JOHN DUDDY IS NOT BRITISH!!!!

slapbangwhallop · Post by **slapbangwhallop** » 05 Oct 2006, 18:42

The Hawk wrote:Well, if they change John Duddy, they have better change Mr Eamonn Magees as he's down as British as well

Would not be like Northern Ireland to cause argument over nationality would it now

Problem is, ask people in Northern Ireland what Nationality they are and you'll get a host of answers, some people don't even know 100% themselves

Does Eamonn hold an Irish passport??

slapbangwhallop · Post by **slapbangwhallop** » 05 Oct 2006, 18:43

stujones wrote:On a slightly different note, is Ben Dunne eligable to fight for the British title? Does the fact he is fighting for the EBU title, mean he can fight for the British?

If, yes, he will be in my rankings next month.

no

The Hawk · Post by **The Hawk** » 05 Oct 2006, 18:45

sligobhoy67 wrote:
The Hawk wrote:Well, if they change John Duddy, they have better change Mr Eamonn Magees as he's down as British as well

Would not be like Northern Ireland to cause argument over nationality would it now

Problem is, ask people in Northern Ireland what Nationality they are and you'll get a host of answers, some people don't even know 100% themselves
Does Eamonn hold an Irish passport??

I'd be surprised if anyone in the part of Belfast Eamonn Magee is from held a British passport

The Hawk · Post by **The Hawk** » 05 Oct 2006, 18:53

Oh NO! The plot thickens

Damaen Kelly ?

What a funny country

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 05 Oct 2006, 19:11

Well Kelly won the British and the Commonwealth title just like Magee.

Surely you can only fight for them based on your passports nationality as if Eamon and Kelly held just Irish ones then they wouldn't be eligible.

The Hawk · Post by **The Hawk** » 05 Oct 2006, 19:21

Max Molyneux wrote:Well Kelly won the British and the Commonwealth title just like Magee.

Surely you can only fight for them based on your passports nationality as if Eamon and Kelly held just Irish ones then they wouldn't be eligible.

Well thats the thing, if your born in Northern Ireland you can have an Irish passport and no British passport and your still part of the United Kingdon because of were you live so Im sure you can fight for the British title under this. Thats the confusion!

.....it is because of the problems here over the years.

I just added Kelly in for the laugh of it, because where would you go when recording Boxers from Northern Ireland due to this, I see why they record all Boxers from Northern Ireland as British as its a country under British rule just like England, Scotland and Wales or record keeping would be a total confusion. They are going on the territory of Northern Ireland rather than passports for the records.

Goz · Post by **Goz** » 06 Oct 2006, 04:39

Can't believe some dumb plastic paddy (like that term) has the capacity to initiate a thread of such length!

And then some other cock who claims to be located in Manchester (but says the English are hated

) joins in to keep it going.

If you can't see that Merc simply came on here to start a bit of 'trouble' then you are as bigger kunt as he is.

TerribleTerry · Post by **TerribleTerry** » 06 Oct 2006, 04:51

Goz wrote:Can't believe some dumb plastic paddy

Thanks Goz. You pitch up for your bi-monthly post with some nice racist overtones in your statement.

Dont stay away for so long next time eh mate?

Merc might be dumb, but is has nothing to do with him being a paddy, plastic or otherwise.

Would you be as quick to label a poster a 'dumb darkie'? No, didnt think so.

I am first generation Irish and I dont appreciated thinly veiled racist slurs - now fukc off back to Pinner you commute-my-lifeaway- lower middle class english wannabe.

See, we can all make snap judgements/generalistions based on a little knowledge of someone.

Goz · Post by **Goz** » 06 Oct 2006, 05:41

Ummm...

I have posts than you to my name so I guess I do post more than bi-monthly? Admittedly a lot less of late but threads like this don't help (so I've gone and posted on it

)

I wasn't the first to coin the phrase 'plastic paddy' on this thread and anyway it's very appropriate in Merc's case and I don't think it has particularly racist tones at all.

If anything I'm standing up for what it means to be Irish and think the Irish could do without dicks like that coming on to forums like this starting off a load of anti-Brit rhetoric?

If you're too thick to see that then you can phuck off as well.

And by mentioning the 'dumb darkie' comparasion you've chosen to ignore the 'plastic' bit meaning:

1 - You may be stupid and don't understand it, but I think you do really.
2 - You are offended by Paddy, most genuine Irish people I know aren't and I know several who go by the name.
3 - I probably wouldn't use 'Darkie' but I would happily label one of those little white chavs who walks around talking like they are black as a 'plastic black' or something as appropriate.

And I don't live in Pinner anymore but in Bucks, right in the heart of Middle Class England and I mainly work from home

ebeneezer · Post by **ebeneezer** » 06 Oct 2006, 05:41

Terence wrote:Ask anyone in Ireland their nationality and they will swell with pride, puff out their chest and reply (in perfect BBC English) "Nigerian sir!"

Or Lithuanian.

Goz · Post by **Goz** » 06 Oct 2006, 05:45

Terence wrote: Nice one Goz, breaking up my crucial double post there matey

Timing like Pretty Boy Floyd!

Goz · Post by **Goz** » 06 Oct 2006, 05:48

Just to add I actually have a higher daily post rate than Ol Terrible Terry as well

Not that I would for one minute suggest that this in some way adds more credibility to one posters comments than another....

TerribleTerry · Post by **TerribleTerry** » 06 Oct 2006, 05:54

Goz wrote:Ummm...

I have posts than you to my name so I guess I do post more than bi-monthly? Admittedly a lot less of late but threads like this don't help (so I've gone and posted on it )

I wasn't the first to coin the phrase 'plastic paddy' on this thread and anyway it's very appropriate in Merc's case and I don't think it has particularly racist tones at all.

If anything I'm standing up for what it means to be Irish and think the Irish could do without dicks like that coming on to forums like this starting off a load of anti-Brit rhetoric?

If you're too thick to see that then you can phuck off as well.

And by mentioning the 'dumb darkie' comparasion you've chosen to ignore the 'plastic' bit meaning:

1 - You may be stupid and don't understand it, but I think you do really.
2 - You are offended by Paddy, most genuine Irish people I know aren't and I know several who go by the name.
3 - I probably wouldn't use 'Darkie' but I would happily label one of those little white chavs who walks around talking like they are black as a 'plastic black' or something as appropriate.

And I don't live in Pinner anymore but in Bucks, right in the heart of Middle Class England and I mainly work from home

Sorry Goz, you do have plenty of posts. Didnt think you did to be honest. I suppose the points you make must be of such little consequence that I generally ignore or dismiss them in their entirety.

I am not offended particularly by paddy but by pre-fixing it with dumb (you did realise you had done that didnt you - or is it you who is a bit stupid?) you brough forth the images of the standard english slur against the Irish. Its a very glib, throw away statement 'thick mick' and the like, but its one I dont particularly care for, hence pulling you up on the topic.

The reason I know pinner to be a lower middle class commuter belt town is because I met a good lad from there many years ago whilst at university in York *shock horror..a paddy with a degree..whatever next.* My first class honours in black top laying and advanced spadework has held me in very good sted thank you very much...

Glad to hear that you have bettered yourself through nerdy pursuits...your lot have inherited the world, have you not?

Goz · Post by **Goz** » 06 Oct 2006, 06:05

Depends on your definition of nerdy to be honest!

Whatever I still think you missed the point of my post and that you conveniently chose to ignore the relevance of the word 'plastic' right in between dumb & Paddy.

Therefore could a plastic Paddy be dumb but not a Paddy? I think so...

Regarding the quality of my posts, yes they probably aren't all that interesting but one mans interesting post is another man's bore so who's to say eh?

I know I don't have time these days to scan Boxing forums 24/7, too busy earning a crust sitting on my nerdy arse.

slapbangwhallop · Post by **slapbangwhallop** » 06 Oct 2006, 06:34

The Hawk wrote:
sligobhoy67 wrote:
The Hawk wrote:Well, if they change John Duddy, they have better change Mr Eamonn Magees as he's down as British as well

Would not be like Northern Ireland to cause argument over nationality would it now

Problem is, ask people in Northern Ireland what Nationality they are and you'll get a host of answers, some people don't even know 100% themselves
Does Eamonn hold an Irish passport??
I'd be surprised if anyone in the part of Belfast Eamonn Magee is from held a British passport

Hi Hawk, I know that - however, I am just askingthe question as I am not 100% sure of Magees postion, also Magee fought for a commonwealth title so he may have had to produce a passport from a commonwealth country for that fight.

Also as an amatuer Duddy fought for Irish titles, lived and trained in Dublin and also for Ireland on a national level - I am not sure in eamonn did.

slapbangwhallop · Post by **slapbangwhallop** » 06 Oct 2006, 06:35

Max Molyneux wrote:Well Kelly won the British and the Commonwealth title just like Magee.

Surely you can only fight for them based on your passports nationality as if Eamon and Kelly held just Irish ones then they wouldn't be eligible.

For once I agree with Max - however was this pre GFA?? Then it is possible that their status has changed

slapbangwhallop · Post by **slapbangwhallop** » 06 Oct 2006, 06:43

Goz wrote:Depends on your definition of nerdy to be honest!

Whatever I still think you missed the point of my post and that you conveniently chose to ignore the relevance of the word 'plastic' right in between dumb & Paddy.

Therefore could a plastic Paddy be dumb but not a Paddy? I think so...

Regarding the quality of my posts, yes they probably aren't all that interesting but one mans interesting post is another man's bore so who's to say eh?

I know I don't have time these days to scan Boxing forums 24/7, too busy earning a crust sitting on my nerdy arse.

I dont think there is any real need to bring race, religion or skin colour into this arguement - this DEBATE should be purely about facts and the consitancy of Boxrecs implanmentation of the facts.

Goz · Post by **Goz** » 06 Oct 2006, 07:02

I agree Sligo but the tone of the thread sort of got set with the very first post.

Boxrec should probably seek clarification and put it right but bear in mind Boxrec aren't the BBBC either, this site isn't run as an official organisation or as a profit-making venture (at least I don't think so) so to some degree Mr Shepherd can tell you all to fornicate off because he can print what he likes.

SticknMove · Post by **SticknMove** » 06 Oct 2006, 07:07

Sligo,

If you read back through the posts (as I know you have because you replied to most of them that appeared to have an anti-Irish slant), you would see that MERC started this shit by throwing abuse at the British forum in general, whilst ignoring a few of the more reasoned posts like my own. It is obvious he was fishing for the very response he got, and people being what they are will happily oblige.

It doesn't change the fact that John Duddy should be classed as Irish, as there is a political framework in place for him to claim that status and it is clearly his wish. That IMO should be respected.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 06 Oct 2006, 07:22

SticknMove wrote:There must be a 1000 posts on this subject already.

The political reality is that the Good Friday Agreement laid the framework, whereby anyone in the political divide can be classed as British or Irish. This has been endorsed in International Law and Nationalist/Republican members of that community can apply for an Irish passport, thus their status is then Irish. This is the simple fact and no other debate is necessary. John Duddy has an Irish passport therefore he is Irish. That should be the end of it.

This is the best boxing website on the internet and has a forum to match and I am baffled as to why boxrec are dragging their heals over what should be, from their standpoint as a boxing forum, a trivial matter.

Perhaps Duddy wants to be classed as British, who knows. My mym was a catholic who grew up in Northern Ireland, and did not have the priviledge of claiming an Irish passport. Duddy wouldn't have done either until recently.

Tehcnically speaking, Northern Ireland is still part of the union, that's a simple fact, so Duddy is in fact technically British. Whether he calls himself Irish or English or British is up to him, but Boxrec is correct in stating him as being someone who is born within the British Isles.

There is no loyalist tone to my argument, as I am the product of two catholics from Northern Ireland, but the facts are plain.

slapbangwhallop · Post by **slapbangwhallop** » 06 Oct 2006, 07:34

Goz wrote:I agree Sligo but the tone of the thread sort of got set with the very first post.

Boxrec should probably seek clarification and put it right but bear in mind Boxrec aren't the BBBC either, this site isn't run as an official organisation or as a profit-making venture (at least I don't think so) so to some degree Mr Shepherd can tell you all to smeg off because he can print what he likes.

I actually dont really (or should I say "shouldnt really") give a shiit what Boxrec list Duddy as because its doesnt make any difference to Duddy in the end - and pretty much every Boxing organisation bar one lists Duddy as Irish anyway.

But its true its up to JohnShep - John Shepherd has been provided with all the details and the facts on Duddy nationality and passport but refuses to change it and wont give a reason (and he has also made racial slurs against Duddy supporters and Irish people in general) - so that is pretty much the end of the line when it comes to Boxrec its only JohnShep that has any say on the issue and the other editors dont count - but still doesnt make it right and infact its his attitude to has cause most of this trouble imo. Also it doesnt do much for Boxrecs credability that he is using the site to reflect his own opinions and stereotypes intsead of it being purely a source of fact based information.

SticknMove wrote:Sligo,

If you read back through the posts (as I know you have because you replied to most of them that appeared to have an anti-Irish slant), you would see that MERC started this shit by throwing abuse at the British forum in general, whilst ignoring a few of the more reasoned posts like my own. It is obvious he was fishing for the very response he got, and people being what they are will happily oblige.

It doesn't change the fact that John Duddy should be classed as Irish, as there is a political framework in place for him to claim that status and it is clearly his wish. That IMO should be respected.

Wouldnt disagree with any of that.

MERC · Post by **MERC** » 06 Oct 2006, 07:40

Sligo,

If you read back through the posts (as I know you have because you replied to most of them that appeared to have an anti-Irish slant), you would see that MERC started this shit by throwing abuse at the British forum in general, whilst ignoring a few of the more reasoned posts like my own. It is obvious he was fishing for the very response he got, and people being what they are will happily oblige.

Actually a day before I started this post I created a thread called duddy... search it and tell me I was being abusive.... funny thing is that thread got 1 response and I wanted to get my point across.

slapbangwhallop · Post by **slapbangwhallop** » 06 Oct 2006, 07:41

jamesmcdonnell wrote:
SticknMove wrote:There must be a 1000 posts on this subject already.

The political reality is that the Good Friday Agreement laid the framework, whereby anyone in the political divide can be classed as British or Irish. This has been endorsed in International Law and Nationalist/Republican members of that community can apply for an Irish passport, thus their status is then Irish. This is the simple fact and no other debate is necessary. John Duddy has an Irish passport therefore he is Irish. That should be the end of it.

This is the best boxing website on the internet and has a forum to match and I am baffled as to why boxrec are dragging their heals over what should be, from their standpoint as a boxing forum, a trivial matter.
Perhaps Duddy wants to be classed as British, who knows. My mym was a catholic who grew up in Northern Ireland, and did not have the priviledge of claiming an Irish passport. Duddy wouldn't have done either until recently.

Tehcnically speaking, Northern Ireland is still part of the union, that's a simple fact, so Duddy is in fact technically British. Whether he calls himself Irish or English or British is up to him, but Boxrec is correct in stating him as being someone who is born within the British Isles.

There is no loyalist tone to my argument, as I am the product of two catholics from Northern Ireland, but the facts are plain.

You are actually wrong James, firstly Dudy has said he wants to be classed as Irish and this information has been passed on to Boxrec from his management.

Secondly - yes NI is still part of the Union but the GFA has altered the criteria for nationality and citizenship which recognises the right to Irish indentity, citizenship and nationality as well as British - I have provided links for all this information before on other threads. Also Boxrec will not clarify if it is this basis with they are using in determining Nationality - thy have also claimed its where they learned to box and anything reason I have been given is its where they won there first title. Dudy won his first title in Dublin, Irleand and also fought as an amatuer for Ireland and trained in Dublin, Ireland

finally the British Isles is a geographical terms and has no legal basis - similar to that of the Irish Sea - its a geographical term - Ireland doesnt actually own the sea.

MERC · Post by **MERC** » 06 Oct 2006, 07:42

I didnt start this post looking for a fight... I just thought it was wrong what boxrec did and I needed to vent... I mean come on he was listed as Irish before he got a little exp then they change that to british, what a joke.

slapbangwhallop · Post by **slapbangwhallop** » 06 Oct 2006, 07:43

MERC wrote:
Sligo,

If you read back through the posts (as I know you have because you replied to most of them that appeared to have an anti-Irish slant), you would see that MERC started this shit by throwing abuse at the British forum in general, whilst ignoring a few of the more reasoned posts like my own. It is obvious he was fishing for the very response he got, and people being what they are will happily oblige.
Actually a day before I started this post I created a thread called duddy... search it and tell me I was being abusive.... funny thing is that thread got 1 response and I wanted to get my point across.

dont worry about it - I dont think the first post was that abusive, especially when compared to the replies you got!