How much experience do you really need?

[Controversial]

This is probably unique to the HWs but once again we see a boxing novice give arguably the P4P king and ATG HW his toughest HW fight. Excuses aside that Usyk was underprepared, on the slide etc the fact is Usyk on paper should've boxed circles around Rico. We also saw boxing novice debutant Ngannou give Fury fits and drop him, many thought Fury lost.

So is it just that these two guys are physically huge and strong that gives them an advantage that experience doesn't?
Or is it that Usyk and Fury weren't as locked in for these fights. Or a bit of both.

The aura around Usyk kind of burst for me last night, he looked very ordinary and was very close to being beaten, that would've made a mockery of the sport.

Rico looked like he would've given most HWs a run for their money which is crazy when you think he's 37 and little boxing experience.

Not quite the same thing but Itauma had around 20 junior amateur fights and zero senior bouts but has so far beaten all his opponents with ease, yes he has gym experience with decent fighters but ultimately he's still a novice in terms of actual fights.

[gregregegg]

If you 6”6 260 it’s a good start

If your coordinated and your now dangerouse.

If you have spend a considerable amount of time cross training boxing your very dangerouse

If you have great cardio. You’re now very very dangerouse.

If you can take a punch/have experence taking punches your very very very dangerous.


Still. Rico/nganu are still probably sub English levle to start with on the cross over journey . But it dosent take much to get them pretty close to brittish levle (one top quality camp)…. (And if they were younger when they came across and played the long game it wouldent take them ages to get to fringe contenders).

Many good heavyweight boxers over the years have skills that would not compare to a mediocre lightweight… basicaly the good guys can get away with just the basics… wilder and joyce and wardly are classic examples of physical gifts doing the heavy lifting, but even guys like AJ, DDD, klitchcos… if you scaled them down to 135 they wouldent win a round… (obviously being bigger makes being better harder, but heavyweight is very much a physical gift game)…

It’s a bit like basketball. To make the nba at 6”2 you have to be unbelievable. To make the nba at 7”2 you just gotta be semi mobile…

[gilgamesh]

Verhoeven has been a Professional fighter nearly his entire Adult life. He may have had relatively little Boxing experience, but he has immense experience as a Fighter.

Punching and Kicking isn't all that radically different of a concept than just Punching.

Defending yourself against attacks. Learning to pace yourself. Learning to time when to attack and with what. Learning to be calm in the ring. These are both required in either sport to make it at the level they've competed at.

[Ruthless-RKO]

I mean he’s still boxer

He’s still A professional athlete and fighter.

Not exactly a novice.

[Coco]

Also Rico was regularly sparring with Tyson Fury 15 years ago.

I didn't give him a hope, but it's wrong to say he is a novice who just crossed over.

He has been in and out of Peter Fury's gym for years, gotta say, as always Peter was impressive, got Rico in great shape, with a good plan, properly prepared, good corner work too

[Controversial]

Novice not the right word, I meant in terms of amateur or pro boxing fights. Usyk and Tyson Fury have been boxing all their lives too and Fury struggled with Ngannou and Rico gave Usyk a harder fight than Fury.

[Boxerbeetle]

If you 6”6 260 it’s a good start

If your coordinated and your now dangerouse.

If you have spend a considerable amount of time cross training boxing your very dangerouse

If you have great cardio. You’re now very very dangerouse.

If you can take a punch/have experence taking punches your very very very dangerous.


Still. Rico/nganu are still probably sub English levle to start with on the cross over journey . But it dosent take much to get them pretty close to brittish levle (one top quality camp)…. (And if they were younger when they came across and played the long game it wouldent take them ages to get to fringe contenders).

Many good heavyweight boxers over the years have skills that would not compare to a mediocre lightweight… basicaly the good guys can get away with just the basics… wilder and joyce and wardly are classic examples of physical gifts doing the heavy lifting, but even guys like AJ, DDD, klitchcos… if you scaled them down to 135 they wouldent win a round… (obviously being bigger makes being better harder, but heavyweight is very much a physical gift game)…

It’s a bit like basketball. To make the nba at 6”2 you have to be unbelievable. To make the nba at 7”2 you just gotta be semi mobile…

Started typing out my own post and then realised you basically covered all the points I was going to make already So obviously agree with all of the above.

Wardley is probably the prime example in recent years of a guy having lots of success with very little experience or skill. Size, strength, fitness, and (probably most of all) determination can go a long long way in the HW division. HW boxing is just very different to the rest of the sport.

[mickey1975]

And Fury is the skillful heavyweight not very blessed physically, except height. As Macho once said, a fantastic boxer but a terrible athlete.

[gregregegg]

And Fury is the skillful heavyweight not very blessed physically, except height. As Macho once said, a fantastic boxer but a terrible athlete.

Hard to say fury being 6”6+ with a 3 mile reach is not blessed physically as a heavyweight boxer.

Bit flabby? sure. Little cock? Mabey…. But he is in boxing not porn so I would say he is blessed physically.

[mickey1975]

And Fury is the skillful heavyweight not very blessed physically, except height. As Macho once said, a fantastic boxer but a terrible athlete.

Hard to say fury being 6”6+ with a 3 mile reach is not blessed physically as a heavyweight boxer.

Bit flabby? sure. Little cock? Mabey…. But he is in boxing not porn so I would say he is blessed physically.

I did say except height.

[gilgamesh]

And Fury is the skillful heavyweight not very blessed physically, except height. As Macho once said, a fantastic boxer but a terrible athlete.

He's not a big puncher, but he has a lot of the other tools meant to make a Boxer successful. Height and reach obviously, but aside from that he's pretty tough and has a lot of heart.

Also reasonable speed for a man of his size as well. Many with his build would be a lot slower.

[Coco]

And Fury is the skillful heavyweight not very blessed physically, except height. As Macho once said, a fantastic boxer but a terrible athlete.

He's not a big puncher, but he has a lot of the other tools meant to make a Boxer successful. Height and reach obviously, but aside from that he's pretty tough and has a lot of heart.

Also reasonable speed for a man of his size as well. Many with his build would be a lot slower.

Top ring IQ too

[veriton]

White Europeans in world heavyweight title fights tells you all you need to know. I just think we're in a very poor era for heavyweight boxing, arguably the worst in history. Fury and Usyk have been humiliated by novices who werent even boxers, not beaten but close to, and exposed.

The hype merchants will say otherwise now as they're trying to sell you something but I don't think history will be kind to this era at all.

[gilgamesh]

White Europeans in world heavyweight title fights tells you all you need to know. I just think we're in a very poor era for heavyweight boxing, arguably the worst in history. Fury and Usyk have been humiliated by novices who werent even boxers, not beaten but close to, and exposed.

The hype merchants will say otherwise now as they're trying to sell you something but I don't think history will be kind to this era at all.

I think it's been a pretty solid era for Heavyweight Boxing. It's a little weak at the moment, but from 2015 to 2025 was a good 10 year run for Heavyweight Boxing.

Right now we're in that transitional phase where the old guard from the previous era are still hanging around, and the new guard haven't yet made their mark.

[joshj909]

White Europeans in world heavyweight title fights tells you all you need to know. I just think we're in a very poor era for heavyweight boxing, arguably the worst in history. Fury and Usyk have been humiliated by novices who werent even boxers, not beaten but close to, and exposed.

The hype merchants will say otherwise now as they're trying to sell you something but I don't think history will be kind to this era at all.

You mean the huge, technical, heavy hitting, durable, evasive, stamina machines that have been training since childhood are terrible because they're white and European? You have an agenda and it's clear. Usyk, Fury, Wlad and Vitali are terrible because their race and where they're from but Rocky Marciano, Jack Dempsey, Gene Tunney are probably legends?

[mickey1975]

I'm genuinely not just saying this to take away from Usyk as I think he's brilliant, but I don't think history will have him anywhere near the top of the ATGs at heavyweight. Cruiser, definitely. Fury was at least a few years past his best when he beat him and AJ has been shot mentally since Ruiz. Recency bias is mad.

[veriton]

I am white and European so not sure what agenda im supposed to be having here.

It's clear the talent is not coming from the USA any more, as it always used to. That has left us with poor standard heavyweights. Usyk and Fury getting embarrassed in circus fights speaks for itself, however you want to spin it up.

[dookus]

Usyk is 39 and just had his 375th fight (amateur or pro). Lewis was retired by this point, as were most of the greats. No need for a lot of soul-searching. He's finally become old. It happens to everyone.

[coneye]

If you 6”6 260 it’s a good start

If your coordinated and your now dangerouse.

If you have spend a considerable amount of time cross training boxing your very dangerouse

If you have great cardio. You’re now very very dangerouse.

If you can take a punch/have experence taking punches your very very very dangerous.


Still. Rico/nganu are still probably sub English levle to start with on the cross over journey . But it dosent take much to get them pretty close to brittish levle (one top quality camp)…. (And if they were younger when they came across and played the long game it wouldent take them ages to get to fringe contenders).

Many good heavyweight boxers over the years have skills that would not compare to a mediocre lightweight… basicaly the good guys can get away with just the basics… wilder and joyce and wardly are classic examples of physical gifts doing the heavy lifting, but even guys like AJ, DDD, klitchcos… if you scaled them down to 135 they wouldent win a round… (obviously being bigger makes being better harder, but heavyweight is very much a physical gift game)…

It’s a bit like basketball. To make the nba at 6”2 you have to be unbelievable. To make the nba at 7”2 you just gotta be semi mobile…

Good post basicly, Nail ____head throw in toughness with akwardness coming from a fit strong ,world class tough , guy with a ltd , but experienced skill set . AND basicly its gonna take the experienced boxer a bit longer to work him out . Dont know if it was down to Peter or his regular coach . But they used his novicy style to there advantage . . They rematch Usyk will put him away a lot quicker suprise was there maim weapon

[tigermoth87]

I commented this in another thread but, boxing is the easiest sport in the world to compete in a professional or even world level at.

You've had fighters from other sports twice now, come in and compete and almost beat world champions.
You've had YouTubers come in and beat pros and crack the top 100

Doesn't happen with any other sport in the world. If a YouTuber today tried to compete in tennis with the bare minimum of training, he would get smoked in his first match.

If the Badminton world champion competed against Novak, he would get absolutely smoked.

If a 100m sprinter decided to try his hand at a marathon he wouldnt finish anywhere near the front.

[Sweet Dick Willie]

I think a 100 m sprinter who has also trained for marathons for the last 20 years has a fair chance.

Badminton is fundamentally very very different from tennis.

Ex youtuber turned into a professional boxer Jake Paul got absolutely smoked by Anthony Joshua.

Have you who now after this Rico incident got all excited saying boxing is the easiest sport in the world ever tried boxing? Trust me, it's not easy.

I sparred with a kickboxer a couple of weeks ago and absolutely demolished him!

[tigermoth87]

Ex youtuber turned into a professional boxer Jake Paul got absolutely smoked by Anthony Joshua.

But he also beat professional boxers before that and got ranked in the top 100. There is no other sport in the world where someone is going to get top 100 ranked with minimal training and compete competitively against professionals.

Like football--if a YouTuber with minimal training decided to play professional football. He wouldn't even be able to compete in the lower tiers.

[Sweet Dick Willie]

I agree that the ranking system is bs and Paul shouldn't have been anywhere near someone like AJ, but in his case I don't think we can talk about minimal training. He worked his way up. Not to the point of fighting a world champion, but still did work.

With minimal training you don't beat a world level boxer. Unless you're up against Leon Spinks.

[margaret thatcher]

you dont need much experience, which is why we get all these elite boxers and world champs who are new to the sport, and combat sports in general

the top contenders also just filled with these types too

[margaret thatcher]

btw wasnt this exact thread already made? i recall the moses example coming up, but hes boxed since he was a kid and been sparring top pros since like 15..that is hugely valuable experience even if not official fights. and then he had amateur bouts vs the best in his world his age. hes still a young developing fighter at 22 anyway, not liek hes cleared out the elite yet and just walked into pros and started doing that straight away. look at the early decisions he had too, already he's more destructive.

the vast majority of fighters with pretty much no boxing experience, you simply havent heard of. peeps are only aware of the most famous cases, which immediately biases it towards the more successful ones