British Top 30 P4P October 2006

[Horse]

1. (1.) Ricky Hatton
2. (2.) Joe Calzaghe
3. (3.) Clinton Woods
4. (6.) Junior Witter
5. (4.) Scott Harrison
6. (5.) Johnny Nelson
7. (7.) Damaen Kelly
8. (8.) Alex Arthur
9. (9.) Nicky Cook
10. (10.) Enzo Maccarinelli

11. (11.) David Haye
12. (12.) Howard Eastman
13. (13.) Wayne McCullough
14. (14.) Michael Hunter
15. (NE.) Ted Bami
16. (15.) Matt Skelton
17. (20.) Jamie Moore
18. (16.) Robin Reid
19. (17.) Esham Pickering
20. (18.) Carl Froch

21. (19.) Brian Magee
22. (21.) Danny Williams
23. (22.) Wayne Alexander
24. (23.) Scott Dann
25. (24.) Ricky Burns
26. (25.) Graham Earl
27. (26.) Kevin Anderson
28. (28.) Mark Hobson
29. (27.) Martin Power
30. (29.) Lenny Daws

Drops Out - Takaloo

[The Law]

Johnny Nelson has retired .............

[leforge]

That list could be argued all day for about a week.

[The Law]

That list could be argued all day for about a week.

True

Damaen Kelly ranked above Froch, Maccarinelli, Haye, Alex Arthur. Nicky Cook, Jamie Moore, Matt Skelton, etc, etc.

Interesting!

[stujones]

That list could be argued all day for about a week.

True

Damaen Kelly ranked above Froch, Maccarinelli, Haye, Alex Arthur. Nicky Cook, Jamie Moore, Matt Skelton, etc, etc.

Interesting!

I actually agree with Kelly being ahead of those.

Not only is Kelly well proven at European title class (something only Cook, Haye and Arthur are for sure - although I suspect the others are aswell). Kelly is also the CLEAR #1 in the devision in the UK. Only Skelton is the clear number 1 at of the fighters mentioned. Personally, I think for domestic P4P lists that is an important factor. In some circumstances (like Witter and Hatton) you will have the #1 and #2 domestically high, cause both a proven at world class.

Forget the European title loss, Kelly won that fight big.

[Horse]

Johnny Nelson has retired .............

Thank you but I am going to keep him in the list until after the Macca vs Hobson fight.

[Horse]

That list could be argued all day for about a week.

Is that good or bad?

[The Law]

Forget the European title loss, Kelly won that fight big.

A loss is a loss, you can't forget it even if he was at the end of a dodgy decision. At the end of the day he technically lost. Whereas Alex Artur won the European title and has also defended it a couple of times, same goes for Haye and Nicky Cook has defended it a few times, they are all CURRENT holders of the belt. Furthermore Michael Hunter is the current European champion and has defended it a few times

How in the hell can you condone Damaen Kelly being ranked above those guys? Who has Damean Kelly ever beaten? Has he ever beaten anyone that hasn't lost a few times before they faced him? LMFAO :P

Even Esham Pickering has won the European title and defended it a couple of times, eventually losing a controversial decision. He's on a similar level to Damean Kelly if not slighlty above him. However that one can be argued both ways.

In addition, Howard Eastman was a dominant European champion and only lost when he stepped up in class, a bit like Kelly. Nevertheless he has never lost to someone like Keith Knox in his career. This ranking is also debatable when compared with Damaen Kelly, however you may be able to argue your case here.

Even Ted Bami is a European champ now, but Damean Kelly definitely deserves to be ranked above him given his past accomplishments as ex-european champ.

[Horse]

Damaen Kelly ranked above Froch, Maccarinelli, Haye, Alex Arthur. Nicky Cook, Jamie Moore, Matt Skelton, etc, etc.

Interesting!

Where do you think Kelly should be ranked, surely not below all of those guys, plus the etc?

But I see your point and if Kelly loses his next European title shot, even if it is a robbery, he will move down below a good few of those names.

[Neri]

I know it's subjective but...

Bami ABOVE Moore ???

Ok Ted Bami has just won the European title but still. P4P Moore is a much better fighter.

[lvlarc]

Forget the European title loss, Kelly won that fight big.

A loss is a loss, you can't forget it even if he was at the end of a dodgy decision. At the end of the day he technically lost.

I disagree, I think we should talk about that fight as if it were a win for Kelly. Also Calzaghe should be ahead of Hatton

[stujones]

Forget the European title loss, Kelly won that fight big.

A loss is a loss, you can't forget it even if he was at the end of a dodgy decision. At the end of the day he technically lost. Whereas Alex Artur won the European title and has also defended it a couple of times, same goes for Haye and Nicky Cook has defended it a few times, they are all CURRENT holders of the belt. Furthermore Michael Hunter is the current European champion and has defended it a few times

How in the hell can you condone Damaen Kelly being ranked above those guys? Who has Damean Kelly ever beaten? Has he ever beaten anyone that hasn't lost a few times before they faced him? LMFAO :P

Even Esham Pickering has won the European title and defended it a couple of times, eventually losing a controversial decision. He's on a similar level to Damean Kelly if not slighlty above him. However that one can be argued both ways.

In addition, Howard Eastman was a dominant European champion and only lost when he stepped up in class, a bit like Kelly. Nevertheless he has never lost to someone like Keith Knox in his career. This ranking is also debatable when compared with Damaen Kelly, however you may be able to argue your case here.

Even Ted Bami is a European champ now, but Damean Kelly definitely deserves to be ranked above him given his past accomplishments as ex-european champ.

As an ex European champ, who never lost the title in the ring!

Kelly defended the European title on one occasion to a fighter who was a WORLD CHAMPION the year before. Also, Mahmutov, the guy he beat for the EBU title went on to regain the title and also very nearly won the world title a couple of years back.

Yes, Kelly lost in his world title bid - against the #1 (at the time) Flyweight in the world in Columbia. Okay, Eastman went to Joppy and Hopkins' back yard. But he also lost to Edison Miranda, who has just failed in a world title fight.

If you want to go back in history to pick on Kelly (mentioning the Knox loss - have you seen that fight). Then okay, Skelton two fights ago lost to a guy who got hammered at EBU level. So therefore, Skelton isn't even EBU class - no where near it, if you look at how Sam dealt with Danny.

Okay, so thats Kelly ahead of Skelton - cause at least Kelly did well losing an EBU title attempt.

Now Jamie Moore, well a few fights ago - he lost to Michael Jones, and a little before that he lost to Ossie Duran - who has struggles with fringe domestic contenders - Bradley Pryce and Colin McNeil. That is not the form of someone who is the best in their country, let alone the best in Europe.

So thats Kelly ahead of Moore, cause at least Kelly has beaten Booth (who proved himself #2 in the country by beating Robinson). There are still strong arguments for Moore to be behind Alexander (especially if you go through the Duran loses to Pryce, who loses to McDonagh cycle). There are also cases for Moore to be behind Duran cause he lost to him.

Okay whose next, Alex Arthur.... two words really Michael Gomez. The only time Kelly has not controvesially or on a technicality it was to a world champion. Michael Gomez 4 fights previous to Arthur lost to Kevin Lear and although exiting, never showed he could fight and win at EBU title level. 4 fights after Arthur, Gomez would lose again.

Although having Arthur above Kelly is acceptable.

David Haye... oh yeah he is European champion, beating a 35 year old chinny fighter who it was proven failed conclusively and consistently at world class. The two guys who Kelly BEAT in EBU title fights one was a former world champion, the other would come close at winning the title. We may lambast Maladrottu, cause Kelly made him look like a novice, but he is a long reigning EBU champion also.

Haye defences have been against people who shouldn't be fighting for the title. Haye also needs to beat Maccrinelli to prove himself as number 1 in the devision. Beats Maccrinelli then there is a case.

Froch... going quite nicely, doing well, the Magee win was good. Not an EBU champion and clearly not number #1 in the devision domestically, is he even number 2?. So far though there are only two decent wins on his resume. I repeat, Kelly beat a recently diposed world champion, has Froch done that yet? Is his wins over Barney and Magee much better than Booth and Napa?

Nicky Cook - well first off, he isn't the current EBU belt holder. Again doing okay, but who has HE really beaten. Your quick to criticise Kelly's opponents but Cook's EBU title defenses were not against a great callibre of opponent. Cyril Thomas is okay but was always strictly EBU level. Beyond Thomas, Dazzo Williams is about his best opponent. Again, I wouldn't argue with Cook being ahead - but I would like him to just prove himself a little more. Of course a win over Scott Harrison WILL do the trick.

Esham Pickering. Again I ask you to look at his resume and go - god thats a tasty win. He was brutal exposed early in his career (vs Jon Jo Irwin also) and his EBU title defensives were against guys with very padded records. One of his successful defenses was against a guy who is now 1-3 in his last 4 fights. He has also hasn't fought in 2006 yet.

Howard Eastman - Yes, arguable - just I don't like to see 0-3 and hasn't won over two years to be that high on the list. Big shout for the winner of Williams vs Eastman.

Enzo Mac - again who has he beaten to show he is even EBU title class. Surely Marcelo Dominguez has seen better days, and Mark Hobson has failed at a similar level before previously. Yes, I think he would be - but he hasn't shown it. Kelly has.

Michael Hunter - doing well, of course a win of Molitor would seal a place above Kelly. However, its a big step up. His best win is still clearly Esham Pickering and that was too close for him to be ranked alot above him.


I'm not saying I'm right to put Kelly above these, most of these responses are mearly responses to you "righting off" Kelly on the basis of the Keith Knox loss, practically 10 years ago and a technicality.

For me of the fighters mentioned in your two posts, you would be WRONG to put Skelton, Pickering, Moore, Maccrinelli, and Hunter (close though) above Kelly.

Arthur, Eastman, Cook, Haye, and Froch are open to debate, Arthur especially.

[Horse]

I know it's subjective but...

Bami ABOVE Moore ???

Ok Ted Bami has just won the European title but still. P4P Moore is a much better fighter.

Bami won the European title so I put him above the domestic level fighters, even if I thought they were better fighters P4P. If Moore wins the European title he will go way ahead of Bami in the ranking.

Perhaps I rate the European title too highly when ranking fighters, I don't know.

Also Calzaghe should be ahead of Hatton

No chance.

[Max Molyneux]

Hatton's done barely crap this year or much lately.

Calzaghe is the better fighter so no doubt he's no 1 British p4p.

Plus he's done more than Hatton no matter what opp he;s fought.

[Horse]

Hatton's done barely crap this year or much lately.

Hatton beat Maussa this year to become a two weight World title holder. Calzaghe beat Lacy to become a partially Unified champ, quite similair accomplishments.

Calzaghe is the better fighter so no doubt he's no 1 British p4p.

I doubt it, as he has not proved he is the better fighter by fighting the best opposition i.e Kessler.

Plus he's done more than Hatton no matter what opp he;s fought.

What does that mean?

[Neri]

I know it's subjective but...

Bami ABOVE Moore ???

Ok Ted Bami has just won the European title but still. P4P Moore is a much better fighter.

Bami won the European title so I put him above the domestic level fighters, even if I thought they were better fighters P4P. If Moore wins the European title he will go way ahead of Bami in the ranking.

Perhaps I rate the European title too highly when ranking fighters, I don't know.

I see what you mean but Bami didn't exactly earn his shot and came in late for the chance. Lauri was a very weak champion in my opinion. If Bami fought our British champion Meager I think he would lose. P4P terms Moore is a much better fighter. But it could go on forever...

[DG.]

1. (1.) Ricky Hatton
2. (2.) Joe Calzaghe
3. (3.) Clinton Woods
4. (6.) Junior Witter
5. (4.) Scott Harrison
6. (5.) Johnny Nelson
7. (7.) Damaen Kelly
8. (8.) Alex Arthur
9. (9.) Nicky Cook
10. (10.) Enzo Maccarinelli

11. (11.) David Haye
12. (12.) Howard Eastman
13. (13.) Wayne McCullough
14. (14.) Michael Hunter
15. (NE.) Ted Bami
16. (15.) Matt Skelton
17. (20.) Jamie Moore
18. (16.) Robin Reid
19. (17.) Esham Pickering
20. (18.) Carl Froch

21. (19.) Brian Magee
22. (21.) Danny Williams
23. (22.) Wayne Alexander
24. (23.) Scott Dann
25. (24.) Ricky Burns
26. (25.) Graham Earl
27. (26.) Kevin Anderson
28. (28.) Mark Hobson
29. (27.) Martin Power
30. (29.) Lenny Daws

Drops Out - Takaloo

Richard Wiliams should EASILY be in the top 15.


Only lost to the Number 4 rated LtMiddle in the world in Sergio Martinez.

[stujones]

I think Sergio Martinez is excellent and could give any of the champions problems, but #4 in the World?

DLH, Spinks, Karmazin, Mosley, Dzindiruk, Santos are surely ranked above him.

Forrest, Quartey, Vargas, Rivera, Simms, Ouma probably are ranked above him.

[Horse]

Richard Wiliams should EASILY be in the top 15.


Only lost to the Number 4 rated LtMiddle in the world in Sergio Martinez.

I have not followed Richard Williams career, but I looked at his record and I didn't see anything that made me think he deserved a place in the top 30.

[DG.]

I think Sergio Martinez is excellent and could give any of the champions problems, but #4 in the World?

DLH, Spinks, Karmazin, Mosley, Dzindiruk, Santos are surely ranked above him.

Forrest, Quartey, Vargas, Rivera, Simms, Ouma probably are ranked above him.

WBC Rankings.

Superwelterweight (154-69.853)


CLASIFICACION DE OCTUBRE
CON RESULTADOS
HASTA OCTUBRE 2.

RATINGS OF OCTOBER
WITH RESULTS UP TO
OCTOBER 2.

SUPERWELTERWEIGHT.- (154-69.853)
CHAMPION: OSCAR DE LA HOYA (US-MEXICO)
WON TITLE: May 6, 2006
LAST DEFENCE:
LAST COMPULSORY: May 6, 2006
WBA CHAMPION: Jose Antonio Rivera (P. Rico)
IBF CHAMPION: Cory Spinks (US)
WBO CHAMPION: Sergei Dzindziruk (Ukraine)
Contenders:
WBC INT. CHAMPION: Zaur Baysangurov (Russia)



1 .- Shane Mosley (US)
2 .- Vernon Forrest (US)
3 .- Saul Roman (Mexico)
4 .- Sergio Martinez (Argentina) LATINO
5 .- Michele Piccirillo (Italy) EBU
6 .- Giovanni Lorenzo (Dom. Rep.)
7 .- Alejandro Garcia (Mexico)
8 .- Toshiharu Kaneyama (Japan) OPBF/ABCO
9 .- Andrey Tsurkan (Ukraine) NABF
10 .- Fernando Vargas (US)

[DG.]

Richard Wiliams should EASILY be in the top 15.


Only lost to the Number 4 rated LtMiddle in the world in Sergio Martinez.

I have not followed Richard Williams career, but I looked at his record and I didn't see anything that made me think he deserved a place in the top 30.

MATE.

You need to set criteria.

RW beat several World Class fighters

Beat Shannon Taylor 6 months after Shane Mosley beat him - the same Shannon Taylor who went 12 with Arthur Abrahams in a Workd Title Fight at Middle recently..

Beat Pestraiev who twice gave Pernall Whittaker Fits ion World Titel fights (?)

Beat Andrew Murray (RIP) who fought Ike Quartey in a Woprld Title Fight.

THAT OPPOSITION IS BETTER THAN MOST ON YOUR LIST..

Criteria anyone?.

[stujones]

So that doesn't mean he is #4 in the world, cause all those fighters (except Zaur Baysangurov) mentioned above the actual rankings are not considered eligable for the WBC title.

Plus invariably, the already announced challengers (like Travis Simms) for the governing bodies other the WBC are usually ommited from the list.

If we want to talk about ranking bodies then shouldn't Gavin Rees be there, he was once considered #1 Super Feather.

[DG.]

So that doesn't mean he is #4 in the world, cause all those fighters (except Zaur Baysangurov) mentioned above the actual rankings are not considered eligable for the WBC title.

Plus invariably, the already announced challengers (like Travis Simms) for the governing bodies other the WBC are usually ommited from the list.

If we want to talk about ranking bodies then shouldn't Gavin Rees be there, he was once considered #1 Super Feather.

Mate - I dont set the ratings.

We have to use them objectively.

I think SM is an exceptionsal fighter and if he had the connections he would be a World Champion.

[Horse]

MATE.

You need to set criteria.

RW beat several World Class fighters

Beat Shannon Taylor 6 months after Shane Mosley beat him - the same Shannon Taylor who went 12 with Arthur Abrahams in a Workd Title Fight at Middle recently..

Beat Pestraiev who twice gave Pernall Whittaker Fits ion World Titel fights (?)

Beat Andrew Murray (RIP) who fought Ike Quartey in a Woprld Title Fight.

THAT OPPOSITION IS BETTER THAN MOST ON YOUR LIST..

Criteria anyone?.

http://www.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=014264

I had another look at his record and I was still not impressed, he has never beaten anyone who was true World class from what I can make out.

And why did he never fight for the British title?

[DG.]

MATE.

You need to set criteria.

RW beat several World Class fighters

Beat Shannon Taylor 6 months after Shane Mosley beat him - the same Shannon Taylor who went 12 with Arthur Abrahams in a Workd Title Fight at Middle recently..

Beat Pestraiev who twice gave Pernall Whittaker Fits ion World Titel fights (?)

Beat Andrew Murray (RIP) who fought Ike Quartey in a Woprld Title Fight.

THAT OPPOSITION IS BETTER THAN MOST ON YOUR LIST..

Criteria anyone?.

http://www.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=014264

I had another look at his record and I was still not impressed, he has never beaten anyone who was true World class from what I can make out.

And why did he never fight for the British title?

Mate - 95% of your list have never even shared a bar of chocolate with a anywhere near Worlkd class fighter.

Put the name of the WORLD CLASS FIGHTER THAT ANYONE I N YOUR LIST HAS FACED.


CALZAGHE

HATTON

SCOTT HARRISON

WITTER

NELSON

DANNY WILLIAMS

ROBIN REID

EASTMAN

KELLY


Who else has fought better fighters than RW?.

He could not get Wayne Alexander in the ring When TRW had the Commonwealth and WA the British - Barry Hearn had the IBO title for him to challenge for.