BBC article - Steve Wood, Steve Goodwin on the increasing struggles of small-hall boxing

[dookus]

https://www.bbc.com/sport/boxing/articles/c0kdrd1zkmzo

TV shows are still happening in the UK but there have been fewer in the UK over the past two years as Saudi Arabian money has flooded the sport.

"The Saudis put on a card with six big fights - that's six shows you'd have as top of the bill in the UK," said Wood. "That's six shows you're losing.

"It is all really good for the bigger name fighters who are getting more money, but it stops the development of these small-hall kids to get on the TV shows."
...
Goodwin sees numerous reasons why it is becoming harder for small-hall boxing.

The cost of living has impacted on ticket sales. Interest has been affected by changes in television rights.

"People are poorer, generally in life, I'm a financial adviser by trade and the average working man is poorer," said Goodwin, who is based in Leighton Buzzard, Bedfordshire.

"We're definitely seeing a big negative on ticket sales, not only from boxers, but from what we can sell generally to the public."
...
Wood also thinks there's more competition for those with a thirst for watching boxing.

"Now 'White Collar' isn't something that has just come up, it has been around a while but it is more popular now, then there's Misfits and other events," he said.

Mid-level pro boxing seems to be where mid-level music venues (e.g. the Brudenell Social Club in Leeds) are - being kept alive by volunteers with the financial means to support it

[Glass Joe]

I used to go to alot of shows but now I go to local wrestling shows instead. Uk shows are pretty rubbish on a standard.

[knockout]

As the main article says the Saudi shows have made things even worse domestically.

I think there was only one big London show this year ?

Case in point Denzel Bentley .. hasn’t fought for over a year. That, despite being a popular, exciting fighter who sells tickets & as of his last fight held the British , European & WBO belts.

( there will be others, but he is just one guy I follow closely)

[Wales]

Hard to get excited when a huge proportion of the fights involve a “home” fighter against an opponent with a record of something like 1 win and 65 losses who turns up with the sole ambition to lose without being knocked out.

[Wales]

How does the sport allow fighters who have won 1 out of 70 fights and turn up to LOSE without getting KOd.

Is there any other sport which allows one of the two contestants to turn up and not only purposefully lose, but lose in a manner that showcases the worst possible version of the sport.

[KiwiRider]

In NZ we have a mix of white collar and pro boxing all in a fight filled night.
The corporate boxing as it is called here I've been told pays for 2/3rds of the event.
Corporations buy tables for their customers managers, it's quite expensive but quality position and waiter service and a full three course meal.
The white collar fighters pay to fight, it's not a lot but every little helps. They have maybe four x 3 round of those right at the start. Then the pro boxing.
There will always be a HW fight, often a couple of blobs slogging away until one hits the deck.
Then maybe three pro fights usually local titles so fairly close.
And then there are the cheap seats around the tables where you sit where you sit. No further than 50 feet from the apron.
Beers £3.20 in glass bottles!
Soda £2.50
Pies £2.50 and they are nice.
There's wine but I don't know how much but it comes from a cardboard box so probably cheap
Kids under 15 free accompanied.

And these sell out.
If you have two kids, this can be an evening out for 4 at under £100

[pat123]

Same as a lot on here, I used to go to a lot of small hall shows. But when the top of the bill fights are 8 rounders with a journeyman, that was enough. I will travel to the York Hall if there is a title fight still think that is worth it.

[SeanBrennan]

Good article that, were they saying they lose money putting shows on (where they quote the cost of a card)?

[Greg Houston]

Good article that, were they saying they lose money putting shows on (where they quote the cost of a card)?

Pretty much. It's always been my understanding that without TV money it's near impossible to make a profit running a pro show.

[Coco]

Not really news

You can make a profit without TV but you need big ticket sellers.

The dinner show circuit has survived well enough too.

Remember, just with local TV, who don't pay a bean, a bit of sponsorship is then much easier to come by, and is often the difference between profit and loss

[veriton]

Hardly surprising after they went down the vanity bout route rather than the sporting route. They've tried to pass off rubbish as boxing to people who dont know any better. I last went to a small hall show about 10 years ago and it was 60-54 city.

Some of the televised ones are decent as there is some quality control being exerted by the TV companies. But the ones without are often laughable.

[SeanBrennan]

Good article that, were they saying they lose money putting shows on (where they quote the cost of a card)?

Pretty much. It's always been my understanding that without TV money it's near impossible to make a profit running a pro show.

Thank you Greg

[SeanBrennan]

Not really news

You can make a profit without TV but you need big ticket sellers.

The dinner show circuit has survived well enough too.

Remember, just with local TV, who don't pay a bean, a bit of sponsorship is then much easier to come by, and is often the difference between profit and loss

Do some of them get local TV Coco? My knowledge here is zero.

[smiling assassin]

A few years ago now a fighter out of the same gym as me turned over and I asked him why is he turning over before he tested himself in the elites and with a complete straight face said he wouldn’t get out of our region and he had a chance to win a belt on the unlicensed scene. He went to box on an unlicensed show for a belt against someone who wouldn’t have been entered to box in the under 10 developments. He came back to our gym to show off the belt to all the young kids, the coaches and the seasoned seniors thought it was cringe as we knew the score. He was happy to turn over after that and fight a load of journeyman though whilst selling 200 tickets a fight, until the first time he faced someone with a winning record he lost and never boxed again. Small hall boxing boxing needs fighters like this to survive that’s the long and short of it

[JamesPhilips]

A few years ago now a fighter out of the same gym as me turned over and I asked him why is he turning over before he tested himself in the elites and with a complete straight face said he wouldn’t get out of our region and he had a chance to win a belt on the unlicensed scene. He went to box on an unlicensed show for a belt against someone who wouldn’t have been entered to box in the under 10 developments. He came back to our gym to show off the belt to all the young kids, the coaches and the seasoned seniors thought it was cringe as we knew the score. He was happy to turn over after that and fight a load of journeyman though whilst selling 200 tickets a fight, until the first time he faced someone with a winning record he lost and never boxed again. Small hall boxing boxing needs fighters like this to survive that’s the long and short of it

Is this a serious post?

[smiling assassin]

A few years ago now a fighter out of the same gym as me turned over and I asked him why is he turning over before he tested himself in the elites and with a complete straight face said he wouldn’t get out of our region and he had a chance to win a belt on the unlicensed scene. He went to box on an unlicensed show for a belt against someone who wouldn’t have been entered to box in the under 10 developments. He came back to our gym to show off the belt to all the young kids, the coaches and the seasoned seniors thought it was cringe as we knew the score. He was happy to turn over after that and fight a load of journeyman though whilst selling 200 tickets a fight, until the first time he faced someone with a winning record he lost and never boxed again. Small hall boxing boxing needs fighters like this to survive that’s the long and short of it

Is this a serious post?

Why would it not be. It’s fighters like this that make up small hall shows, it’s no wonder to see why small hall shows struggle

[mickey1975]

A few years ago now a fighter out of the same gym as me turned over and I asked him why is he turning over before he tested himself in the elites and with a complete straight face said he wouldn’t get out of our region and he had a chance to win a belt on the unlicensed scene. He went to box on an unlicensed show for a belt against someone who wouldn’t have been entered to box in the under 10 developments. He came back to our gym to show off the belt to all the young kids, the coaches and the seasoned seniors thought it was cringe as we knew the score. He was happy to turn over after that and fight a load of journeyman though whilst selling 200 tickets a fight, until the first time he faced someone with a winning record he lost and never boxed again. Small hall boxing boxing needs fighters like this to survive that’s the long and short of it

Is this a serious post?

It sounds a very probable scenario.

[Coco]

Not really news

You can make a profit without TV but you need big ticket sellers.

The dinner show circuit has survived well enough too.

Remember, just with local TV, who don't pay a bean, a bit of sponsorship is then much easier to come by, and is often the difference between profit and loss

Do some of them get local TV Coco? My knowledge here is zero.

I know in the 90's, in Wales, they would televise a show, not pay for it, but the extra from advertising made it worthwhile.
Pretty sure it was the same in Scotland too.
Local TV were putting on Enzo Mac before he ran into Lee Swaby

[Coco]

A few years ago now a fighter out of the same gym as me turned over and I asked him why is he turning over before he tested himself in the elites and with a complete straight face said he wouldn’t get out of our region and he had a chance to win a belt on the unlicensed scene. He went to box on an unlicensed show for a belt against someone who wouldn’t have been entered to box in the under 10 developments. He came back to our gym to show off the belt to all the young kids, the coaches and the seasoned seniors thought it was cringe as we knew the score. He was happy to turn over after that and fight a load of journeyman though whilst selling 200 tickets a fight, until the first time he faced someone with a winning record he lost and never boxed again. Small hall boxing boxing needs fighters like this to survive that’s the long and short of it

Is this a serious post?

It sounds a very probable scenario.

Sounds about right

[SeanBrennan]

Not really news

You can make a profit without TV but you need big ticket sellers.

The dinner show circuit has survived well enough too.

Remember, just with local TV, who don't pay a bean, a bit of sponsorship is then much easier to come by, and is often the difference between profit and loss

Do some of them get local TV Coco? My knowledge here is zero.

I know in the 90's, in Wales, they would televise a show, not pay for it, but the extra from advertising made it worthwhile.
Pretty sure it was the same in Scotland too.
Local TV were putting on Enzo Mac before he ran into Lee Swaby

Cheers Coco

Ironically I remember watching Enzo v Swaby as it was on the BBC, can still remember the commentary.

[Tarquin Tarpaulin IV]

How does the sport allow fighters who have won 1 out of 70 fights and turn up to LOSE without getting KOd.

Is there any other sport which allows one of the two contestants to turn up and not only purposefully lose, but lose in a manner that showcases the worst possible version of the sport.

That's it in a nutshell I'd suggest that most of the supporters for fledgling pro's don't even realise that their ticket selling mate won't be losing his first dozen fights.

Amateur shows can be padded out with no decision skills bouts.

BOXCUPS are becoming the norm so the chances of building a local following are reduced.

The sports in a mess.

[Coco]

Do some of them get local TV Coco? My knowledge here is zero.

I know in the 90's, in Wales, they would televise a show, not pay for it, but the extra from advertising made it worthwhile.
Pretty sure it was the same in Scotland too.
Local TV were putting on Enzo Mac before he ran into Lee Swaby

Cheers Coco

Ironically I remember watching Enzo v Swaby as it was on the BBC, can still remember the commentary.

Maybe the BBC did invest some money in him, but I think it was to get him on home shows, he didn't earn anything like he did with FW

[mickey1975]

How does the sport allow fighters who have won 1 out of 70 fights and turn up to LOSE without getting KOd.

Is there any other sport which allows one of the two contestants to turn up and not only purposefully lose, but lose in a manner that showcases the worst possible version of the sport.

That's it in a nutshell I'd suggest that most of the supporters for fledgling pro's don't even realise that their ticket selling mate won't be losing his first dozen fights.

Amateur shows can be padded out with no decision skills bouts.

BOXCUPS are becoming the norm so the chances of building a local following are reduced.

The sports in a mess.

My young mate, who is a journeyman, and I speak to him in the sauna at the fitness gym a few times a week has a plan. He doesn’t get decisions so he's going to stop all the prospects, that way all the top promoters will have to take notice.

[KiwiRider]

How does the sport allow fighters who have won 1 out of 70 fights and turn up to LOSE without getting KOd.

Is there any other sport which allows one of the two contestants to turn up and not only purposefully lose, but lose in a manner that showcases the worst possible version of the sport.

That's it in a nutshell I'd suggest that most of the supporters for fledgling pro's don't even realise that their ticket selling mate won't be losing his first dozen fights.

Amateur shows can be padded out with no decision skills bouts.

BOXCUPS are becoming the norm so the chances of building a local following are reduced.

The sports in a mess.

My young mate, who is a journeyman, and I speak to him in the sauna at the fitness gym a few times a week has a plan. He doesn’t get decisions so he's going to stop all the prospects, that way all the top promoters will have to take notice.

He's probably only going to get to do that twice, before they realise the first time wasn't an accident.
Then no more work.

[SeanBrennan]

I know in the 90's, in Wales, they would televise a show, not pay for it, but the extra from advertising made it worthwhile.
Pretty sure it was the same in Scotland too.
Local TV were putting on Enzo Mac before he ran into Lee Swaby

Cheers Coco

Ironically I remember watching Enzo v Swaby as it was on the BBC, can still remember the commentary.

Maybe the BBC did invest some money in him, but I think it was to get him on home shows, he didn't earn anything like he did with FW