Heavyweights: Larry Holmes vs George Foreman

kingpawn · Post by **kingpawn** » 30 Sep 2006, 01:58

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:i think a prime frazier stands a good chance at beating foreman.

I don't. Frazier is a definite favorite of mine. But Joe had to get close to do damage, well within George's wheelhouse to even be able to land his own punches. Witness the way George would shove Joe away, especially in their first fight. He was just too big and strong for a fighter of Frazier's size and particularly his fighting style.

As for Holmes, it's hard for me to see George beating Larry, both of them at their best. Maybe in one of three or one of four Foreman manages to land a big one and parlays that into a stoppage. But the longer the fight goes, the more I just see Holmes picking him apart.

Assuming the two in their respective primes (say, the Holmes of about 1980 and Foreman when he beat Frazier the first time), I'd say Holmes wins the series three fights to one in best of five.

hawaiianpunch · Post by **hawaiianpunch** » 30 Sep 2006, 04:05

If Holmes could get up after taking that shot from Shaver's, Foreman would not KO Holmes! Holmes by UD or late TKO.

The Great John L · Post by **The Great John L** » 30 Sep 2006, 06:42

TigerMoth wrote:If I am not mistaken, Larry and George are almost the same age. So, if they fought when George was 45, Larry would have been in his 40's also. But, this is all theoretical. I guess the only way to approach it a defined way would be to consider if they fought in 1992, or if they fought in 1996 - pick a specific year and consider their age and ability at that time.

I suppose I am just saying that looking at their entire careers, I would lean slightly towards George.

Maybe I misunderstood your earlier post, because I thought you were saying that the older George would have done well against a PRIME Holmes.

barry · Post by **barry** » 30 Sep 2006, 06:45

>>>because I thought you were saying that the older George would have done well against a PRIME Holmes.<<<

I don't know...the old Foreman did pretty well against a prime Holyfield! I don't think the old Foreman would beat Holmes, but he would make it interesting. I still wish they would have had the "Geezer's at Caesars."

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 30 Sep 2006, 09:05

Holmes had the perfect style to beat Foreman... he would probably stop him late...

Cap · Post by **Cap** » 30 Sep 2006, 16:26

Recall what Foreman did with Ken Norton and how Norton did against Holmes (I'll always believe Norton deserved that decision). Foreman would walk through Holmes and knock him out. Holmes would be lucky to last three rounds.

Cap

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 30 Sep 2006, 16:47

Cap wrote:Recall what Foreman did with Ken Norton and how Norton did against Holmes (I'll always believe Norton deserved that decision). Foreman would walk through Holmes and knock him out. Holmes would be lucky to last three rounds.

Cap

How about recalling what Shavers did to Norton and what Holmes did to Shavers... twice... or what Cooney did to Norton and what Holmes did to Cooney... Norton couldnt fight going backwards while Holmes was a master at it...

Collins2000 · Post by **Collins2000** » 30 Sep 2006, 17:09

Cap wrote:Recall what Foreman did with Ken Norton and how Norton did against Holmes (I'll always believe Norton deserved that decision). Foreman would walk through Holmes and knock him out. Holmes would be lucky to last three rounds.

Cap

Norton's style was rather different to Holmes wouldn't you say? So, how does your simple analogy work? It sounds like wishful thinking to me.

I think Holmes would be well able to outbox Foreman but would always be in danger if he decided to get complacent like he did against Shavers and Snipes. If George put him down like they did I'm not sure he'd be back in charge quite as easy as he was those two times.

Regarding Foreman and Frazier, I think George had Joe's number and would beat him by brutal stoppage any time they met. I also think, unlike some respected posters, that Quarry would also get mangled by a peak Foreman; that's a fight that I do wish had been made though as it seemed a bit of a natural at the time; I recall The Ring publishing articles suggesting that Quarry was being ducked.

kick asner · Post by **kick asner** » 30 Sep 2006, 18:39

Holme's did reassume control after he was knocked down in the Snipes and Shavers fights, but only after some difficulty in beating the count. I think it was in the Snipes fight where he got up and fell back down, never a good sign. The only time I have seen a man get hit harder and still win the fight was Archie Moore against Yvonne Durrell. For some strange reason both men froze after they had Holmes on the canvas and Larry had the prescence of mind to know what to do. All I could think when Holme's was struggling to regain his feet after the Snipes knockdown was please get back up so we don't have to have Renaldo Snipes as heavyweight champion.

I agree Foreman beats Quarry. Probably by devastating knockout.

The Great John L · Post by **The Great John L** » 01 Oct 2006, 08:17

barry wrote:I don't know...the old Foreman did pretty well against a prime Holyfield! I don't think the old Foreman would beat Holmes, but he would make it interesting. I still wish they would have had the "Geezer's at Caesars."

Yes, George had an amazing performance against Holyfield, but Holy and Holmes fought entirely different styles. If you hadn't noticed, Foreman was painfully slow in his second career and did a textbook job of managing his career and avoiding anyone who could move well. Holyfield was not noted as a stick and move boxer. Remember the Moorer fight? George won, but lost just about every minute of the fight prior to the KO.

As I noted before, old George would have been a target for a prime Holmes.

kingpawn · Post by **kingpawn** » 01 Oct 2006, 22:53

kick asner wrote:Holme's did reassume control after he was knocked down in the Snipes and Shavers fights, but only after some difficulty in beating the count. I think it was in the Snipes fight where he got up and fell back down, never a good sign. The only time I have seen a man get hit harder and still win the fight was Archie Moore against Yvonne Durrell. For some strange reason both men froze after they had Holmes on the canvas and Larry had the prescence of mind to know what to do. All I could think when Holme's was struggling to regain his feet after the Snipes knockdown was please get back up so we don't have to have Renaldo Snipes as heavyweight champion.

I agree Foreman beats Quarry. Probably by devastating knockout.

What few ever mention about the Shavers knockdown of Holmes was that there wasn't much time left in the round. Holmes was saved as much, I think, because it wasn't like there was a whole minute left. I also think it was another case of Earnie wading back in with these big, wild shots and failing to land another clean blow, a problem I believe kept him from being as good a closer as he was the big, single shot puncher.

You get a guy down with a shot like that, you don't have to hit 'em with another shot like that. Just hit 'em with something, anything ... it'll probably be enough.

cosand · Post by **cosand** » 02 Oct 2006, 01:24

<<<<What few ever mention about the Shavers knockdown of Holmes was that there wasn't much time left in the round. Holmes was saved as much, I think, because it wasn't like there was a whole minute left. I also think it was another case of Earnie wading back in with these big, wild shots and failing to land another clean blow, a problem I believe kept him from being as good a closer as he was the big, single shot puncher.

You get a guy down with a shot like that, you don't have to hit 'em with another shot like that. Just hit 'em with something, anything ... it'll probably be enough.>>>>

You are 100% correct. Shavers himself siad it best after the fight when he said "I was Champ for 43 seconds"

Shavers, except for his suspect chin, was one of the best HWs never to be champ.

As to the original question.....Foremen v Holmes in their primes ?
A tough call, but I give it to Holmes by stoppage in the late rounds.

elmersalsa · Post by **elmersalsa** » 04 Oct 2006, 14:16

cosand wrote:

As to the original question.....Foremen v Holmes in their primes ?
A tough call, but I give it to Holmes by stoppage in the late rounds.

I can see the possibility of Foreman losing to Holmes, but not by KO.

Heavyweights: Larry Holmes vs George Foreman

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