Won The Big Fight, Was Never That Good Again

[bennie]

Mike Rossman.

[Ezzard]

I'm going through a stack of Boxing News magazines at the moment from 1985, I've covered the Pedroza fight up to McGuigan's first defence against Bernard Taylor.

The hype is crazy. There are editorial features ranking Barry as a top 5 all time Featherweight and the readers are writing in to gush over the Pedroza fight for months.

It's a real eye-opener seeing how fans and media were so different pre-internet.

I think there is still a biased towards the latest person and that goes for other sports as well. At the moment there is a lot of talk about Usyk being the best ever, when he had close fights with Chisora and Briedis. Usyk is very good, maybe even great, but he ain't the best to ever do it.

When Zidane was active, there was a lot of talk about him being the best footballer ever, but now his name doesn't get mentioned in that conversation.

Very true. I also think that often times we aren’t completely honest with ourselves when it comes to jumping on a hype train. A fighter , or any other athlete for that matter has flaws , weaknesses that we might overlook.
“ The guy is one of the best of all time!”
“ Ya but, he sure gets hit with a lot of right hands”

Magazines don't get sold telling us that our stars of today are about as good as the ones from decades before, or not quite as good. Also... If, as a journalist, you want access to the top sportsmen, best to write nice things about them, therwise nobody wants you to interview them. I'm sure promoters, agents, all play a part too.

It is often a little different in boxing though. Most hardcore fans moan about current fighters and it really turns off a lot of the new fans. Got to keep that fresh blood coming in.

[Controversial]

We often forget that old time fighters that get praise today often weren’t always given great press when they were fighting. Rose tinted glasses sometimes.

[Ambling Alp II]

Mike Rossman.

Thats a good one.
Rossman really put a surprising beating on Victor Galindez. It was one of the prelim fights for Ali-Spinks II.
In the rematch he just seemed to be a totally different guy. Never heard from him after that.

[witherspoon]

Jermain Taylor, beat what (I, at least) assumed was a washed up Hopkins, but those wins just kept on getting better every time Hopkins fought again, for at least 5 years.

I never saw JT as sharp or as smart as he was in those fights with Hopkins.

I do think Taylor was aided by the fact that Hopkins had kinda outgrown the Middleweight division, and was depleted of stamina somewhat. Because Hopkins looked a lot better, and rejuvenated when he made the move to Light Heavy which had probably been a long time coming.

It doesn't take away from Taylor's performances. He still did a top notch job against an excellent Professional, but I do think he had that extra advantage in his favor. Along with youth and speed, which is obviously huge in it's own right.

To be honest, I think I had Hopkins winning the rematch by a round, but it's been a while since I watched these fights.

No doubt you're right that Hopkins was past the point where he could make 160 comfortably, and his subsequent performances at light heavy bear that out.

But even taking that into account, I thought both fights looked like physically evenly matched contests, if Hopkins had a slight disadvantage in speed he did a great job of negating that with timing and tactics.

Whoever commented that Taylor fought to the level of his opponent had a great point too because Taylor never had to dig that deep again until he moved up to super middle, and he certainly never performed to the same level in any of his defences of the middleweight title.

[gilgamesh]

Jermain Taylor, beat what (I, at least) assumed was a washed up Hopkins, but those wins just kept on getting better every time Hopkins fought again, for at least 5 years.

I never saw JT as sharp or as smart as he was in those fights with Hopkins.

I do think Taylor was aided by the fact that Hopkins had kinda outgrown the Middleweight division, and was depleted of stamina somewhat. Because Hopkins looked a lot better, and rejuvenated when he made the move to Light Heavy which had probably been a long time coming.

It doesn't take away from Taylor's performances. He still did a top notch job against an excellent Professional, but I do think he had that extra advantage in his favor. Along with youth and speed, which is obviously huge in it's own right.

To be honest, I think I had Hopkins winning the rematch by a round, but it's been a while since I watched these fights.

No doubt you're right that Hopkins was past the point where he could make 160 comfortably, and his subsequent performances at light heavy bear that out.

But even taking that into account, I thought both fights looked like physically evenly matched contests, if Hopkins had a slight disadvantage in speed he did a great job of negating that with timing and tactics.

Whoever commented that Taylor fought to the level of his opponent had a great point too because Taylor never had to dig that deep again until he moved up to super middle, and he certainly never performed to the same level in any of his defences of the middleweight title.

And to further the point that he rose to his level of competition. Even though he lost to Kelly Pavlik I though the looked as good there as he had at any point since becoming Middleweight Champion, prior to being stopped in that fight, he looked as sharp as he'd ever looked since winning the title.

[evrenb]

Joe Frazier.

[witherspoon]

Joe Frazier.

I absolutely believe that Ali made a big error of judgement, short term, in pissing Joe off so severely.
Frazier was provoked into a do-or-die mentality and in hindsight, he left everything in the ring in the FOTC.
Long term, it's difficult to say that Ali benefited from Joe's decline because of what he had to endure in Manila.

[NazNaci1]

Frankie Randall
Robert Hines
Angel Manfredy
Paul Hodgkinson
Gregorio Vargas

[Caractacus]

Jess Willard, after he had KO'd Jack Johnson for the HW Championship of the world in April 1915 in Cuba.

[Expug]

Tom “ the bomb” Bethea.
Knocked out nino Benvenutti. Couldn’t quite get that level again

[Caractacus]

When Floyd Patterson on the HW Championship(against Archie Moore)
or even when he had 'reclaimed" the HW Championship
(the first to do so) against HW champ Ingemar Johansson,
he was never the same after that if you were to arsk me.

[Ambling Alp II]

I thought the 2nd Johansson fight was one of his best fights. He also beat Machen pretty convincingly and had the great fight with Chuvalo. But, yeah, he was not as consistent.

[Caractacus]

what about Roberto Duran ? after he defeated Sugar Ray Leonard for the welterweight title ?

[gilgamesh]

what about Roberto Duran ? after he defeated Sugar Ray Leonard for the welterweight title ?

That was pretty deep into his career though. He may have never been better than he was on THAT night, but he was better than many guys would ever be even on bad nights. Duran was just a great fighter in general, and doesn't really fall into a category like this. This is more like a "Who are the One Hit Wonders of Boxing" kinda thing.

[Caractacus]

Ingemar Johansson after he won the HW title in 1959.

[keithmoonhangover]

I think Leon Spinks is the ultimate example. Olympic gold, beats Ali, top of the boxing world, losses the rematch, loses every meaningful fights afterwards.

And Battling Siki. Both just partied it away.

[gilgamesh]

I think Leon Spinks is the ultimate example. Olympic gold, beats Ali, top of the boxing world, losses the rematch, loses every meaningful fights afterwards.

And Battling Siki. Both just partied it away.

In Leon's case. He just never got any better than he was as an Amateur. The Leon Spinks that won Olympic Gold is the same Leon Spinks that fought his 10th or 20th Professional Prize fight in terms of technique and skills. He may have improved his stamina and conditioning in order to keep up the pace for 15 rounds, but he only fought 1 way. Straight at you. Chucking punches nonstop.

[Expug]

I’ll throw a less known one in there.
“Lightning “ Lonnie Smith. He blitzed a popular Billie Costello then really never won a meaningful fight again.
Lost his title next fight and wound up fighting the Strickland brothers and guys like Walter Cowans towards the end in matches that really didn’t serve any purpose for a guy trying to get back in the picture.

[gilgamesh]

How about Jarrett "Swift" Hurd

Showed up. Made a splash with about 3 decent wins in a row over Tony Harrison, Austin Trout and Erislandy Lara, and then proceeds to barely ever win again afterwards.

He may still be technically active actually, but this seems to be the pattern this guys' career has fallen into.

[keithmoonhangover]

I think Leon Spinks is the ultimate example. Olympic gold, beats Ali, top of the boxing world, losses the rematch, loses every meaningful fights afterwards.

And Battling Siki. Both just partied it away.

In Leon's case. He just never got any better than he was as an Amateur. The Leon Spinks that won Olympic Gold is the same Leon Spinks that fought his 10th or 20th Professional Prize fight in terms of technique and skills. He may have improved his stamina and conditioning in order to keep up the pace for 15 rounds, but he only fought 1 way. Straight at you. Chucking punches nonstop.

His mental game was the problem IMO. Once he beat Ali, he had no focus.

[JordanKeepers]

I’d throw Barry Mcguigan in there too.

I'm going through a stack of Boxing News magazines at the moment from 1985, I've covered the Pedroza fight up to McGuigan's first defence against Bernard Taylor.

The hype is crazy. There are editorial features ranking Barry as a top 5 all time Featherweight and the readers are writing in to gush over the Pedroza fight for months.

It's a real eye-opener seeing how fans and media were so different pre-internet.

Barry was the only white fighter doing anything in the sport. And like it or not, that meant something at the time, still does a bit. Coetzee was a shadow of his former self, who wasn't exactly a world beater at his best. Czyz was all hype. Piet Crous? Doug DeWitt? Gene Hatcher? Those are some slim pickens. That era was dominated by black Americans, Latin Americans and Asians. Marketing demographics are real.

[Caractacus]

What about Mike Tyson when he won the WBC belt from Trevor Berbick ?
Let's face it, he did not look as impressive when he had one the other belts (WBA)from Bone-Crusher Smith
and (IBF) Tony Tucker.

[keithmoonhangover]

What about Mike Tyson when he won the WBC belt from Trevor Berbick ?
Let's face it, he did not look as impressive when he had one the other belts (WBA)from Bone-Crusher Smith
and (IBF) Tony Tucker.

He beat Michael Spinks.

[elmersalsa]

what about Roberto Duran ? after he defeated Sugar Ray Leonard for the welterweight title ?

That was pretty deep into his career though. He may have never been better than he was on THAT night, but he was better than many guys would ever be even on bad nights. Duran was just a great fighter in general, and doesn't really fall into a category like this. This is more like a "Who are the One Hit Wonders of Boxing" kinda thing.

Exactly on point. Roberto Duran already had great wins way before fighting Sugar Ray Leonard. The Leonard win cemented him as an all-time great fighter pound per pound. His legacy was secured with the win.

His win over Davey Moore re-established him as an all-time pound per pound great. And his win over Iran "The Blade" Barkley iced him on the cake by securing a top 5 all-time pound per pound great.

What a career!