Salvador Sanchez & Wilfred Benitez

[Taansend]

I went on a hike up a mountain today (5100 feet) & as I was climbing random thoughts flutter through my head.

Many people say that Salvador Sanchez is the greatest Mexican fighter of all time. What would people have said if Wilfred Benitez had died at the same age?

So I had a quick look & Benitez was born just 4 months before Sanchez.

Benitez won his first title, aged 17, in March 1976, Sanchez February 1980. Both beat well respected Champions.

When Sanchez died in 1982 his record was 44-1-1 with 32 KOs.

At that exact same time Benitez's record was also 44-1-1 with 29 KOs.

Sanchez had just beaten future great Azumah Nelson whereas Benitez had just beaten past AND future great Roberto Duran.

So, if Wilfred had crashed his Porsche into a tree back in 1982, how would we have viewed him, because soon after that he lost to Tommy Hearns & never reached the very top level again.

Anyway, I'd love to hear any feedback from you chaps.

[cfang]

He would be much more famous and viewed by many as an all time p4p top 20 or even top 10.

[Taansend]

He would be much more famous and viewed by many as an all time p4p top 20 or even top 10.

Yeah, probably.

It's remarkable how similar their records were at that point.

[elmersalsa]

Wilfred Benitez was a fantastic fighter. But if he would have died in the date after he beat the great Roberto Duran, still wouldn't match Salvador Sanchez accomplishments. Why?

In the biggest night of his career, Benitez lost by KO against Sugar Ray Leonard. It was a masterful fight, but Leonard was better.

But, Sanchez, in the biggest night of his career, he performed like real champions do. He totally dominated and kicked the great Wilfredo "Bazooka" Gomez's behind in a great exhibition of courage, grit, technical flawless and endurance. He was at all cylinders that night. It was probably Mexico's greatest night in boxing.

That's why people wonder if Sanchez never had that fatal fate, how far could have he gone? He didn't had much left fighters to conquer. Eusebio Pedroza and Alexis Arguello were his last 2 great boxers and probably a rematch with Azumah Nelson in the horizon. And probably maybe, maybe, a fight against the great Julio Cesar Chavez on the works too. If he would have beaten those guys, he would have had a hell of a resume, probably top 10 or 15. I would not be surprised top 5.

[Taansend]

Wilfred Benitez was a fantastic fighter. But if he would have died in the date after he beat the great Roberto Duran, still wouldn't match Salvador Sanchez accomplishments. Why?

In the biggest night of his career, Benitez lost by KO against Sugar Ray Leonard. It was a masterful fight, but Leonard was better.

But, Sanchez, in the biggest night of his career, he performed like real champions do. He totally dominated and kicked the great Wilfredo "Bazooka" Gomez's behind in a great exhibition of courage, grit, technical flawless and endurance. He was at all cylinders that night. It was probably Mexico's greatest night in boxing.

That's why people wonder if Sanchez never had that fatal fate, how far could have he gone? He didn't had much left fighters to conquer. Eusebio Pedroza and Alexis Arguello were his last 2 great boxers and probably a rematch with Azumah Nelson in the horizon. And probably maybe, maybe, a fight against the great Julio Cesar Chavez on the works too. If he would have beaten those guys, he would have had a hell of a resume, probably top 10 or 15. I would not be surprised top 5.

But if he had lost the rematch to the improving Nelson & then had a spotty career after that (& we've seen that happen time after time) then we wouldn't be having multiple videos proclaiming him the best Mexican ever.

Plus, Benitez's loss was a last round stoppage against one of the top ten of all time. If he'd died after Duran we'd all be wondering how the rematch with Sugar Ray would have gone etc etc.

Obviously this is all conjecture on our part but you swung the scenario in Sanchez's direction. It could have gone the other way too.

p.s. thanks for the great reply.

[elmersalsa]

Wilfred Benitez was a fantastic fighter. But if he would have died in the date after he beat the great Roberto Duran, still wouldn't match Salvador Sanchez accomplishments. Why?

In the biggest night of his career, Benitez lost by KO against Sugar Ray Leonard. It was a masterful fight, but Leonard was better.

But, Sanchez, in the biggest night of his career, he performed like real champions do. He totally dominated and kicked the great Wilfredo "Bazooka" Gomez's behind in a great exhibition of courage, grit, technical flawless and endurance. He was at all cylinders that night. It was probably Mexico's greatest night in boxing.

That's why people wonder if Sanchez never had that fatal fate, how far could have he gone? He didn't had much left fighters to conquer. Eusebio Pedroza and Alexis Arguello were his last 2 great boxers and probably a rematch with Azumah Nelson in the horizon. And probably maybe, maybe, a fight against the great Julio Cesar Chavez on the works too. If he would have beaten those guys, he would have had a hell of a resume, probably top 10 or 15. I would not be surprised top 5.

But if he had lost the rematch to the improving Nelson & then had a spotty career after that (& we've seen that happen time after time) then we wouldn't be having multiple videos proclaiming him the best Mexican ever.

Plus, Benitez's loss was a last round stoppage against one of the top ten of all time. If he'd died after Duran we'd all be wondering how the rematch with Sugar Ray would have gone etc etc.

Obviously this is all conjecture on our part but you swung the scenario in Sanchez's direction. It could have gone the other way too.

p.s. thanks for the great reply.

The Salvador Sanchez win over Wilfredo "Bazooka" Gomez was historically monumental and mostly significant. It was one of the greatest boxing performances in one of the all-time pound per pound great fights.

We're talking if both, Wilfred Benitez and Sanchez died at same age with the same record. The win over Gomez is above Benitez's best win. Sanchez proved to be a bonafide true all-time pound per pound great.

[giacomino]

Wilfred Benitez was a fantastic fighter. But if he would have died in the date after he beat the great Roberto Duran, still wouldn't match Salvador Sanchez accomplishments. Why?

In the biggest night of his career, Benitez lost by KO against Sugar Ray Leonard. It was a masterful fight, but Leonard was better.

But, Sanchez, in the biggest night of his career, he performed like real champions do. He totally dominated and kicked the great Wilfredo "Bazooka" Gomez's behind in a great exhibition of courage, grit, technical flawless and endurance. He was at all cylinders that night. It was probably Mexico's greatest night in boxing.

That's why people wonder if Sanchez never had that fatal fate, how far could have he gone? He didn't had much left fighters to conquer. Eusebio Pedroza and Alexis Arguello were his last 2 great boxers and probably a rematch with Azumah Nelson in the horizon. And probably maybe, maybe, a fight against the great Julio Cesar Chavez on the works too. If he would have beaten those guys, he would have had a hell of a resume, probably top 10 or 15. I would not be surprised top 5.

But if he had lost the rematch to the improving Nelson & then had a spotty career after that (& we've seen that happen time after time) then we wouldn't be having multiple videos proclaiming him the best Mexican ever.

Plus, Benitez's loss was a last round stoppage against one of the top ten of all time. If he'd died after Duran we'd all be wondering how the rematch with Sugar Ray would have gone etc etc.

Obviously this is all conjecture on our part but you swung the scenario in Sanchez's direction. It could have gone the other way too.

p.s. thanks for the great reply.

A lot of ifs. Sanchez' win over Gomez, Red Lopez and a young Nelson were great but he struggled against lesser fighters. Lopez in particular was tailor made for him, although his performances against him were brilliant. IMO if he lives, he loses to Chavez and Arguello by decision but beats Pedroza if we extend Elmo's scenario. Nelson rematch a few years later is likely a tossup., although I would still favor Sanchez. I would have liked to have seen Gomez rematch a few years later, when he was fighting at festherweight. I think Sanchez probably wins but it's a much closer fight if Gomez fights like he did against LaPorte as a featherweight and doesn't come in overconfident and get his face broken in the first round.

If Benitez dies after the Duran fight, he's beaten one of the best junior lighweights ever in Cervantes before he was old, two solid beltholders in Palomino and Hope, a future beltholder in Santos and Duran before his resurgence. Both great resumes. IMO Benitez' loss to Leonard hurts him a lot more than Sanchez' early loss to Antonio Becerra because of the timing and the fact that it was a major, televised fight. But short of Sanchez living and sweeping Chavez, Arguello, Pedroza, Nelson again, it's likely Benitez would have been seen similarly if he'd died early and Sanchez lived.

[elmersalsa]

I don't think that Salvador Sanchez would have beaten Eusebio Pedroza. But, if he did convincingly against the Panamanian Scorpion, it would have probably put Sanchez top 15, or maybe top 10.

Sanchez would have been named the greatest featherweight of all-time, IF, a big IF, he beats Pedroza.

[giacomino]

I don't think that Salvador Sanchez would have beaten Eusebio Pedroza. But, if he did convincingly against the Panamanian Scorpion, it would have probably put Sanchez top 15, or maybe top 10.

Sanchez would have been named the greatest featherweight of all-time, IF, a big IF, he beats Pedroza.

I obviously know your love of Pedroza, and I think it would have been a close fight. Pedroza would have had less of a chance of beating Chavez or Arguello, IMO.

[Seamus]

We're suppose to guess how Sanchez would do at 140 when we don't know how he would have done at 135.

[giacomino]

We're suppose to guess how Sanchez would do at 140 when we don't know how he would have done at 135.

? Chavez and Arguello were beltholders at 130 and 135. Not sure why it's wrong to project how Sanchez would have done if he moved up. He was a very young man when he died and Chavez won his belt at 130 only two years after Sanchez' death. I don't think it's farfetched to think they may have met. We're not questioning how he'd have done against Pryor (not good if Pryor's trainer had the "special" bottle during the fight)

[gilgamesh]

If Salvador Sanchez hadn't died, Julio Cesar Chavez would've never become the Mexican Legend he became. He would've lost to Sanchez.

I don't think Sanchez would've never lost again or anything crazy like that, but it's easy to imagine him racking up a record of like 75-4-1 or something with many, many more Championship bouts thrown in.

[giacomino]

If Salvador Sanchez hadn't died, Julio Cesar Chavez would've never become the Mexican Legend he became. He would've lost to Sanchez.

I don't think Sanchez would've never lost again or anything crazy like that, but it's easy to imagine him racking up a record of like 75-4-1 or something with many, many more Championship bouts thrown in.

Possible. I could see Chavez beating Sanchez, and Sanchez beating Chavez. To me it's a tossup. I think Sanchez beats The Professor at any weight, but again, close

[gilgamesh]

If Salvador Sanchez hadn't died, Julio Cesar Chavez would've never become the Mexican Legend he became. He would've lost to Sanchez.

I don't think Sanchez would've never lost again or anything crazy like that, but it's easy to imagine him racking up a record of like 75-4-1 or something with many, many more Championship bouts thrown in.

Possible. I could see Chavez beating Sanchez, and Sanchez beating Chavez. To me it's a tossup. I think Sanchez beats The Professor at any weight, but again, close

It would've been awesome (Chavez vs Sanchez) so they almost certainly would've fought more than once. He would've wound up mixing with Rosario, Jose Luis Ramirez, Camacho and people like that as well.

I think Whitaker and Camacho would've been the toughest style matchups for him. He was technically very savvy, but wasn't the most nimble footed guy. Same weakness as Arguello.

Sanchez vs Arguello is an awesome bout to imagine. They may have missed each other by a little though just by never being in the same weight range at the same time.

[Ambling Alp II]

We can only speculate who he would have fought and how he would have done. Probably would have been some great fights.
As for Benitez, had he died right then he almost for sure would be rated higher than he is. That's just the way it is. Human nature. Would probably be slightly overrated. As of now, he is a bit underrated. The win was over Duran was obviously huge and most people know that. But the wins over Palomino and Cervantes are often overlooked; not as big of a deal as beating Duran but still really good wins.

Also interesting that he had almost as many KOs as Sanchez at that point. Surprisingly close.

[Taansend]

Also interesting that he had almost as many KOs as Sanchez at that point. Surprisingly close.

That's what shocked me. How very very similar their ages and records were

[bennie]

Benitez is one of the greatest fighters of all time (probably top 10) had he died before his defeat at the hands of Tommy Hearns. Three world titles, three different weights: he deposed Antonio Cervantes and Carlos Palomino, two outstanding champions, destroyed our own Maurice Hope and outclassed Roberto Duran. As for the Leonard fight, Benitez clearly sees out the 15-rounder but for an appalling stoppage by referee Carlos Padilla. Sadly, both Benitez and Sanchez were victims of too much, too young. Benitez had nothing left after Hearns but refused to accept the obvious, eroding both his legacy and his health; Sanchez flying around in a porsche at 2am was a young man with no concept of death and he paid the ultimate price.

[BroughtonRulesRefuge]

I went on a hike up a mountain today (5100 feet) & as I was climbing random thoughts flutter through my head.

Many people say that Salvador Sanchez is the greatest Mexican fighter of all time. What would people have said if Wilfred Benitez had died at the same age?

So I had a quick look & Benitez was born just 4 months before Sanchez.

Benitez won his first title, aged 17, in March 1976, Sanchez February 1980. Both beat well respected Champions.

When Sanchez died in 1982 his record was 44-1-1 with 32 KOs.

At that exact same time Benitez's record was also 44-1-1 with 29 KOs.

Sanchez had just beaten future great Azumah Nelson whereas Benitez had just beaten past AND future great Roberto Duran.

So, if Wilfred had crashed his Porsche into a tree back in 1982, how would we have viewed him, because soon after that he lost to Tommy Hearns & never reached the very top level again.

Anyway, I'd love to hear any feedback from you chaps.

- Sal was 10-0, 5 KO, 4 of them against future HOFers.

Wilfredo hung on too long with lax training to retire with an inferior boxing record compared to Sal, basically a top talent that lacked the mental rigor.

[elmersalsa]

Wilfred Benitez if retired or died at age 23 in 1982 after beating the great Roberto Duran would probably be top 30 at best. I can't see him top 10, top 15, 20 or 25. He would have to do much more. He spent the whole summer of '82 to challenge and beat Marvelous Marvin Hagler. He didn't, and lost to Thomas Hearns.

[Ambling Alp II]

I went on a hike up a mountain today (5100 feet) & as I was climbing random thoughts flutter through my head.

Many people say that Salvador Sanchez is the greatest Mexican fighter of all time. What would people have said if Wilfred Benitez had died at the same age?

So I had a quick look & Benitez was born just 4 months before Sanchez.

Benitez won his first title, aged 17, in March 1976, Sanchez February 1980. Both beat well respected Champions.

When Sanchez died in 1982 his record was 44-1-1 with 32 KOs.

At that exact same time Benitez's record was also 44-1-1 with 29 KOs.

Sanchez had just beaten future great Azumah Nelson whereas Benitez had just beaten past AND future great Roberto Duran.

So, if Wilfred had crashed his Porsche into a tree back in 1982, how would we have viewed him, because soon after that he lost to Tommy Hearns & never reached the very top level again.

Anyway, I'd love to hear any feedback from you chaps.

- Sal was 10-0, 5 KO, 4 of them against future HOFers.

Wilfredo hung on too long with lax training to retire with an inferior boxing record compared to Sal, basically a top talent that lacked the mental rigor.

Benitez had an inferior record? Their win/loss record was exactly the same. Benetiz's only loss was to Leonard, while Sanchez lost to who?
Benitez had wins over three Hall of Famers himself.
This is very close.

[Taansend]

Browsing through Sanchez's record again, as you do, I noticed that his first thirteen opponents had a combined 23 bouts (10 wins in case you're interested) then suddenly he jumped into a bout with a Saul Montana, who'd had 43 fights & a few months earlier had lost to the great Alexis Arguello - the WBA Featherweight Champion at that time.

That's a massive leap for a 17 year old kid. To fight a bunch of kids making their debuts or having had 1 or 2 fights, to suddenly going in with a fringe world class operator. Sanchez had only been a pro 17 months at the time as well.

Less than a year later Sanchez suffers his only loss when challenging for the vacant Mexican Bantamweight belt - in the opponents hometown of Mazatlan. That man, Antonio Becerra, had recently lost to a bloke with a 0-1-0. In fact that was his only win.

I wonder if he would sit in bars telling people that he "beat the man who beat the great Salvdor Sanchez"