Interview with Floyd Patterson (1979)

[Controversial]

Q. What were your impressions of Ali-Spinks 2 which I believe you watched on television?

A. It was not an exciting fights but I have never seen such a well-planned fight. Cassius planned to move just enough to win and he did. (Patterson referred to the current heavyweight champion as Cassius Clay throughout the interview). He didn't lose many of the early rounds—the first round he lost was the eighth which was the first time he came down off his toes in the fight.

Q. What are your impressions of Spinks as a fighter?

A. Spinks has a lot of potential and ability. but what he needs now is experience. Spinks won the title on determination. but you can't beat experience. as Cassius proved to him.

Q. Many people project the theory that Spinks lost his title because he won the title too soon and could not dope with the sudden fame. Yet you won the heavyweight title at a comparable age and by all outward appearances, you were able to keep your head on your shoulders. How can a fighter cope with sudden fame.

A. I can only tell you what I did. Actually. I was not able to handle it. So I kept my mouth shut and stayed out of the limelight. You learn by listening. and after years of listening. I was able to speak for myself and be my own man. For the last ten years of my career. I was my own manager and did well with my finances and on Wall Street.

Q. Who trained you after the D'Amato breakup, when you began handling your own affairs?

A. Dan Florio trained me from 1962 until his death in 1965. Ernie Fowler who was always in my camp trained me from 1965 until my last fight in 1972. You need a trainer. because you can't see yourself in the ring.

Q. Many fighters are trained are managed by members of their own families, such as Jerry Quarry, but these fighters never seem to win titles. Do you feel it best that your trainer be an impartial outsider who won't be afraid to chew you out of you need it?

A. Well. I took my brother Ray into camp around 1965. and I'm afraid that I myself. made things so soft for him that he lost desire and hunger to light. And hunger is the main ingredient for a successful fighter.

Q. How did you develop your famous peekaboo style?

A. The peekaboo was an outgrowth of advice my original trainer (1950-54). Frank Lavelle, gave me to keep my hands high at all times. He eventually left because he couldn't get along with D’Amato and because he thought I had been overmatched in a fight against Tommy Harrison in 1954. I knocked out Harrison in the first round and I guess Lavelle has since brainwashed himself into justifying his position. I see him occasionally at fight cards but we haven’t spoken since that day.

Q. Were you a boxing instructor, would you recommend the peekaboo style?

A. I have a boxing camp upstate, for youngsters. Six of them recently accompanied me to Belfast. Ireland; and then to Michigan, where they fought local teams. I start all my youngsters off with the peekaboo style. It is a good beginning stance and a fighter can develop into other natural styles from it. easily. The style is a part of me.

Q. And how did you acquire another famous part of your repertoire the leaping left hook?

A. And the leaping right hand. I first used it at the state reformatory at the age of 9. when I was matched against a • much bigger boy in my first fight ever. My first punch was a leaping right that bloodied the other kid's nose, and they had to stop it. I’ve used the punch ever since. (Patterson said this as if he considered the punch a lucky charm which should not be disposed of).

Q. Judging by the fact that five of the last seven heavyweight champions have been Olympic titleholders, it would seem that the Olympics are the ideal training ground for heavyweights. Do you agree?

A. Once a man wins the Olympics, it places him at the top of the amateurs, and he picks up an awful lot of experience along the way. You shouldn't rush a fighter. Spinks was rushed.

Q. You began as a middleweight. What prompted you to turn heavyweight?

A. Nothing prompted me. the weight came natural and the heavyweights were the prestige division at the time. But occasionally I would drop as low as 172 or 173 in training and 1 would have to eat heavy foods, like steak, for breakfast. I can't stand that type of food in the morning, so what I used to do was take a mouthful and walk slowly around the room chewing it.

Q. Did Cus D'Amato eventually see you fighting Marciano? His retirement had not been envisioned as you made your way up through the heavies.

A. Yes. Cus thought I would fight Marciano.

Q. Do you agree with the frequent charge that D'Amato overprotected you?

A. No. Cus had more faith in me than I had in myself. My attitude then was that “if Cus says I can do it, then I can”.
Also, and I don't know if you remember this; but there was an organization called the 1BC, run by Jim Norris; and 1 was boycotted by it because Norris and D'Amato couldn't agree. I wanted .to fight Zora Folley and Eddie Machen then, but we ended up importing people like Brian London for defences because the IBC had very little control over foreign fighters. I ended up with the leavings. which was not the way 1 wanted it.

Q. As you became more the veteran, did your basic style alter in any way?

A. No. it never altered. If 1 were to fight tomorrow, I would fight the same way.

Q. And as you became more the veteran, did you have trouble sticking to the grind? Did you ever have trouble getting "UP" for a fight, as Muhammad Ali has so often been troubled of late?

A. I've had trouble getting 'up' for fights ever since the second Johansson fight. I didn't want to dislike him. but he made me dislike him by what he said in the newspapers. I was really afraid. I saw him lying there with his foot twitching and the blood coming out of his mouth, he was like a dead man. I never want to witness that kind of scene again. It affected me in every fight I had after it.

Q. There is a word in the english language—"Lithe". Yourself and Ezzard Charles are the only recent heavy champs who depended on this quality, it was all size and muscle for the others. Spinks and Marciano were small men, but all muscle. And Ali is a master boxer, but also 6'3" and 220. Do you feel it was an advantage or a disadvantage being
small for a heavyweight?

A. I feel it was an advantage, especially as far as speed was concerned. And it also helped me on both offense and defense. The best heavyweight are the ones who gradually grown into the class—this helps them maintain their early speed. If you're born heavy, you don't have speed. Even Clay grew into the heavyweights from a lighter weight, and
this helped him with his speed.

Q. How do you feel about the occasional talk of splitting the heavyweights into two classes-regular weights and dreadnoughts?

A. I wouldn't like such a thing—it detracts from the class as a whole.

Q. Do you feel it is good for the boxing world now that the heavyweight title is a global affair, with such exotic locations for defences as Zaire and Kuala Lampur. Shouldn't heavy defenses be held in the U.S.?

A. When you have A WORLD heavyweight champion, that's just how it should . be—you should defend around the world, so ail the people can see you. and what you represent—the United States.

Q. And how do you feel about the issue of inflated purses? The dream of a promoter used to be a million-dollar gate. Now he has to pay each fighter a million apiece for a quality heavyweight match.

A. The growth is good. Everything is going up. with the addition of closed-circuit television; it has become a far wider proposition and deserving of what it earns and pays.

Q. And what can be done about the bane of boxing, the "split' title? Especially in the lighter divisions, when n? frequently have two champs who refuse to fight out of their respective home countries, making the needed showdown match near impossible.

A. I can only answer that in terms of the authority of the New York Commission and who it recognizes in these sort of things. If Clay and Holmes Were to fight here. Clay would be announced as the heavy champ and Holmes as the No. 1 contender. It would be better to have only one champ in each division, but we have no control over the foreign countries*

Q. How do you stay in fighting trim—you are seldom off from your fighting weight of old?

A. I do a lot of working out at my camp and a lot of running. I boxed 32 rounds last night, for exercise.

Q. What can be done about the epidemic of mismatches, and the problem of the stiff and the professional opponent?

A. You should get better promoters to prevent mismatches. Follow the example of the No. 1 matchmaker, in my opinion.
Teddy Brenner. I can't recall his ever making a mismatch, although there must have been a few. The new man, Gil Clancy, has yet to prove himself, but he's been around a long time, so we'll see.

Q. There is another class of fight, the 'exercise' bout—such as Ali-Evangelista. Or say, in between the two Quarry fights in 1966-67, you scored a one-round kayo over one Billy McMurray. Comment please.

A. I can understand a fighter's need for this type of fight, especially after you're going to gas out awful fast. if Clay wants to have that type of fight, he is perfectly entitled. He has ducked no one.

Q. How close do you think Ali is to retirement?

A. I think he will fight again, but not for long. No longer than a year, about 2 or three fights. But I read that he was planning to take eight months off and do nothing at the age of 36. Consider this a message to him—you take that long off at 36 and it takes you over a year to get your reflexes back. I know because 1 once lost mine—more than once. And the older 1 was. the longer it took to regain them.

Q. Who was the best fighter you ever saw any division?

A. The best all-around, pound-for-pound was Sugar Ray Robinson. There is usually a flaw somewhere in a fighter, but he could do just about everything.

Q. While nr are on the subject analyzing fighters. I will ask you for your opinions about some of your more prominent opponents, as fighters.

(a) GEORGE CHUVALO—Very strong. like a bull.
(b) OSCAR BONAVENA—A bull, similar to Chuvalo.
(c) JERRY QUARRY—Strong and a good puncher, but not a bull
(d) ARCHIE MOORE—One of the greats. He had the greatest sneak right 1 ever saw—it came from nowhere. I watched that right constantly during our title match. He got his opportunities rather late.
(e) JOEY MAXIM—A superb boxer but not much of a puncher
(f) INGEMAR JOHANSSON— He had a tremendous right, he was a superb fighter the night he beat me.
(g) MUHAMMAD ALI—Cassius is super, but not yet the greatest
(h) HURRICANE JACKSON—The best conditioned fighter I ever fought or saw. He took a tremendous punch and he's the only fighter I saw who jumped up and down during the minute between rounds

(i) This reporter mentions HENRY COOPER. Patterson wavers, and I say that perhaps it is difficult for him to offer an opinion because Cooper was not at his best the night he fought Patterson (losing by KO4). Patterson offered this response:
I've never known a fighter to be at his best the night he lost. You must always find some excuse for defeat—otherwise, you are accepting defeat. I have been defeated physically. but never mentally, (pauses). You know, the sorest loser I ever fought was Brian London. 1 visited London in 1972, we met and shook hands, and before I left England I picked up the papers and he had blasted me in an interview, and much of it went back to our title fight thirteen years earlier. Yes. he ' was the sorest loser I ever fought.

Q. Is there any such thing as a typical day in the life of Floyd Patterson. Executive?

A.That's a hard one. (He goes on to describe a fairly busy schedule of appearances). You know, one day upstate I was doing 'rock work for mv house's garden, and I drove up a mountain for a load of flat rocks. I loaded them into a pickup truck that looked like it had four flats when I got through loading those heavy rocks. I was wearing heavy work boots and a torn undershirt, I looked like a real slob. I pulled in to a gasstation where I know the attendant and he kidded me about my appearance. I went back a week later, and the attendant said that he had seen me on television on a Dean Martin Friar's Roast of Cassius Clay, all done up in a tuxedo, and he couldn't believe the difference. (Patterson fingers his immaculate light blue business suit). These clothes aren't me. I'm only comfortable working outdoors in the country. If I dressed this way all the time. I would lose my ability.

Q. Are you still recognized on the street?

A. Yes. and it amazes me, I haven't fought in six years.

Q. Are there any noticeable difference in a champ's life when he suddenly becomes an ex-champ?

A. Yes. definitely. The training is gone. The sacrifice is gone. So many things are no longer there. One good thing. I never really care for the limelight, and that was one of the things that goes. I don't really have to train any more, but I miss the sacrificing. I'll probably never fight again, but I don't think I'll ever retire publicly, either.

Q. A few background details about some of,,your more prominent matches. The one with Pete Rademacher, for instance.

A. Pete had people convinced he would beat me—and I would fight my own mother tomorrow for $250,000. So' I took the bout.

Q. And the Ellis fight in Sweden. Do you feel you won that fight?

A. I thought we had it agreed before the fight that Teddy Waltham, a Britisher whom I trusted, would be the referee. I was training in the country. 20 miles outside Stockholm. and I didn't know that Valan was going to referee. I didn't know it until the day after the fight, when I mentioned that I couldn't question Teddy's decision and a Swedish friend told me that Valan had refereed. Then. I flipped. Later. I found out that Valan and Ellis had stayed at the same hotel in Stockholm and were seen having dinner together frequently. A few days later. I saw the film of the fight and thought I had won the majority of the rounds. But I am happy Ellis won because I like him as a person. I have no bitterness at all. I have had a long and beautiful career, and have done things I had only dreamed of doing before.

Q. Does it affect a fighter's performance, knowing that the crowd is on liis side? Can a fighter involved in a tough light actually even hear the crowd, or is he too engrossed?

A. The crowd certainly can affect a fighter's performance positively. In the fight with George Chuvalo I had lost four straight rounds, seven through ten. and went back to my corner totally exhausted. But I heard the crowd yelling ' C'MON FLOYD!", and I was amazed, especially since Chuvalo was white and so were ninety percent of the fans. I learned that night that the mind can kill the body, if you let it. I won the last two rounds, and the crowd did it for me. I had to go to bed for four or five days after that fight.

Q. You are currently involved in a project having to do with the eyesight of fighters. I understand.

A. Yes. The main damage a fighter suffers in his ring career is the detatchcd retina. I know a few fighters from my period who suffered them, and some are getting steadily worse. We need more extensive eye examinations. and a re-check of the eyes each time a boxer has his license renewed. (Note: Patterson's brother Ray had to retire from boxing because of a detached retina.)

Q. What were the high and low points of your pro career? (I mean in the ring, but Patterson generously expands the question to include all fields).

A. The high points were all the victories, especially the ones over moore and the Second Johansson bout. But the highlight of my life, and this may sound corny, was thirteen years ago when I married my beautiful - wife. As for the lowest point, saying good-bye to the ring would be the lowest point. Nothing could surpass that.

Q. Looking back on your career with 100% hindsight, any regrets?

A. None whatsoever. I wouldn't change a thing, especially not the defeats, because they above all help you learn about your self better. From now on I will never be ashamed of being ashamed. There will never be another moustache and beard but I will never condemn myself for it.

Q. In your own words, how would you explain your continuing popularity with fight fans ?

A. That's very hard for me to answer. I like people and people like me. I just really can't say.

[yancey]

Great interview! I loved Floyd. My second favorite boxer of all-time, only behind Smokin' Joe.

Floyd's peek a boo style was really appealing to me as a young student of boxing. Always on his toes, lithe, probing and looking for an opening to unleash that super fast hand speed. His knockout of Cooper was a great example of Floyd's ability.

Floyd was also a great gentleman. It is interesting that he seemingly held no bitterness about some of those decisions that went against him. He legitimately won the Ellis fight and second Quarry fight, imo.

[JC]

Thanks for posting

Two parts were particularly interesting to me.

That the peek-a-boo style in part came from his trainer prior to D’Amato

The effect his KO of Johansson in their rematch had on his later motivation.

[Controversial]

Yeah it was an interesting read, he was very honest and not at all flash. I was surprised he still referred to Ali as Cassius Clay though, I wonder why he done that? The Johansson KO clearly had a bad effect on him which lasted for the remainder of his career.

[goose 5]

Thank you for posting this- great interview.

[Caractacus]

Just watched this (because I seemed to have remembered that Floyd Patterson was even knocked down in this one somewhere) but decided to post it in this thread instead.
-1961-