donald. All these guys lost to people that I wouldn't even rate in the top 500 all time. Maybe Johnson has a case for top 400? I've never given much thought to how someone like Grant or Butler would rate but possibly in the 700s or 800s maybe a bit lower.

Tubbs beat Smith and Page in 1985, lost to Bowe in 1991 and then lost to Butler in 1992 and Ellis in 1993 so chronologically closer to those fights than his wins over Page and Smith.

Lots of fighters from that era have individual performances where they look great. Tucker looked good vs Tyson and Douglas. Douglas looked excellent against Tyson and Williams. Ibeabuchi looked very impressive vs Byrd and Tua. You can find individual performances by these guys that look great even if they had underwhelming careers.

[keithmoonhangover]

Obviously, Bowe's best non-Holyfield wins aren't as good as his wins over Holyfield. A big part of that is because Holyfield was great.
Surprised you actually saw the Bowe- Golota fights. Did know that you actually watched fights.
Watch Bowes fights. He was a superb fighter. A tall guy who could fight inside. Has some speed and could take a punch and had a lot of guys.
As for Tubbs, no he wasn't a legend. Was good in some fights, not good in others. Had great hand speed and boxing skills; little power. He did beat Page and Smith and gave Witherspoon a very close fight. Bowe had not reached his prime when he fought Tubbs, You probably didn't know this, but up and comers used to have to beat decent competition before they got a title shot. Gasp! Yes, it's true. Bowe got better after this fight. Having tough fights like this when you are young helps make you better.

Now I know you are going to look up Page, Smith and Witherspoon records and look for losses and ignore their good wins like you always do when the guys aren't your favorites. Page Smith and Witherspoon were not great fighters. They were good fighters. They had losses and bad performances. They also had some good wins and some good performances.

Not that it is important, but you are wrong about Golota being the favorite against Tyson. Tyson was the favorite.
Golota was about as inconsistent fighter as you possibly find. He was a head case. You never knew how well he would fight. He did fight well against Bowe. Some of it was aided by his fighting dirty. In the end, Bowe won.
.
Holyfield was a lot more than a guy who beat Tyson and had longevity. He was considered a great fighter by everyone before he fought Tyson. Try watching Holyfield's fights before he fought Douglas. He was great in those fights.

Golota was favored against Lewis not Tyson. At that point he was coming off the Bowe fights and extremely highly regarded. Obviously his stock went way down after the Lewis blowout and even more after he somehow managed to lose to Grant.

Bowes best win outside Holyfield has to be Tubbs, Golota, or Donald. All these guys lost to people that I wouldn't even rate in the top 500 all time. Maybe Johnson has a case for top 400? I've never given much thought to how someone like Grant or Butler would rate but possibly in the 700s or 800s maybe a bit lower.

Tubbs beat Smith and Page in 1985, lost to Bowe in 1991 and then lost to Butler in 1992 and Ellis in 1993 so chronologically closer to those fights than his wins over Page and Smith.

Lots of fighters from that era have individual performances where they look great. Tucker looked good vs Tyson and Douglas. Douglas looked excellent against Tyson and Williams. Ibeabuchi looked very impressive vs Byrd and Tua. You can find individual performances by these guys that look great even if they had underwhelming careers.

There you go again.

[keithmoonhangover]

Obviously, Bowe's best non-Holyfield wins aren't as good as his wins over Holyfield. A big part of that is because Holyfield was great.
Surprised you actually saw the Bowe- Golota fights. Did know that you actually watched fights.
Watch Bowes fights. He was a superb fighter. A tall guy who could fight inside. Has some speed and could take a punch and had a lot of guys.
As for Tubbs, no he wasn't a legend. Was good in some fights, not good in others. Had great hand speed and boxing skills; little power. He did beat Page and Smith and gave Witherspoon a very close fight. Bowe had not reached his prime when he fought Tubbs, You probably didn't know this, but up and comers used to have to beat decent competition before they got a title shot. Gasp! Yes, it's true. Bowe got better after this fight. Having tough fights like this when you are young helps make you better.

Now I know you are going to look up Page, Smith and Witherspoon records and look for losses and ignore their good wins like you always do when the guys aren't your favorites. Page Smith and Witherspoon were not great fighters. They were good fighters. They had losses and bad performances. They also had some good wins and some good performances.

Not that it is important, but you are wrong about Golota being the favorite against Tyson. Tyson was the favorite.
Golota was about as inconsistent fighter as you possibly find. He was a head case. You never knew how well he would fight. He did fight well against Bowe. Some of it was aided by his fighting dirty. In the end, Bowe won.
.
Holyfield was a lot more than a guy who beat Tyson and had longevity. He was considered a great fighter by everyone before he fought Tyson. Try watching Holyfield's fights before he fought Douglas. He was great in those fights.

Golota was favored against Lewis not Tyson. At that point he was coming off the Bowe fights and extremely highly regarded. Obviously his stock went way down after the Lewis blowout and even more after he somehow managed to lose to Grant.

Bowes best win outside Holyfield has to be Tubbs, Golota, or Donald. All these guys lost to people that I wouldn't even rate in the top 500 all time. Maybe Johnson has a case for top 400? I've never given much thought to how someone like Grant or Butler would rate but possibly in the 700s or 800s maybe a bit lower.

Tubbs beat Smith and Page in 1985, lost to Bowe in 1991 and then lost to Butler in 1992 and Ellis in 1993 so chronologically closer to those fights than his wins over Page and Smith.

Lots of fighters from that era have individual performances where they look great. Tucker looked good vs Tyson and Douglas. Douglas looked excellent against Tyson and Williams. Ibeabuchi looked very impressive vs Byrd and Tua. You can find individual performances by these guys that look great even if they had underwhelming careers.

There you go again.

Cojimar, how does Vitali's record look if you take out his two best wins?