The Heavyweight Champions

[gilgamesh]

This is not a ranking of any of these fighters. It is simply a list of all the Men who have held The Heavyweight Championship. I have the list sorted into 2 tiers. The 1st tier is people who all gained Universal or Lineal Recognition as Heavyweight Champion. The 2nd tier is people who had a claim to 1 Championship belt or another, but were generally never considered THE Champion.

Heavyweight Champions
1. John L. Sullivan
2. James J. Corbett
3. Bob Fitzsimmons
4. James J. Jeffries
5. Marvin Hart
6. Tommy Burns
7. Jack Johnson
8. Jess Willard
9. Jack Dempsey
10. Gene Tunney
11. Max Schmeling
12. Jack Sharkey
13. Primo Carnera
14. Max Baer
15. James J. Braddock
16. Joe Louis
17. Ezzard Charles
18. Jersey Joe Walcott
19. Rocky Marciano
20. Floyd Patterson
21. Ingemar Johansson
22. Floyd Patterson (2x)
23. Sonny Liston
24. Muhammad Ali
25. Joe Frazier
26. George Foreman
27. Muhammad Ali (2x)
28. Leon Spinks
29. Muhammad Ali (3x)
30. Larry Holmes
31. Michael Spinks
32. Mike Tyson
33. James "Buster" Douglas
34. Evander Holyfield
35. Riddick Bowe
36. Evander Holyfield (2x)
37. Michael Moorer
38. George Foreman (2x)
39. Shannon Briggs
40. Lennox Lewis
41. Hasim Rahman
42. Lennox Lewis (2x)
43. Wladimir Klitschko
44. Tyson Fury
45. Oleksandr Usyk




Titlists
1. Lee Savold - EBU
2. Ernie Terrell - WBA
3. Jimmy Ellis - WBA
4. Ken Norton - WBC
5. John Tate - WBA
6. Mike Weaver - WBA
7. Michael Dokes - WBA
8. Gerrie Coetzee - WBA
9. Tim Witherspoon - WBC
10. Pinklon Thomas - WBC
11. Greg Page - WBA
12. Tony Tubbs - WBA
13. Tim Witherspoon - WBA (2x titleholder)
14. Trevor Berbick - WBC
15. James "Bonecrusher" Smith - WBA
16. Tony Tucker - IBF
17. Francesco Damiani - WBO
18. Ray Mercer - WBO
19. Michael Moorer - WBO
20. Lennox Lewis - WBC
21. Tommy Morrison - WBO
22. Michael Bentt - WBO
23. Herbie Hide- WBO
24. Oliver McCall - WBC
25. Riddick Bowe - WBO
26. Bruce Seldon - WBA
27. Frank Bruno - WBC
28. Mike Tyson - WBC, WBA
29. Michael Moorer - IBF (3x titleholder)
30. Henry Akinwande - WBO
31. Evander Holyfield - WBA, IBF (3x titleholder)
32. Herbie Hide - WBO
33. Vitali Klitschko - WBO
34. Chris Byrd - WBO
35. Evander Holyfield - WBA (4x titleholder)
36. Wladimir Klitschko - WBO
37. John Ruiz - WBA
38. Chris Byrd - IBF
39. Roy Jones Jr. - WBA
40. Corrie Sanders - WBO
41. John Ruiz - WBA (2x titleholder)
42. Lamon Brewster - WBO
43. Vitali Klitschko - WBC (2x titleholder)
44. Hasim Rahman - WBC (2x titleholder)
45. Nicolai Valuev - WBA
46. Sergei Liakhovich - WBO
47. Oleg Maskaev - WBC
48. Shannon Briggs - WBO (2x titleholder)
49. Ruslan Chagaev - WBA
50. Sultan Ibragimov - WBO
51. Samuel Peter - WBC
52. Nicolai Valuev - WBA (2x titleholder)
53. Vitali Klitschko - WBC
54. Ruslan Chagaev - WBA
55. David Haye - WBA
56. Bermane Stiverne - WBC
57. Deontay Wilder - WBC
58. Charles Martin - IBF
59. Anthony Joshua - IBF, WBA, WBO
60. Joseph Parker - WBO
61. Andy Ruiz - IBF, WBA, WBO
62. Anthony Joshua - IBF, WBA, WBO (2x titleholder)
63. Daniel Dubois - IBF
64. Fabio Wardley - WBO
65. Daniel Dubois - WBO (2x Titleholder)

[Ambling Alp II]

What, no list of IBO champions?

Seriously though, nobody really considered Savold the real champion.
The WBO was considered at the IBO level for the early title holders. However, when the Klitschkos got it the media started giving it equal billing. We desperately needed a fourth major corrupt boxing organization

[gilgamesh]

Savold's claim was very brief, and was only due to a Dispute at the time from the British Boxing Board of Control. Louis had retired as Heavyweight Champion, and signed a deal with the International Boxing Club (A notorious upstart promotion that was ran by the Mob essentially), and they had decided to hold a match between Ezzard Charles and Joe Walcott to crown a New Heavyweight Champion.

In America the winner of that bout Ezzard Charles was considered the Heavyweight Champion by the N.B.A. at that time, but the British Boxing Board of Control briefly considered Lee Savold to have a claim as Champion until he was beaten by Joe Louis in 1951.

It's just kinda an odd blip in Boxing history where the Heavyweight Championship picture was briefly unclear following the retirement of Joe Louis. It all sorted itself out within a few years, and Savold's reign as "Champion" is probably one of the least consequential on the list.

Only the people in that 1st list were really THE Heavyweight Champion. Any of the guys in the bottom list had a Title reign, but never quite reached the same status as the fellas in that 1st list.

[gilgamesh]

I find it fascinating that in the over 130 year of history of the Heavyweight Boxing Championship under the Marques of Queensberry rules. Only 39 men have held the distinction of being the True Heavyweight Champion of the World.

Some of the men held the distinction more than once, but only 39 guys reached the absolute pinnacle. Really puts the achievement into perspective, there didn't even begin to be Split titlists with regularity until the 1980's, and in just the 45 years between then and now, there have been more Paper Champions than legitimate Heavyweight Champions over the previous 130 years.

There were 24 different American Presidents in that timespan. Only 2 men have ever held that distinction twice.

So being Heavyweight Champion is almost as unlikely as being President, and arguably just as dangerous.

[cfang]

Love these lists. What’s really interesting is that the non lineals have almost no all time great boxers. It seems like in the history of the heavys if you a good enough you will be undisputed

Who is the best of that list that didn’t become lineal? I think it’s actually vitali.

[gilgamesh]

Love these lists. What’s really interesting is that the non lineals have almost no all time great boxers. It seems like in the history of the heavys if you a good enough you will be undisputed

Who is the best of that list that didn’t become lineal? I think it’s actually vitali.

Yeah I'd say it's him with a slight edge over Anthony Joshua. If Anthony Joshua gets a few more marquee wins to go out on without taking any more L's he could overtake Vitali as the best guy that was never Lineal Champion.

[cfang]

I thought aj too

[Ambling Alp II]

It's Ken Norton. Had he fought in most other eras. he would have been the lineal champion. Has a win over Ali. Lost close fight in their third fight. Lost a close decision to Holmes in a great fight.

After that is hard to say. A ton of the WBS titleholders that are close.
There are actually several black heavyweight champions that were better than any of the WBS champions.

[gilgamesh]

It's Ken Norton. Had he fought in most other eras. he would have been the lineal champion. Has a win over Ali. Lost close fight in their third fight. Lost a close decision to Holmes in a great fight.

After that is hard to say. A ton of the WBS titleholders that are close.
There are actually several black heavyweight champions that were better than any of the WBS champions.

It's definitely not Ken to me. I do agree he deserved the nod in the 3rd fight with Ali, but it was closer than I remembered it being. He beat Ali in their 1st bout which was a great win. He beat Jerry Quarry which was a solid win. He got the decision against Jimmy Young in a close fight that could've went either way. He usually looks fairly ordinary when he's fighting anyone except Ali for the most part.

I've covered 18 former Heavyweight Champions or Titlists so far with my Refined Rankings system, and Ken Norton currently ranks 17th...and is well behind #16.

There will wind up being a few more ahead of him. I'm interested to see how his career will stand up when compared to the lesser Champions of the 80's, 90's and 2000's. It doesn't stack up well to the guys of the 2010's I'll tell ya that.

[Ambling Alp II]

How many WBS title defenses do you think these guys would had if they had to made their first defense against a prime Larry Holmes and then never fought for the title again?

[gilgamesh]

How many WBS title defenses do you think these guys would had if they had to made their first defense against a prime Larry Holmes and then never fought for the title again?

No telling, but aside from that they also won their big fights more impressively than him, and lost less often. Aside from fighting Ali, Quarry and Duane Bobick there's very few Norton fights you can point to where he looks like an Elite fighter. He usually looks like a good Heavyweight, tricky, awkward timing with the way he drags his back leg when he moves, but ultimately there's nothing especially spectacular about him. I think he benefits greatly from having competed in the era that he did because of the names he got to be associated with, but he was like the 4th or 5th best guy of the era, and the #1 or #2 guy from a lot of other eras top him.

[Ambling Alp II]

So that would zero title defenses for them.

You should watch his fights against Young and Holmes. He was an elite fighter in those two great fights. None of the WBS titleholders had fights like those two.

He was very well tested and proved he was an elite fighter. Fights with Young, Holmes, Quarry, and 3 with Ali. His probably more tested than many of the lineal champions and all of the WBS "champions". Most of them would have been lucky to 1-5 in those 6 fights.
He was better than many of the lineal champions. Close to the mid-level ones like Sharkey, Schmeling, Walcott, Charles, and Patterson.

No, Norton wasn't the fastest or the biggest puncher. but he had very good boxing skills, and some power. He is a legit Hall of Famer.

[gilgamesh]

So that would zero title defenses for them.

You should watch his fights against Young and Holmes. He was an elite fighter in those two great fights. None of the WBS titleholders had fights like those two.

He was very well tested and proved he was an elite fighter. Fights with Young, Holmes, Quarry, and 3 with Ali. His probably more tested than many of the lineal champions and all of the WBS "champions". Most of them would have been lucky to 1-5 in those 6 fights.
He was better than many of the lineal champions. Close to the mid-level ones like Sharkey, Schmeling, Walcott, Charles, and Patterson.

No, Norton wasn't the fastest or the biggest puncher. but he had very good boxing skills, and some power. He is a legit Hall of Famer.

I watched all of his available fights. That's why I have him ranked.

He did fight great against Larry Holmes, and I do give him credit for his performance in that bout. He didn't fight great at all against Jimmy Young, hell nobody looks good against Jimmy Young. I don't even think he beat Jimmy Young personally, but it was close enough that it was like 8 rounds to 7 either way so I wouldn't put up much of a fuss about the official verdict.

There's only about 20 or so fights total from Norton to look back on (as in there's only that many that there's footage of), and he doesn't win 7 of 'em, and often looks mediocre even in fights he wins. He fought a draw with Scott LeDoux, and he's barely hanging on to survive the 10th round against LeDoux. LeDoux is a fairly mediocre fighter of the era, but he was neck and neck with Norton.

[Ambling Alp II]

The Young-Norton fight was a great fight. It was very exciting.
Norton was shot by the time that he fought Ledoux. He was getting old and had taken some punishment from earlier fights. His reflexes were gone.

The champions (real champions anyway) in his era were Frazier, Foreman, Ali and Holmes. Several really good contenders as well. He could not have come along at a worse time as far as winning the title. (only one champ most of the time). He would have been the lineal champion during many times of history had he fought then.

[gilgamesh]

The Young-Norton fight was a great fight. It was very exciting.
Norton was shot by the time that he fought Ledoux. He was getting old and had taken some punishment from earlier fights. His reflexes were gone.

The champions (real champions anyway) in his era were Frazier, Foreman, Ali and Holmes. Several really good contenders as well. He could not have come along at a worse time as far as winning the title. (only one champ most of the time). He would have been the lineal champion during many times of history had he fought then.

I thought the Young-Norton fight was a good, competitive scrap. I didn't think it was thrilling exactly, but it wasn't boring. It's certainly better than a lot of Jimmy Young fights that's for sure.

I don't disagree that in other times Norton could've been a lineal Champion, but he also would've been flattened by certain guys in other eras as well.

If you drop him into the 90's, with all the big punchers that were lurking around at that time, I think he winds up being about the 4th of 5th best guy of that era too.

The big hitters are always gonna be trouble for him. He also doesn't seem to do well with guys who are physically stronger than him. He does well when he's the stronger man. When he's being backed up, he's in deep sh*t.

[Ambling Alp II]

One thing that people can do when they see the list laid out like this is rate them easier. Start with the first 10 guys.

Maybe something like this:
1. Johnson
2. Dempsey
3. Jeffries
4. Tunney
5. Fitzsimmons
6. Corbett
7. Sullivan
8. Burns
9. Willard
10. Hart

Do another group. Louis fought everyone from Schmeling to Marciano at different stages of his career. Alot of these guys fought each and had common opponents:
Maybe something like this:

1. Louis
2. Marciano
3. Charles
4. Walcott
5. Schmeling
6. Sharkey
7. Baer
8. Carnera
9. Braddock

Then add the two groups together and so on.

[gilgamesh]

Many of these old timers haven't been added into my personal ratings yet, but I'll get around to 'em at some point. Max Schmeling with his victory over Joe Louis will probably get a pretty good boost to his overall standing.

I don't need a new system as far as rating fighters. I've come up with one, and thought it out extensively. I did take some of your early suggestions though.

[gilgamesh]

As of now. This would be my Top 21. This DOES NOT mean I consider these guys to be the 21 Best Heavyweights ever. It just means this is the order I'd have the fighters I've covered in. Any names not included haven't been covered yet.

Heavyweight
1. Muhammad Ali - 1107 points
2. Joe Louis - 899 points
3. George Foreman - 694 points
4. Larry Holmes - 576 points
5. Rocky Marciano - 474 points
6. Lennox Lewis - 470 Points
7. Evander Holyfield - 466 Points
8. Riddick Bowe - 448 points
9. Wladimir Klitschko - 416 points
10. Mike Tyson - 377 points
11. Joe Frazier - 353 points
12. Tyson Fury - 342 points
13. Sonny Liston - 284 points
14. Vitali Klitschko - 265 points
15. Tommy Morrison - 241 points
16. Anthony Joshua - 223 Points
17. Deontay Wilder - 221 points
18. Oleksandr Usyk - 211 points
19. Ken Norton - 169 points
20. Frank Bruno - 130 points
21. Fabio Wardley - 110 points

[cfang]

Usyk has a better record than Rocky and the pts difference between them is an issue.

[gilgamesh]

Usyk has a better record than Rocky and the pts difference between them is an issue.

Usyk's overall score is pretty high. His score strictly as a Heavyweight is lower mainly due to so relatively few fights in the division. His overall score when you combine his Cruiserweight and Heavyweight records is 477 points.

[gilgamesh]

Dubois became a 2x titleholder today, and got his name on the list a 2nd time in an absolutely unforgettable fight.

[gilgamesh]

The Amount of Heavyweight Champions by Decade

1890's - 3
1900's - 5
1910's - 3
1920's - 2
1930's - 7
1940's - 2
1950's - 6 (Patterson 2x)

Beginning here we now have the WBC and WBA so the possibility of 2 "Champions"

1960's - 6
1970's - 8

Beginning in the 1980's the IBF and WBO come into existence at some point in the decade making the possibility for 4 "Champions" by the Decade's End. In the 1990's onward to now the 4 Titles are around for the entirety of the decade.

1980's - 15
1990's - 26 (Moorer 2x, Holyfield 3x, Bowe 2x, Tyson 2x)
2000's - 27 (Wlad 2x, Lewis 2x, Rahman 2x, Vitali Klitschko 2x, John Ruiz 2x)
2010's - 8
2020's - 9 (so far)

[gilgamesh]

Goes to show how much more rare this feat used to be, and it's interesting to note the effect that a Dominant Champion will have on the decade they're in.

[cfang]

As of now. This would be my Top 21. This DOES NOT mean I consider these guys to be the 21 Best Heavyweights ever. It just means this is the order I'd have the fighters I've covered in. Any names not included haven't been covered yet.

Heavyweight
1. Muhammad Ali - 1107 points
2. Joe Louis - 899 points
3. George Foreman - 694 points
4. Larry Holmes - 576 points
5. Rocky Marciano - 474 points
6. Lennox Lewis - 470 Points
7. Evander Holyfield - 466 Points
8. Riddick Bowe - 448 points
9. Wladimir Klitschko - 416 points
10. Mike Tyson - 377 points
11. Joe Frazier - 353 points
12. Tyson Fury - 342 points
13. Sonny Liston - 284 points
14. Vitali Klitschko - 265 points
15. Tommy Morrison - 241 points
16. Anthony Joshua - 223 Points
17. Deontay Wilder - 221 points
18. Oleksandr Usyk - 211 points
19. Ken Norton - 169 points
20. Frank Bruno - 130 points
21. Fabio Wardley - 110 points

Usyk behind Tommy Morrison and wilder shows fundamental flaws.

[gilgamesh]

As of now. This would be my Top 21. This DOES NOT mean I consider these guys to be the 21 Best Heavyweights ever. It just means this is the order I'd have the fighters I've covered in. Any names not included haven't been covered yet.

Heavyweight
1. Muhammad Ali - 1107 points
2. Joe Louis - 899 points
3. George Foreman - 694 points
4. Larry Holmes - 576 points
5. Rocky Marciano - 474 points
6. Lennox Lewis - 470 Points
7. Evander Holyfield - 466 Points
8. Riddick Bowe - 448 points
9. Wladimir Klitschko - 416 points
10. Mike Tyson - 377 points
11. Joe Frazier - 353 points
12. Tyson Fury - 342 points
13. Sonny Liston - 284 points
14. Vitali Klitschko - 265 points
15. Tommy Morrison - 241 points
16. Anthony Joshua - 223 Points
17. Deontay Wilder - 221 points
18. Oleksandr Usyk - 211 points
19. Ken Norton - 169 points
20. Frank Bruno - 130 points
21. Fabio Wardley - 110 points

Usyk behind Tommy Morrison and wilder shows fundamental flaws.

He's won another fight since then and isn't behind them now. I haven't shown the updated list in this thread but it's on Page 1 of the Gil's refined rankings thread at all times.

An ever changing work in progress.