Floyd Mayweather jr vs The Fab Three @ 147

[gilgamesh]

And I'll tell ya what Alp. Because I'm tired of having to explain to you that all wins are not equal under my system. I'll just post both Mayweather and Leonard's 20 highest scoring wins respectively along with their scores to hopefully put that issue to rest.

[gilgamesh]

Ray Leonard's 20 highest scoring bouts according to my system

1. Tommy Hearns - 110 points (The highest possible score)
2. Roberto Duran 2 - 110 points
3. Marvin Hagler - 109 points
4. Wilfred Benitez - 60 points
5. Bruce Finch - 28 points
6. Donnie Lalonde - 18 points
7. Tommy Hearns 2 - 15 points
8. Ayub Kalule - 13 points
9. Davey "Boy" Green - 13 points
10. Roberto Duran 3 - 11 points
11. Larry Bonds - 10 points
12. Andy Price - 8 points
13. Floyd Mayweather Sr - 8 points
14. Pete Ranzany - 8 points
15. Tony Chiaverini - 8 points
16. Armando Muniz - 8 points
17. Johnny Gant - 7 points
18. Daniel Gonzalez - 7 points
19. Hector Diaz - 6 points
20. Javier Muniz - 6 points


Floyd Mayweather Jr.'s 20 highest scoring bouts according to my system
1. Oscar De La Hoya - 59 points
2. Miguel Cotto - 59 points
3. Diego Corrales - 59 points
4. Manny Pacquiao - 28 points
5. Andre Berto - 24 points
6. Ricky Hatton - 18 points
7. Zab Judah - 18 points
8. Saul "Canelo" Alvarez - 17 points
9. Marcos Maidana -17 points
10. Marcos Maidana 2 - 15 points
11. Carlos Baldomir - 15 points
12. Robert Guerrero - 15 points
13. Arturo Gatti - 14 points
14. Shane Mosley - 13 points
15. Angel Manfredy - 13 points
16. Gregorio "Goyo" Vargas - 12 points
17. Genaro Hernandez - 12 points
18. Phillip Ndou - 12 points
19. Jesus Chavez - 11 points
20. Victor Ortiz - 11 points

Note: I have since removed Gold star Status from Mayweather's victory over Arturo Gatti as after doing the full breakdown of Gatti, I found that he did not quite have the numbers to make a victory over him Gold Star worthy. He's just shy of the mark that may be the case with Corrales as well, but I'll have to dig deeper into that at a later time. Mayweather is still ahead of Leonard on my list, but the gap has narrowed to the point that a potential loss for Mayweather in his rematch later this year with Pacquiao could see him drop below Leonard.

A win of course means he stays above him.

Dropping Gatti's rating to a 3 means Oscar De La Hoya's win over him was demoted as well causing Oscar to lose 40 points from his score also, and dropping him below Roy Jones Jr.

[Casablanca]

Ray Leonard's 20 highest scoring bouts according to my system

1. Tommy Hearns - 110 points (The highest possible score)
2. Roberto Duran 2 - 110 points
3. Marvin Hagler - 109 points
4. Wilfred Benitez - 60 points
5. Bruce Finch - 28 points
6. Donnie Lalonde - 18 points
7. Tommy Hearns 2 - 15 points
8. Ayub Kalule - 13 points
9. Davey "Boy" Green - 13 points
10. Larry Bonds - 10 points
11. Andy Price - 8 points
12. Floyd Mayweather Sr - 8 points
13. Pete Ranzany - 8 points
14. Tony Chiaverini - 8 points
15. Armando Muniz - 8 points
16. Johnny Gant - 7 points
17. Daniel Gonzalez - 7 points
18. Hector Diaz - 6 points
19. Javier Muniz - 6 points
20. Frank Santore - 6 points

Floyd Mayweather Jr.'s 20 highest scoring bouts according to my system
1. Oscar De La Hoya - 59 points
2. Miguel Cotto - 59 points
3. Diego Corrales - 59 points
4. Manny Pacquiao - 28 points
5. Andre Berto - 24 points
6. Ricky Hatton - 18 points
7. Zab Judah - 18 points
8. Saul "Canelo" Alvarez - 17 points
9. Marcos Maidana -17 points
10. Marcos Maidana 2 - 15 points
11. Carlos Baldomir - 15 points
12. Robert Guerrero - 15 points
13. Arturo Gatti - 14 points
14. Shane Mosley - 13 points
15. Angel Manfredy - 13 points
16. Gregorio "Goyo" Vargas - 12 points
17. Genaro Hernandez - 12 points
18. Phillip Ndou - 12 points
19. Jesus Chavez - 11 points
20. Victor Ortiz - 11 points

Note: I have since removed Gold star Status from Mayweather's victory over Arturo Gatti as after doing the full breakdown of Gatti, I found that he did not quite have the numbers to make a victory over him Gold Star worthy. He's just shy of the mark that may be the case with Corrales as well, but I'll have to dig deeper into that at a later time. Mayweather is still ahead of Leonard on my list, but the gap has narrowed to the point that a potential loss for Mayweather in his rematch later this year with Pacquiao could see him drop below Leonard.

A win of course means he stays above him.

Dropping Gatti's rating to a 3 means Oscar De La Hoya's win over him was demoted as well causing Oscar to lose 40 points from his score also, and dropping him below Roy Jones Jr.

This is a very cool thing which you are putting together.

As an aside, how did you score the first Mayweather-Maidana fight?

[Jaywheel]

Donaire started his career in 2001. The Inoue fights were in 2019 and 2022. So his 2nd and 3rd best fights were against a guy with arthritis and hip problems. I mean, SRL did beat Lalonde at 2 different weights on the same night. As good if not better.

[gilgamesh]

Donaire started his career in 2001. The Inoue fights were in 2019 and 2022. So his 2nd and 3rd best fights were against a guy with arthritis and hip problems. I mean, SRL did beat Lalonde at 2 different weights on the same night. As good if not better.

The Lalonde fight is awesome. Lalonde is no Donaire though. I'd have to say Donaire are some of his best wins as of now since Donaire also has a win over Omar Narvaez.

Inoue vs Junto Nakatani which is about a month off is the biggest fight in Japanese Boxing history.

[gilgamesh]

I had the 1st Mayweather vs Maidana fight as 115-113 Mayweather. He wins at least 1 of the first 6, and then the entire 2nd half of the bout.

[Ambling Alp II]

Donaire started his career in 2001. The Inoue fights were in 2019 and 2022. So his 2nd and 3rd best fights were against a guy with arthritis and hip problems. I mean, SRL did beat Lalonde at 2 different weights on the same night. As good if not better.

Donaire was 36 and 39 for these fights. Clearly well past his best. Losing to other fighters during this time as well. And is Inoue's 2nd and 3rd biggest wins. Wow.

[Ambling Alp II]

Just going to points out some obvious problems for the points for Mayweather and Leonard:

A win over Corrales is somehow worth 59 points? 59 points for beating Corrales? A win over Benitez is 60? Wtf? Benitez was a much, much better fighter than Corrales. Leonard should get more points for beating Benitez, and Mayweather a lot less for beating Corrales.

Mayweather gets 18 for beating Haugen and 14 for Gatti. While Leonard only gets 13 for beating Kalue? Lemme guess. It's because Hatton and Gatti are somehow in the HOF, even though neither are remotely deserving.

Mayweather gets 28 points for beating that version of Pacquaio?
Mayweather gets 13 for beating an ancient Mosley?
How many points does Leonard get for a draw with Hearns (in a great fight) who was much closer to his prime than those guys? Just 15!

Since Mayweather get so many points for beating guys way past it, what does Leonard get for beating Duran in their third fight ? He's not listed. Has to be 5 or lower!

15 is the amount that Mayweather gets for beating Baldimir! He also got 15 for beating Guerrero.

Somehow Leonard also gets 5 or lower for fights against Viruet, Geraldo, and Shields.

Wow.

[Casablanca]

Just going to points out some obvious problems for the points for Mayweather and Leonard:

A win over Corrales is somehow worth 59 points? 59 points for beating Corrales? A win over Benitez is 60? Wtf? Benitez was a much, much better fighter than Corrales. Leonard should get more points for beating Benitez, and Mayweather a lot less for beating Corrales.

Mayweather gets 18 for beating Haugen and 14 for Gatti. While Leonard only gets 13 for beating Kalue? Lemme guess. It's because Hatton and Gatti are somehow in the HOF, even though neither are remotely deserving.

Mayweather gets 28 points for beating that version of Pacquaio?
Mayweather gets 13 for beating an ancient Mosley?
How many points does Leonard get for a draw with Hearns (in a great fight) who was much closer to his prime than those guys? Just 15!

Since Mayweather get so many points for beating guys way past it, what does Leonard get for beating Duran in their third fight ? He's not listed. Has to be 5 or lower!

15 is the amount that Mayweather gets for beating Baldimir! He also got 15 for beating Guerrero.

Somehow Leonard also gets 5 or lower for fights against Viruet, Geraldo, and Shields.

Wow.

Hatton is rightly in the HOF. Gatti I am not sure about.

As far as the points system goes, these types of things are incredibly difficult to formulate. I don’t envy Gil’s task here, that is for sure.

[Ambling Alp II]

Hatton is one of the worst in there. What wins does he have that are worth mentioning when saying he should be in the HOF? There is the win against an old Kosta Tszyu and that's about it.

Look, I agree that trying to make a points system in boxing is hard.( Didn't mean to sound like a jerk.) Making it good is virtually impossible. It just doesn't work like other sports.

This is a sport where fighters don't have to fight someone that they don't want to. Where the officiating is much worse than other sports. It's more corrupt than other sports.

You have weight classes where there are 4 champions. At times, there is 1 champion.

For much of the 20th century there were 8-10 weight classes with one champion. The amount of weight classes and amount of champions per weight class has continued to grow. Now there is 17 weight classes with a potential of 68 so called champions.

What is the difference between a straw weight and a Light flyweight? A big lunch?

There are weight classes at 105, 108, 112, 115, 118, 122, 126. That is just silly. 6 weight classes below featherweight. Potentially four champions at each weight class. Naturally there isn't going to be many good fights because it's so easy to avoid good competition. The talent pool is unnecessarily divided. Imagine if it was just 112, 118, and 126?


You can be a world champion and not be that good at all. You can make title defenses against guys who aren't that good at all. Happens all the time

I'm just scratching the surface here.

[gilgamesh]

All that you say there is true. There are too many weight classes and Championships and it can be a gigantic mess to try to keep up with and make sense of it all.

The reason why Leonard's points taper off at the end is because beyond his 11 top scoring bouts he's not competing in Championship fights.

Corrales may well wind up not being listed as a Gold star win, but I'll have to watch his career in its entirety first and I'm in no hurry to do that honestly.

How good the opponent is is only half the criteria. How good the performance was is the other half. If a fighter gets less points for beating a better fighter the explanation must be that the performance was a little less than impressive.

I genuinely believe my system though considers all facets of the game as good as possible.

[gilgamesh]

Just going to points out some obvious problems for the points for Mayweather and Leonard:

A win over Corrales is somehow worth 59 points? 59 points for beating Corrales? A win over Benitez is 60? Wtf? Benitez was a much, much better fighter than Corrales. Leonard should get more points for beating Benitez, and Mayweather a lot less for beating Corrales.

Mayweather gets 18 for beating Haugen and 14 for Gatti. While Leonard only gets 13 for beating Kalue? Lemme guess. It's because Hatton and Gatti are somehow in the HOF, even though neither are remotely deserving.

Mayweather gets 28 points for beating that version of Pacquaio?
Mayweather gets 13 for beating an ancient Mosley?
How many points does Leonard get for a draw with Hearns (in a great fight) who was much closer to his prime than those guys? Just 15!

Since Mayweather get so many points for beating guys way past it, what does Leonard get for beating Duran in their third fight ? He's not listed. Has to be 5 or lower!

15 is the amount that Mayweather gets for beating Baldimir! He also got 15 for beating Guerrero.

Somehow Leonard also gets 5 or lower for fights against Viruet, Geraldo, and Shields.

Wow.

Honestly I overlooked Leonard's win over Duran in their 3rd fight. That should be on the list, I just missed it. I'll correct that later.

Mayweather having more points for his wins over Guerrero and Baldomir is about the fact that those bouts were for a Unified title. A more prestigious title raises the stakes.

I'll address other stuff you pointed out later when I'm at home and can consult my notes to give more detailed answers.

If anything you should see Leonard getting more points for a Draw with Hearns than Mayweather got for a Win over Mosley as high praise of the fight itself and the level of competition on display.

A win is always better than a draw theoretically, but somehow I give Leonard more points there even though I thought he lost the fight. The reason why is because I respect and recognize the level at which that fight was fought, and I see Leonard being able to fight his way back to a draw there as a moral victory if not at an outright one.

[gilgamesh]

Manny Pacquiao achieved one of his Top 10 victories 3 years after losing to Mayweather. He was not a shot fighter. He's not even shot now for that matter. He fought to a draw for a World Title in 2025. A decade past his fight with Mayweather and honestly I thought he won that fight.

[gilgamesh]

I've included Leonard's win over Roberto Duran in their 3rd bout in the list now. I meant to put that in initially I just overlooked that one. My bad.

[Ambling Alp II]

It had been 6 years since Pac had stopped anyone by the time Mayweather would finally fight him.
He had a lot of fights, a lot of tough fights by then. No he wasn't shot. But certainly, was great anymore. Don't see how anyone watching him could think that.
No, he didn't have one of his biggest wins after that fight.

Mosley was 38 years old. Had also been in a ton of tough fights. Wasn't shot. Was way past his best.

It just seems like if the other guy has a pulse, it's a big win for Mayweather.

How about this: Just keep your points system talk to the gils ranking thread and leave it out of other threads.

[gilgamesh]

It had been 6 years since Pac had stopped anyone by the time Mayweather would finally fight him.
He had a lot of fights, a lot of tough fights by then. No he wasn't shot. But certainly, was great anymore. Don't see how anyone watching him could think that.
No, he didn't have one of his biggest wins after that fight.

Mosley was 38 years old. Had also been in a ton of tough fights. Wasn't shot. Was way past his best.

It just seems like if the other guy has a pulse, it's a big win for Mayweather.

How about this: Just keep your points system talk to the gils ranking thread and leave it out of other threads.

Will do unless the thread is about how you rank certain guys in comparison to each other. In which case. here comes the system.

Mayweather gets more points for wins because of the titles that were at stake. Pacquiao still beat Keith Thurman the #1 ranked Welterweight 3 years after losing to Mayweather. He fought a draw against Mario Barrios last year in 2025 for the WBC Welterweight Title. Beating him 10 years ago may not have been beating him in his prime, but he was still beating a formidable fighter.

And most importantly. He was beating a Legendary and formidable fighter for the Lineal and Recognized Welterweight Championship.

It all adds up. It's all there. If it's any consolation to you, Pacquiao may be about to hand Mayweather a loss in September, and that could bring Mayweather down.

Pacquiao's accomplishments are incomparable for most fighters. He's the Henry Armstrong of our time.

[gilgamesh]

In summary though, and to answer the question posed originally in this thread

Mayweather W12 Duran
Leonard W12 Mayweather
Hearns TKO 10 Mayweather or lopsided W12

would be my predictions for his chances against these 3 guys respectively. Each man at their best. It's possible he loses all 3. It's possible he beats Leonard. No conceivable way he beats Hearns that I can imagine.

[Casablanca]

In summary though, and to answer the question posed originally in this thread

Mayweather W12 Duran
Leonard W12 Mayweather
Hearns TKO 10 Mayweather or lopsided W12

would be my predictions for his chances against these 3 guys respectively. Each man at their best. It's possible he loses all 3. It's possible he beats Leonard. No conceivable way he beats Hearns that I can imagine.

And how about against Hagler?

[gilgamesh]

In summary though, and to answer the question posed originally in this thread

Mayweather W12 Duran
Leonard W12 Mayweather
Hearns TKO 10 Mayweather or lopsided W12

would be my predictions for his chances against these 3 guys respectively. Each man at their best. It's possible he loses all 3. It's possible he beats Leonard. No conceivable way he beats Hearns that I can imagine.

And how about against Hagler?

He never tried Middleweight when Sergio Martinez and Golovkin were waiting for him there. Hagler is worse than that.

I think Floyd understood Middleweight was a bridge too far.

[Casablanca]

In summary though, and to answer the question posed originally in this thread

Mayweather W12 Duran
Leonard W12 Mayweather
Hearns TKO 10 Mayweather or lopsided W12

would be my predictions for his chances against these 3 guys respectively. Each man at their best. It's possible he loses all 3. It's possible he beats Leonard. No conceivable way he beats Hearns that I can imagine.

And how about against Hagler?

He never tried Middleweight when Sergio Martinez and Golovkin were waiting for him there. Hagler is worse than that.

I think Floyd understood Middleweight was a bridge too far.

Yeah, my recollection was that Hagler earlier in his career had fought in lower weights, but he hadn’t when I looked it up just now.

[Casablanca]

In summary though, and to answer the question posed originally in this thread

Mayweather W12 Duran
Leonard W12 Mayweather
Hearns TKO 10 Mayweather or lopsided W12

would be my predictions for his chances against these 3 guys respectively. Each man at their best. It's possible he loses all 3. It's possible he beats Leonard. No conceivable way he beats Hearns that I can imagine.

I agree that Hearns presents a lot of problems for Mayweather. I think that Mayweather would probably have beaten Duran. Leonard is an incredible matchup.

[BroughtonRulesRefuge]

In summary though, and to answer the question posed originally in this thread

Mayweather W12 Duran
Leonard W12 Mayweather
Hearns TKO 10 Mayweather or lopsided W12

would be my predictions for his chances against these 3 guys respectively. Each man at their best. It's possible he loses all 3. It's possible he beats Leonard. No conceivable way he beats Hearns that I can imagine.

I agree that Hearns presents a lot of problems for Mayweather. I think that Mayweather would probably have beaten Duran. Leonard is an incredible matchup.

- l'l floydy ducks Ray, Roberto, and Tommy in no particular order. He daddy gave him a major inferiority complex such that when he finally found enough connected folks in boxing, primarily in Vegas that pull all the strings for him in his new Home Venue, he had his own drug testing, his own ref, and his own judges, his own rubber stamp.

When Arum was promoting him, he scheduled a match in his own hometown where it was revealed he couldn't draw flies.

It's now telling how his Uncle Al's stroke disturbed his $$$tream such that he had to ask Manny for a rematch scheduled Sept 23th @The Sphere, the latest Vegas Bread and Circus Venue.

[Ambling Alp II]

For once I agree with Broughton. He isn't going to fight those guys near their prime.

[Riddick Bowie]

Just going to points out some obvious problems for the points for Mayweather and Leonard:

A win over Corrales is somehow worth 59 points? 59 points for beating Corrales? A win over Benitez is 60? Wtf? Benitez was a much, much better fighter than Corrales. Leonard should get more points for beating Benitez, and Mayweather a lot less for beating Corrales.

Mayweather gets 18 for beating Haugen and 14 for Gatti. While Leonard only gets 13 for beating Kalue? Lemme guess. It's because Hatton and Gatti are somehow in the HOF, even though neither are remotely deserving.

Mayweather gets 28 points for beating that version of Pacquaio?
Mayweather gets 13 for beating an ancient Mosley?
How many points does Leonard get for a draw with Hearns (in a great fight) who was much closer to his prime than those guys? Just 15!

Since Mayweather get so many points for beating guys way past it, what does Leonard get for beating Duran in their third fight ? He's not listed. Has to be 5 or lower!

15 is the amount that Mayweather gets for beating Baldimir! He also got 15 for beating Guerrero.

Somehow Leonard also gets 5 or lower for fights against Viruet, Geraldo, and Shields.

Wow.

You're arguing with a tard. Part of being a tard is not knowing you're a tard. Why does this tard dominate every forum with their tard posting? Ye gads, what has become of Boxrec?