frank bruno vs gary mason

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 04 Oct 2006, 12:33

funso banjo baby wrote:a young bruno shud have fought Neville meade

Meade was a dangerous puncher but was also stopped by lesser hitters than Bruno. I would have favoured Bruno by early KO.

overhand_right · Post by **overhand_right** » 06 Oct 2006, 07:03

The Great John L wrote: only Foreman and Ali stopped Lyle, and most consider the Ali stoppage of a Lyle still on his feet as pre-mature. And considering the fact that he withstood Shavers power and came back, most consider Lyle’s chin quite good.

John L, watch the stoppage again and you tell me that it was "premature"!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQmsMl25yXE

overhand_right · Post by **overhand_right** » 06 Oct 2006, 07:06

An unanswered 37 punch salvo... "premature"...

When is a stoppage apt in your book, John? When one guy is DEAD??

The Great John L · Post by **The Great John L** » 06 Oct 2006, 07:54

overhand_right wrote:
The Great John L wrote: only Foreman and Ali stopped Lyle, and most consider the Ali stoppage of a Lyle still on his feet as pre-mature. And considering the fact that he withstood Shavers power and came back, most consider Lyle’s chin quite good.
John L, watch the stoppage again and you tell me that it was "premature"!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQmsMl25yXE

Yes, it was premature. I felt that way when I saw it live and I still the same way. You must not have seen the Lyle-Shavers or Lyle-Foreman fights, or noticed how lucid Lyle was immediately after the stoppage. And you might be interested to know that not all punches thrown in a fight land, and some that do land don't land very solidly. Lyle took some solid shots and was hurt, but was far from finished. I'm hardly alone in this opinion, and you are in a very small minority in questioning the heart, desire and abilities of Ron Lyle.

overhand_right · Post by **overhand_right** » 06 Oct 2006, 08:58

Johnny boy i've lost respect for ya bud, how can you watch an unanswered 37 punch salvo & claim somehow the other guy was 'stopped unfairly'?

You know the rules of boxing & you are well aware under those circumstances a ref has no choice but to stop the fight. If Lyle was ready to fight/had his faculties he should have hit back or grabbed, he did neither during a 37 punch one sided pasting.

PS I LOVE Lyle, I have all available tape of him: a 1972 documentary, Mathis HLs, edmundo stewart, bill drover, Quarry, Ali, Shavers, Foreman, Young II, Bugner, Ward, LeDoux, Ball, Al Neumann, Cooney... So dont dismiss my comments as some biased ramblings of a Lyle-hater.

The Great John L · Post by **The Great John L** » 06 Oct 2006, 09:39

overhand_right wrote:You know the rules of boxing & you are well aware under those circumstances a ref has no choice but to stop the fight. If Lyle was ready to fight/had his faculties he should have hit back or grabbed, he did neither during a 37 punch one sided pasting.

Yes I do know the rules of boxing -- perhaps I’m missing something, but I know of no rule specifying exactly when a ref stops a fight, except for the ten count, on the advice of a physician, when a fighter quits, or his corner intervenes, and a 3 KD rule. I may have missed a few other subtle ones, but besides the 10 count, the other situations are specific to the commission over seeing the fight. Maybe you aren’t aware of these facts.

Luckily I don’t care if I have your respect. And you must know nothing of this fight or Ron Lyle as a fighter, because you fail to acknowledge how lucid and stable he was immediately after the stoppage, or his demonstrated ability to recover from KDs and solid punches. A good ref is keenly aware of the fighters, especially in a title fight, and takes a fighters history into consideration when stopping a fight. I would not call this fight a robbery, but it was IMO, premature.

You’re entitled to your opinion, but your comment that the “under those circumstances a ref has no choice but to stop the fight” is just silly and shows a complete lack of understanding of the sport and it’s rules. Most stoppages are subjective, and are made with the refs best judgment in a very short period of time. There are few hard and fast rules, so therefore many stoppages are considered controversial.

overhand_right · Post by **overhand_right** » 06 Oct 2006, 10:38

Its impossible to count the amount of fighters we've seen taking a one-sided pasting on the ropes, then the ref finally steps in & all of a sudden the fighter is "lucid", protesting and ready to fight.

Lyle was done, and if he wasn't as you claim, its his own fault & too damn bad!

If Lyle was ready to fight or even capable of defending himself its his own fault for not doing so. At one point he tries grab onto Ali but visibly staggers like a drunk! And ends up propped up on the corner pad.

Still, you think this was an unfair stoppage? You think my opinion that a ref stopping a fight after an unanswered 37 punch barrage is right is "silly"... And im the one who lacks boxing knowledge? Whatever man. You are deluding yourself.

I'd be interested to hear the opinions of everyone else who watches the 11th rd.

The Great John L · Post by **The Great John L** » 06 Oct 2006, 11:01

overhand_right wrote: Still, you think this was an unfair stoppage? You think my opinion that a ref stopping a fight after an unanswered 37 punch barrage is right is "silly"...

Hmmmm, I wonder where you got that from? Not only do you not know anything about the rules of boxing, you also seem to lack basic reading skills.

I said.

You’re entitled to your opinion, but your comment that the “under those circumstances a ref has no choice but to stop the fight” is just silly and shows a complete lack of understanding of the sport and it’s rules.

Get it now, or do I have to simplify my statement a bit?

I also said.

I would not call this fight a robbery, but it was IMO, premature.

Which I think is a very reasonable statement, and acknowledges that it was not a GROSS example of an early stoppage. Quite different than your overly emotional and poorly thought out posts.

Flump · Post by **Flump** » 06 Oct 2006, 12:17

Correct stoppage, no question. Lyle had to show something to the ref to indicate he was in a position to defend himself(i.e throw some punches). Lyle's head was starting to get snapped back towards the end of the barrage which is another sign for the ref to stop the fight. Ali even had time to look at the ref and ask him to stop the fight. If Lyle was as lucid as suggested surely he would at that point have thrown some punches back?

I'm a Lyle fan too but if he wasn't as out of it as he looked then it's his own fault that he got stopped. You can't blame the ref for stopping a fighter who has reeled into the ropes twice and been hit with a seemingly endless barrage of shots and is trapped in a corner not throwing punches.

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 07 Oct 2006, 07:51

mercman wrote:I know what you mean Terence. There are, however, some noteable exceptions. For example, when Larry Holmes asked the ref to stop his fight against Marvis Frazier I think Holmes realised he had Marvis at his mercy and could have done him some damage. I genuinely think he didn't want to hurt Frazier.

Another noteable exception was when Ike Williams stopped Beau Jack in 1948.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 07 Oct 2006, 11:01

Lyle vs Ali was a perfectly good stoppage imo... Lyle was out on his feet and rubbery legged at the finish... in fact Lyle had in common with Bruno that he used to freeze up on the ropes when badly hurt rather than fall down... the same thing happened in his fights with Foreman and Shavers... he was stopped against Foreman in a very simular manner to the Ali stoppage, ie out on his feet in a corner taking punches with no reply... against Shavers a simular thing happened but Lyle managed to come through it when Shavers punched himself out...

Flump · Post by **Flump** » 07 Oct 2006, 19:32

mercman wrote:
PS I LOVE Lyle, I have all available tape of him: a 1972 documentary, Mathis HLs, edmundo stewart, bill drover, Quarry, Ali, Shavers, Foreman, Young II, Bugner, Ward, LeDoux, Ball, Al Neumann, Cooney... So dont dismiss my comments as some biased ramblings of a Lyle-hater.
Overhand what was Lyle v Bugner like? I've seen most of Bugner's big fights but never that one. As we know Bugner went in with some of the best and some of the toughest fighters around but apparently the Lyle fight was the only one that made Bugner think about packing it in for good. Bugner said he hurt for weeks after. I know it went the distance - and many say that as usual Bugner should have won - but did he take a lot of punishment?

Here are the last 2 rounds, hope this helps(Sorry for butting in!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_GjFRr6Yqc