No Mas: 45 Years Later. What Really Did Happened in New Orleans?

[elmersalsa]

Leonard absolutely won in more dominant fashion, I don't have to change the narrative. That IS the narrative.

Sugar Ray Leonard didn't do much of anything. He didn't dominate. He was winning the fight, but not dominating the fight. That's YOUR narrative.

Pretty dominant when you make the other guy quit I'd say.

Pretty dominant? Sugar Ray didn't do much. All he did was the clowning in round 7. I don't know what fight were you watching.

Did you see fight #1?

[elmersalsa]

If you ask Google. What are Boxing writers comments on Leonard vs Duran 2?

This is the response you get.

Boxing writers universally recall Leonard vs. Duran 2 ("No Más") as a tactical masterclass by Sugar Ray Leonard, who frustrated Roberto Durán with superior movement and speed after learning from their first brawl, leading Durán to quit due to a mix of dehydration, frustration, and perhaps a lack of will, though some writers emphasize Leonard's boxing brilliance and Durán's poor shape as key factors, cementing it as a legendary, controversial moment where Leonard reclaimed his title and status.

As I said before, they can write anything to make money. If their mamas were fighting, these writers would sell their own mamas for a buck for the sake of "good journalism".

The fight was far from Sugar Ray being dominant. He didn't do anything. Just run around the ring. The fight was still close in "fighting his fight" against a man that wasn't even prepared and BETRAYED in the fight.

Roberto could have fainted in that ring. It was a miracle that he lasted 8 rounds.

[elmersalsa]

The master class were Mike Trainer and Don King. They flew to Panama to lure the greedy old bastard Carlos Eleta. Thanks to Eleta, Sugar Ray got his title back.

[keithmoonhangover]

what really happened behind closed doors.

If it happened behind closed doors, then the only people who know what really happened are the people who were in the room. Thanks for clearing that up.

Elmer, how do you know what happened if it was behind closed doors?

[gilgamesh]

If you ask Google. What are Boxing writers comments on Leonard vs Duran 2?

This is the response you get.

Boxing writers universally recall Leonard vs. Duran 2 ("No Más") as a tactical masterclass by Sugar Ray Leonard, who frustrated Roberto Durán with superior movement and speed after learning from their first brawl, leading Durán to quit due to a mix of dehydration, frustration, and perhaps a lack of will, though some writers emphasize Leonard's boxing brilliance and Durán's poor shape as key factors, cementing it as a legendary, controversial moment where Leonard reclaimed his title and status.

As I said before, they can write anything to make money. If their mamas were fighting, these writers would sell their own mamas for a buck for the sake of "good journalism".

The fight was far from Sugar Ray being dominant. He didn't do anything. Just run around the ring. The fight was still close in "fighting his fight" against a man that wasn't even prepared and BETRAYED in the fight.

Roberto could have fainted in that ring. It was a miracle that he lasted 8 rounds.

But when I said that Leonard had dominated Duran you claimed that I "changed the narrative"

As you can see. According to the Press. Leonard dominated Duran in the rematch IS the narrative. You don't have to like it, but it's a fact.

[hhaehre]

Sugar Ray Leonard didn't do much of anything. He didn't dominate. He was winning the fight, but not dominating the fight. That's YOUR narrative.

Pretty dominant when you make the other guy quit I'd say.

Pretty dominant? Sugar Ray didn't do much. All he did was the clowning in round 7. I don't know what fight were you watching.

I watched the one where Duran quit. I guess he quit because he was doing great?

[elmersalsa]

Pretty dominant when you make the other guy quit I'd say.

Pretty dominant? Sugar Ray didn't do much. All he did was the clowning in round 7. I don't know what fight were you watching.

I watched the one where Duran quit. I guess he quit because he was doing great?

Nuff said. You didn't watch the first. That's what the American media wants you to watch. The No Mas fiasco is talked about more than the first fight. It's incredible.

[elmersalsa]

If you ask Google. What are Boxing writers comments on Leonard vs Duran 2?

This is the response you get.

Boxing writers universally recall Leonard vs. Duran 2 ("No Más") as a tactical masterclass by Sugar Ray Leonard, who frustrated Roberto Durán with superior movement and speed after learning from their first brawl, leading Durán to quit due to a mix of dehydration, frustration, and perhaps a lack of will, though some writers emphasize Leonard's boxing brilliance and Durán's poor shape as key factors, cementing it as a legendary, controversial moment where Leonard reclaimed his title and status.

As I said before, they can write anything to make money. If their mamas were fighting, these writers would sell their own mamas for a buck for the sake of "good journalism".

The fight was far from Sugar Ray being dominant. He didn't do anything. Just run around the ring. The fight was still close in "fighting his fight" against a man that wasn't even prepared and BETRAYED in the fight.

Roberto could have fainted in that ring. It was a miracle that he lasted 8 rounds.

But when I said that Leonard had dominated Duran you claimed that I "changed the narrative"

As you can see. According to the Press. Leonard dominated Duran in the rematch IS the narrative. You don't have to like it, but it's a fact.

He didn't dominate crap, to be honest and with a clean language with you. All he did was the 7th round that he won clearly. But, before that, he wasn't dominating at all. That is yours and the American boxing media narrative.

Roberto Duran was in the fight. When he quit, it was a shock to a lot of people. Esteban De Jesus did much better than Sugar Ray Leonard and still, he didn't dominate Duran. That's the only fight that Duran really lost in his prime.

[gilgamesh]

According to Google "Boxing Writers Universally Recall Leonard vs Duran 2 as a tactical masterclass by Ray Leonard"

elmer: "That is yours and American Boxing media narrative"

Thick as a Brick

[elmersalsa]

According to Google "Boxing Writers Universally Recall Leonard vs Duran 2 as a tactical masterclass by Ray Leonard"

elmer: "That is yours and American Boxing media narrative"

Thick as a Brick

If that was a master class by Sugar Ray Leonard, then what was Esteban De Jesus performance against a prime Roberto Duran?

Because in my view, De Jesus beat him much more convincgly. He didn't had to pay Duran's manager any money. His management team did go to Panama and paid Carlos Eleta to sign the dotted line. It was a categorical win by De Jesus. He even dropped Duran in the first round.

[gilgamesh]

And remember Leonard is one of your favorite fighters right elmer? Don't change the narrative

[goose 5]

Cosell expressed disapproval of Leonard for taunting Duran in round 7. I was surprised by this cause Leonard was Cosell's guy.

[keithmoonhangover]

what really happened behind closed doors.

If it happened behind closed doors, then the only people who know what really happened are the people who were in the room. Thanks for clearing that up.

Elmer, how do you know what happened if it was behind closed doors?

[elmersalsa]

And remember Leonard is one of your favorite fighters right elmer? Don't change the narrative

Sugar Ray Leonard is one of my favorite boxers. Believe it or not. I don't hate him one bit. Just like I love Roberto Duran, Muhammad Ali, Eusebio Pedroza, Vicente Saldivar, Julio Cesar Chavez and James Toney. They are my favorite boxers.

[elmersalsa]

Also, I love Bobby Chacon. What a warrior he was.

[gilgamesh]

Also, I love Bobby Chacon. What a warrior he was.

How could you not? One of the most exciting fighters of all time. I'm a big fan of Bobby as well.

[goose 5]

Include me too as a Bobby C. fan.

[hhaehre]

Pretty dominant? Sugar Ray didn't do much. All he did was the clowning in round 7. I don't know what fight were you watching.

I watched the one where Duran quit. I guess he quit because he was doing great?

Nuff said. You didn't watch the first. That's what the American media wants you to watch. The No Mas fiasco is talked about more than the first fight. It's incredible.

I didn't watch the first fight? Wtf are you talking about?
First fight was a close points win for Duran, second fight a tko for Sugar Ray. Am I wrong here? Maybe Duran knocked out Ray in that first fight?

[gilgamesh]

I watched the one where Duran quit. I guess he quit because he was doing great?

Nuff said. You didn't watch the first. That's what the American media wants you to watch. The No Mas fiasco is talked about more than the first fight. It's incredible.

I didn't watch the first fight? Wtf are you talking about?
First fight was a close points win for Duran, second fight a tko for Sugar Ray. Am I wrong here? Maybe Duran knocked out Ray in that first fight?

And then the 3rd fight was a lopsided decision for Leonard as well. I think Duran won maybe 1 or 2 rounds in the 3rd fight. Really just 1 as I recall.

[elmersalsa]

I watched the one where Duran quit. I guess he quit because he was doing great?

Nuff said. You didn't watch the first. That's what the American media wants you to watch. The No Mas fiasco is talked about more than the first fight. It's incredible.

I didn't watch the first fight? Wtf are you talking about?
First fight was a close points win for Duran, second fight a tko for Sugar Ray. Am I wrong here? Maybe Duran knocked out Ray in that first fight?

Duran just quit. The first fight, Duran kicked his azz!

[hhaehre]

Nuff said. You didn't watch the first. That's what the American media wants you to watch. The No Mas fiasco is talked about more than the first fight. It's incredible.

I didn't watch the first fight? Wtf are you talking about?
First fight was a close points win for Duran, second fight a tko for Sugar Ray. Am I wrong here? Maybe Duran knocked out Ray in that first fight?

Duran just quit. The first fight, Duran kicked his azz!

I loved to watch Duran, and in that first fight I think he put on one of finest performances I have ever seen. He was truly great that night.
In the second fight he embarrassed himself, simple as that. All the excuses in the world doesn't change the fact that it was Duran who decided to quit. And I agree with you, he wasn't taking a beating in that second fight, but that just makes it worse.

[Ambling Alp II]

I watched the one where Duran quit. I guess he quit because he was doing great?

Nuff said. You didn't watch the first. That's what the American media wants you to watch. The No Mas fiasco is talked about more than the first fight. It's incredible.

I didn't watch the first fight? Wtf are you talking about?
First fight was a close points win for Duran, second fight a tko for Sugar Ray. Am I wrong here? Maybe Duran knocked out Ray in that first fight?

Yes that is what happened.
First fight, Duran won a close decision.
2nd fight, Leonard outboxed Duran. Duran quit. His own trainers said that there was no real excuse.

A couple of things:
1. elmer is lying when he says he like Leonard. He is saying that because he thinks people might actually think he is unbiased. He hates Leonard. He once said that Leonard is not a "real fighter". That is all we need to know.

2. elmer likes to say that Duran kicked Leonard's ass in the first fight. That is how he always phrases it. Yet in a weak moment, he once said that when he scored the fight, he had Duran up by 3 points. # points in a 15 round fight is close. It's nowhere near ass kicking.

Bottom line, TKO8 trumps a 3-point decision win.

[elmersalsa]

Nuff said. You didn't watch the first. That's what the American media wants you to watch. The No Mas fiasco is talked about more than the first fight. It's incredible.

I didn't watch the first fight? Wtf are you talking about?
First fight was a close points win for Duran, second fight a tko for Sugar Ray. Am I wrong here? Maybe Duran knocked out Ray in that first fight?

Yes that is what happened.
First fight, Duran won a close decision.
2nd fight, Leonard outboxed Duran. Duran quit. His own trainers said that there was no real excuse.

A couple of things:
1. elmer is lying when he says he like Leonard. He is saying that because he thinks people might actually think he is unbiased. He hates Leonard. He once said that Leonard is not a "real fighter". That is all we need to know.

2. elmer likes to say that Duran kicked Leonard's ass in the first fight. That is how he always phrases it. Yet in a weak moment, he once said that when he scored the fight, he had Duran up by 3 points. # points in a 15 round fight is close. It's nowhere near ass kicking.

Bottom line, TKO8 trumps a 3-point decision win.

Here comes, Ambling Alp again!

Roberto Duran kicked Sugar Ray's azz! That's a fact. Look at Sugar Ray's face before and after the first fight. His own mama couldn't recognize him. Give Duran credit for giving him a whupping. Nobody has ever done that to Sugar Ray in his prime. Nobody.

That's why they wanted the rematch so quickly because in their eyes, Duran was a an uneducated bully, with no class without speaking the English language. It was UNACCEPTABLE in America's eyes for Duran to be The Face of Boxing.

Not only Duran whupped him, he disrespected Sugar Ray's wife in his face (something that I don't condone by no means), whupped him, and embarrassed America because he whupped their Golden Boy, America's Darling. That was UNACCEPTABLE!

They had to get back at Duran as quick as possible. Well, Sugar Ray and his manager, Mike Trainer planned a BEAUTIFUL STRATEGY. With Duran's promoter Don King, they flew HUSH-HUSH to Panama City to negotiate with Carlos Eleta, Duran's manager. Duran wasn't even around the country.

Why they flew to Panama without Duran knowing it?
Why they offered Eleta that hefty sum that the greedy bastard wasn't going to pass that up? He never in his dreams made that type of money at one shot, in boxing. And when the greedy bastard took the money and signed the dotted line, why he never considered nor consulted Roberto about before taking the money? Ain't he supposed to look after Roberto's best interests?

Because it was an ambush raw deal the three of them created to make much more money for a third fight. Those were the INTENTIONS. A third fight, would have given each fighter at least $15 to $20 million if Duran loses. It just happened that Duran messed it up by quitting.

The fight was won once Eleta's greedy old ass signed the dotted line. It was one of the greatest betrayals in the history of boxing. Never in the history of boxing, a manager travels to another country to offer a hefty amount of money to another manager. That has never happened before nor since. And never in the history of boxing, a manager has ever betrayed his own fighter to put him in a position to lose. He KNEW that Duran wasn't ready to fight in a short time.

Duran called for time to Don King and King declined his petition. Why? Ain't Duran the champion of the world? Ain't Duran his fighter? Where was the respect? There was none.

Before the first round began, Duran KNEW that he was not going to win the shape he was in. He KNEW that he got screwed in the azz by his own people. Sugar Ray KNEW that Duran wasn't at his best shape. It's not Sugar Ray's fault but Eleta's.

Duran quit because he saw the BULL CRAP between the lines. He was out of shape, betrayed and humiliated. Not because he had "stomach cramps". He saw that nothing was on his way. On his favor. So he quit.

It was a damn shame because Sugar Ray trained his ass off. And he was showing excellent skills. But, he wasn't winning by far like others think. Duran was IN THE FIGHT. He quit because he knew that he didn't had the shape to go 15 rounds. He wasn't going to let Sugar Ray knock him out. It was a MIRACLE that he went 8 rounds! He could have died in that ring by exhaustion.

[elmersalsa]

I didn't watch the first fight? Wtf are you talking about?
First fight was a close points win for Duran, second fight a tko for Sugar Ray. Am I wrong here? Maybe Duran knocked out Ray in that first fight?

Duran just quit. The first fight, Duran kicked his azz!

I loved to watch Duran, and in that first fight I think he put on one of finest performances I have ever seen. He was truly great that night.
In the second fight he embarrassed himself, simple as that. All the excuses in the world doesn't change the fact that it was Duran who decided to quit. And I agree with you, he wasn't taking a beating in that second fight, but that just makes it worse.

I am glad that you recognized that Sugar Ray wasn't dominating nor taking Roberto Duran to a master class. Duran wasn't hurt. Duran wasn't cut. He looked that he was still in the fight.

But, he quit. That's what hurts. He quit. Duran has quit. Duran has quit. Duran has quit. There's no longer an explanation. He couldn't solve a problem named Leonard. He was out of shape, gassed out and he felt that nothing was going his way physically nor mentally and he saw the bullshit between the lines because he knew that he was betrayed. He could have FAINTED on that night. It was a miracle he lasted 8 rounds.

Sugar Ray didn't had to win this way. He knew that he didn't get the honor by beating Duran. He knew that he manipulated the whole thing. He knew that he had help from outside sources. He never proved that he could beat Duran in Duran's best shape. That's were it hurts for Sugar Ray. It wasn't a win that he really won like he wanted.

Whatever Duran calls it. That defeat hunted him forever. But, the beautiful thing of all, was that HE REDEEMED HIMSELF despite the fiasco. And that's what great champions do. If he would have never come back after No Mas and win two more titles, his standing in the top 10 would have never happened. He would have been ranked like in position 25 or 30 if he never came back like he did.

But, the way he redeemed himself, it's a stuff of legends. He definitely to me, is a top 5 all-time pound per pound great boxer. Nuff said.

[hhaehre]

Sugar Ray didn't had to win this way. He knew that he didn't get the honor by beating Duran. He knew that he manipulated the whole thing. He knew that he had help from outside sources. He never proved that he could beat Duran in Duran's best shape. That's were it hurts for Sugar Ray. It wasn't a win that he really won like he wanted.

This is just utter bs. Leonard was very pleased with having made Duran quit in the ring, as well he should be.