Examples of long counts and short counts

[Controversial]

We all know that 10 counts aren't 10 seconds but clearly some are much slower or faster than others so what are some examples of the most blatant short or long counts?

Another thread reminded me of Jeff Sims knocking down Shavers, Earnie was on the canvas for at least 14 seconds, the ref was counting in slow motion. Another ref may have counted him out.

Robinson was apparently on the canvas for between 17 and 21 seconds when Artie Levine knocked him down depending what article you read.

What you got?

[goose 5]

Robinson wasn't down that long, the ref took a long time wiping his gloves.

[Jaywheel]

Short count:1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10

[Jaywheel]

Long count:
1






2





3





4





5





6





7





8





9





10

[Caractacus]

the Corbett vrs Fitzsimmons fight in Carson City NV in 1897.
In the sixth round Corbett had knocked down Fitzsimmons with a right,
Fitzsimmons was clutching Corbetts legs and the ref was counting slow.
Corbett estimated that it was a full 15 seconds before the fight resumed.
https://books.google.com/books?id=m9pdA ... pg=PA23&dq

[Caractacus]

[gilgamesh]

While I can't name any specific examples off the top of my head, it feels like I've seen many a time when a guy got up at 8, and the referee just waved the fight off anyway. Is that a short count?

The most famous or infamous long counts are obviously Jack Dempsey vs Gene Tunney 2 and Mike Tyson vs Buster Douglas. I always thought the Tyson-Douglas thing was just some bullsh*t drummed up by Don King myself, and the Dempsey-Tunney one is Dempsey's fault.

[goose 5]

I seem to remember thinking Watson-Benn being a short count.

[Caractacus]

[bennie]

I remember Murray Sutherland claiming he had beaten the count against Matthew Saad Muhammad in a world title fight back in the day. The referee did Sutherland a big favour.

[Controversial]

I remember Murray Sutherland claiming he had beaten the count against Matthew Saad Muhammad in a world title fight back in the day. The referee did Sutherland a big favour.

He did seem to rise at 9 to be fair to him but yes probably done him a favour

[catalin714]

Short count:

October 2008
Yuriorkis Gamboa knocking out Marcos Ramirez in California on HBO.
Ref Jerry Cantu counted normally but realized the house fighter should be in no danger he really outdid the last few counts….went like 5…..6…..7….8….9.10.:)

[margaret thatcher]

this is one of the most overcited examples, it's just the commentator messing up his own count to yell 'foreman gets up to the knee'

his count is fine till 6, then he stops to say 'foreman gets up to the knee', loses pace with the ref (who doesnt stop to scream at us about foreman), and then 3 seconds later resumes his count at 8 when he should count 9 using his earlier counting pace, making it look like a fast count when it was his own error.

you can also see foreman goes down with 11 seconds left and is counted out after it hits 0, as he's still pulling himself up. by the refs own count and the timer george was given enough time, he just couldnt make it upright quickly enough

[Ambling Alp II]

While I can't name any specific examples off the top of my head, it feels like I've seen many a time when a guy got up at 8, and the referee just waved the fight off anyway. Is that a short count?

The most famous or infamous long counts are obviously Jack Dempsey vs Gene Tunney 2 and Mike Tyson vs Buster Douglas. I always thought the Tyson-Douglas thing was just some bullsh*t drummed up by Don King myself, and the Dempsey-Tunney one is Dempsey's fault.

In the situations where the fighter beat the count (like getting up at 8) the referee is stopping the fight because he is ruling that the fighter is too hurt and can't defend himself.

In the Dempsey-Tunney fight, the rule was that referee was not to start the count until the fighter moved to a neutral corner. (Which is a little vague)
For a long time now, the referee makes sure the fighter who scored the knockdown moves to the neutral corner. He then picks up the count from the timekeeper who begins the count immediately. i..e if the timekeeper was at 3 when the referee is ready to start counting, the referee begins at 4.
Had the rule been in effect in the Dempsey-Tunney fight, Tunney would have had to have got up sooner. He probably would have been able to, but the million dollar question is would his head have been clear?
There has also been some debate as to whether or not the count was slow when the referee did begin counting.

Also worth noting is that later in the fight, Tunney scored a knockdown over Dempsey. The referee did not motion Tunney to a neutral corner; he started counting immediately!
Dempsey got up quickly and wasn't really hurt so it didn't matter. But it seemed revealing. The referee btw had ties to organized crime.

[Ambling Alp II]

this is one of the most overcited examples, it's just the commentator messing up his own count to yell 'foreman gets up to the knee'

his count is fine till 6, then he stops to say 'foreman gets up to the knee', loses pace with the ref (who doesnt stop to scream at us about foreman), and then 3 seconds later resumes his count at 8 when he should count 9 using his earlier counting pace, making it look like a fast count when it was his own error.

you can also see foreman goes down with 11 seconds left and is counted out after it hits 0, as he's still pulling himself up. by the refs own count and the timer george was given enough time, he just couldnt make it upright quickly enough

Yeah, the commentator was off.
And you can see Foreman hit the canvas with 11 seconds left. It was not a fast count.
What has further confused things is that the official time was 2:58, when it should have been 2:59 or 3:00.

Not 100% sure about this, but I am pretty sure that the commentator on this was doing this well after the fight. And this fight was not seen by most of the public until 1990.

[gilgamesh]

Yeah it's always worth taking an extra few seconds to clear your head if you need to. I always remember Zab Judah famously jumping right up as if he wasn't hurt against Kostya Tszyu, and then reeling all the way across the ring, and falling back down.

I was reading in the Mickey Walker book the other day that when that referee of the infamous Dempsey-Tunney 2 bout refereed one of Mickey's bouts shortly thereafter the crowd mocked him by giving a slow count to 14 when he was introduced as the Referee.

[Caractacus]

Some say, that Ingemar Johansson was prevented from knocking out Floyd Patterson in Round One.
(possibly due to the first time in Heavyweight History a "mandatory Standing 8 count" was utilized in it.)
-1961-

[Caractacus]

-1963-

[Caractacus]

-1982-

[margaret thatcher]

mike dokes hands so friggin fast, incredible. absolutely blazing when he let those combos go. cartoonishly fast enough. maybe 2nd fastest hw hands ever after ali

[Caractacus]

" knock-out at "3:50" seconds"
(I counted an even '4 minutes" )
-1984-

[Ambling Alp II]

Everything about this was crazy. Obviously, they screwed up the time of the round.
There was no way this fight was going to go 15 rounds. Both guys had been hurt and were both tired.

You would think that Coetzee would have got an immediate rematch, but that didn't happen.
Odd that Page got a title shot to begin with. He had lost his last two fights. And he lost his next two after this.

Anyway, the well-respected WBA was fine with everything as it happened.

[bwu]

Some say, that Ingemar Johansson was prevented from knocking out Floyd Patterson in Round One.
(possibly due to the first time in Heavyweight History a "mandatory Standing 8 count" was utilized in it.)
-1961-

Ingo has about 11 or 12 seconds on the count that ends the fight.

[Caractacus]

[Caractacus]