BoxRec Forum HW Top 15 ranking - Usyk / Rico/ Sanchez / Torres

[joshj909]

So in other words "only results count and not performance". If so, why waste your time rating heavyweights, just let the boxrec algorithm do it for you. If you can't see that being ahead on the cards against a top 3 p4p fighter on your first serious attempt means that you are a class above the bottom third of people in the ladder, some who have fought no-one at all, then lordy, you need to widen your horizons dude.

Wasn't ahead on the cards to start with. Also. The boxrec algorithm is flawed, which is why these rankings were started. Did you have Ngannou top 5 in the heavyweight division when he faced Fury and before he was flattened by Joshua?

YES Ngannou was a Top 10 Heavyweight after his effort against Fury. Giving the Heavyweight Champion a harder fight than any of his other challengers has given him has to mean you're a World Class fighter doesn't it? At least for the moment.

Give fighters credit when they do something special. It wouldn't hurt you any.

I can say fair play to them for doing better than expected but if the whole point of boxing is to try and win and he hasn't managed to do that

[gilgamesh]

Wasn't ahead on the cards to start with. Also. The boxrec algorithm is flawed, which is why these rankings were started. Did you have Ngannou top 5 in the heavyweight division when he faced Fury and before he was flattened by Joshua?

YES Ngannou was a Top 10 Heavyweight after his effort against Fury. Giving the Heavyweight Champion a harder fight than any of his other challengers has given him has to mean you're a World Class fighter doesn't it? At least for the moment.

Give fighters credit when they do something special. It wouldn't hurt you any.

I can say fair play to them for doing better than expected but if the whole point of boxing is to try and win and he hasn't managed to do that

The whole point of Boxing and any other sport is to compete at a high enough level that you can make a living at it.

[joshj909]

YES Ngannou was a Top 10 Heavyweight after his effort against Fury. Giving the Heavyweight Champion a harder fight than any of his other challengers has given him has to mean you're a World Class fighter doesn't it? At least for the moment.

Give fighters credit when they do something special. It wouldn't hurt you any.

I can say fair play to them for doing better than expected but if the whole point of boxing is to try and win and he hasn't managed to do that

The whole point of Boxing and any other sport is to compete at a high enough level that you can make a living at it.

That's the whole point of the business but it's not the whole point of the sport.

[conan_the_cribber]

So in other words "only results count and not performance". If so, why waste your time rating heavyweights, just let the boxrec algorithm do it for you. If you can't see that being ahead on the cards against a top 3 p4p fighter on your first serious attempt means that you are a class above the bottom third of people in the ladder, some who have fought no-one at all, then lordy, you need to widen your horizons dude.

Wasn't ahead on the cards to start with. Also. The boxrec algorithm is flawed, which is why these rankings were started. Did you have Ngannou top 5 in the heavyweight division when he faced Fury and before he was flattened by Joshua?

YES Ngannou was a Top 10 Heavyweight after his effort against Fury. Giving the Heavyweight Champion a harder fight than any of his other challengers has given him has to mean you're a World Class fighter doesn't it? At least for the moment.

Give fighters credit when they do something special. It wouldn't hurt you any.

Exactly. It's the performance, not the result.

[conan_the_cribber]

In terms of eating guys positively, winning quite clearly matters most. Then draws. Then performances in losses. Right now he has absolutely no relevant wins. Loads of guys can win rounds against better guys because styles make fights but if they can't see it out they weren't good enough. Rico has not proven that he can beat any of the top 15. If he thinks that he is good enough to beat one of them he should schedule a fight with one and try to win, he'd get into my top 10 any doing that.

So in other words "only results count and not performance". If so, why waste your time rating heavyweights, just let the boxrec algorithm do it for you. If you can't see that being ahead on the cards against a top 3 p4p fighter on your first serious attempt means that you are a class above the bottom third of people in the ladder, some who have fought no-one at all, then lordy, you need to widen your horizons dude.

Wasn't ahead on the cards to start with. Also. The boxrec algorithm is flawed, which is why these rankings were started. Did you have Ngannou top 5 in the heavyweight division when he faced Fury and before he was flattened by Joshua?

I tell you what Josh. I got a lazy 200 Dollars, that I will wager with you, that if Rico gets sighed to a fight with anyone in your 10-15 range, then Rico wins. Do you want to take that bet? Would you wager at even money odds Rico vs Torrez Jr?

[Ruthless-RKO]

A lot of wilder opponents not ranked highly won plenty of rounds against him, only to be sparked out.

[joshj909]

So in other words "only results count and not performance". If so, why waste your time rating heavyweights, just let the boxrec algorithm do it for you. If you can't see that being ahead on the cards against a top 3 p4p fighter on your first serious attempt means that you are a class above the bottom third of people in the ladder, some who have fought no-one at all, then lordy, you need to widen your horizons dude.

Wasn't ahead on the cards to start with. Also. The boxrec algorithm is flawed, which is why these rankings were started. Did you have Ngannou top 5 in the heavyweight division when he faced Fury and before he was flattened by Joshua?

I tell you what Josh. I got a lazy 200 Dollars, that I will wager with you, that if Rico gets sighed to a fight with anyone in your 10-15 range, then Rico wins. Do you want to take that bet? Would you wager at even money odds Rico vs Torrez Jr?

That's not the point I'm making but I'd consider it depending on the opponent. If he does win that then obviously he can get ranked. Right now he hasn't done that. Him beating anyone at all is still only hypothetical.

[Cyclops]

A lot of wilder opponents not ranked highly won plenty of rounds against him, only to be sparked out.

Wilder was a poor technical boxer who regularly dropped rounds against everybody, even relatively very low level fighters with limited skills before he nuked them.

Usyk is an excellent boxer who usually pieces people up systematically while winning rounds, beautifully, against the highest level opponents available across two divisions.

So I reckon that's why someone knocking him around and taking rounds off him is significantly more impressive than someone winning rounds against Wilder.

[conan_the_cribber]

Wasn't ahead on the cards to start with. Also. The boxrec algorithm is flawed, which is why these rankings were started. Did you have Ngannou top 5 in the heavyweight division when he faced Fury and before he was flattened by Joshua?

I tell you what Josh. I got a lazy 200 Dollars, that I will wager with you, that if Rico gets sighed to a fight with anyone in your 10-15 range, then Rico wins. Do you want to take that bet? Would you wager at even money odds Rico vs Torrez Jr?

That's not the point I'm making but I'd consider it depending on the opponent. If he does win that then obviously he can get ranked. Right now he hasn't done that. Him beating anyone at all is still only hypothetical.

It's exactly the point Josh. If you are unwilling to make that bet, that means you think it's not a fair bet. Otherwise you would jump on it. That means, in your mind, you think that Rico is better. What are you basing that on? before the fight you had zero knowledge. Now that the fight is over you have knowledge. You have the knowledge that Rico can go within an inch of beating a p4p top 3 fighter. So the question is do you sit there and go "Hmmmm I don't have enough knowledge to know how good Rico is?" or do you go "Damn, Rico is one damn good fighter, probably better than the people with inflated records at the bottom of the list".

You choose the first answer if you're a computer, and the second if you're a human. Or if you truly believe that there's not enough info out there, then take that bet.

[George_Jones88]

Usyk - 1
Sanchez - 9
Torrez - 13
Rico - 15

[joshj909]

I tell you what Josh. I got a lazy 200 Dollars, that I will wager with you, that if Rico gets sighed to a fight with anyone in your 10-15 range, then Rico wins. Do you want to take that bet? Would you wager at even money odds Rico vs Torrez Jr?

That's not the point I'm making but I'd consider it depending on the opponent. If he does win that then obviously he can get ranked. Right now he hasn't done that. Him beating anyone at all is still only hypothetical.

It's exactly the point Josh. If you are unwilling to make that bet, that means you think it's not a fair bet. Otherwise you would jump on it. That means, in your mind, you think that Rico is better. What are you basing that on? before the fight you had zero knowledge. Now that the fight is over you have knowledge. You have the knowledge that Rico can go within an inch of beating a p4p top 3 fighter. So the question is do you sit there and go "Hmmmm I don't have enough knowledge to know how good Rico is?" or do you go "Damn, Rico is one damn good fighter, probably better than the people with inflated records at the bottom of the list".

You choose the first answer if you're a computer, and the second if you're a human. Or if you truly believe that there's not enough info out there, then take that bet.

I'm not taking a $200 bet when i don't even know if it will happen, who the opponent would be and when it would happen. Who takes that bet? Are you an idiot?

[Bobbyptsd]

Usyk stays at #1
Rico enters at #8
Sanchez to #10
Torrez to #15

[conan_the_cribber]

That's not the point I'm making but I'd consider it depending on the opponent. If he does win that then obviously he can get ranked. Right now he hasn't done that. Him beating anyone at all is still only hypothetical.

It's exactly the point Josh. If you are unwilling to make that bet, that means you think it's not a fair bet. Otherwise you would jump on it. That means, in your mind, you think that Rico is better. What are you basing that on? before the fight you had zero knowledge. Now that the fight is over you have knowledge. You have the knowledge that Rico can go within an inch of beating a p4p top 3 fighter. So the question is do you sit there and go "Hmmmm I don't have enough knowledge to know how good Rico is?" or do you go "Damn, Rico is one damn good fighter, probably better than the people with inflated records at the bottom of the list".

You choose the first answer if you're a computer, and the second if you're a human. Or if you truly believe that there's not enough info out there, then take that bet.

I'm not taking a $200 bet when i don't even know if it will happen, who the opponent would be and when it would happen. Who takes that bet? Are you an idiot?

Lol. It's a thought experiment dude, trying to help you. You can limit it to, in the next six months and pick out any fighter in the 10-15 range. I'll give you even money odds. But you won't take it because you know already, that Rico is better than the 10-15 fighters. And yet, despite knowing this, you're not prepared to rank him. So if you don't believe in the chances of success for the lower ranked fighters, then you received the information in the Usyk fight, that Rico is the real deal. Why not use that info?

Really. Answer me that. Why not use the information you got out of that fight? If you believe you got no information out of that fight, then lordy, what were you watching?

[tiny_acres]

The only issue in my opinion is people rating Torrez below vianelo who he beat just 1 year ago.
Doesn't make sense

[joshj909]

The only issue in my opinion is people rating Torrez below vianelo who he beat just 1 year ago.
Doesn't make sense

Just look at who they ranked Wardley below after this last fight...

[Cyclops]

The only issue in my opinion is people rating Torrez below vianelo who he beat just 1 year ago.
Doesn't make sense

Vianollo gets bumped out of my top 15 by placing Torrez at the bottom if it helps. He hung in there and wasn't stopped by Torres so I'd have him at 16. But I wouldn't have Villanello above him at 15 as Torres has his UD over him. Viavollo exits the top 15 for me. Torres can keep his spot inside because of that win, even though I don't think he's very good.

[Cyclops]

The only issue in my opinion is people rating Torrez below vianelo who he beat just 1 year ago.
Doesn't make sense

Just look at who they ranked Wardley below after this last fight...

Wardley beat Parker in a fight where they fought evenly until Parker was controversially stopped. In my own personal ranking, Wardley and Parker are both essentially the same fighter bar that stoppage. Wardley's hiding against Dubois (which I had a ringside seat for) drops him below Parker for me.

He squeezed by Parker, and got thoroughly destroyed by Dubois. Thus the ratings.

[gregregegg]

Usyk stays top.

Frank to 5

Torrez to 15

Rico stays out.

[gregregegg]

Can't believe the disrespect that Rico is getting. He gave Usyk the hardest fight that he's ever had and people refuse to rank him above never-will-be-more-than-a-gateway and I've-farking-never-fought-anyone-with-a-pulse fighter like Torrez Jr. What da fukkk.

Usyk stays at 1
Sanchez goes to 9 (above Huni)
Rico debuts at 10 (behind Sanchez and ahead of Huni)
Torrez Jr falls out of top 15

Torrez “never fought anyone with a pulse”… he has fought 2 of our top 15 list. He also has an Olympic medal… generally gotta fight a few people to do that.

I guess if you think Rico was gunna win then it’s fair to rank him. For me I think even if they let it go Usyk would of put it on him and stopped him round 12…

[Finkel]

Tricky one

I'll keep Usyk at #1 (can't exactly drop him, even if I thought he was saved by an awful, after-the-bell, stoppage). So I guess I have to move Verhoeven into somewhere to acknowledge what we all saw. Whether we think it's because Usyk is faded or not. He is still #1

Usyk #1
Sanchez #9
Torrez drops out
Verhoeven replaces him at #12.

[margaret thatcher]

Tricky one

I'll keep Usyk at #1 (can't exactly drop him, even if I thought he was saved by an awful, after-the-bell, stoppage). So I guess I have to move Verhoeven into somewhere to acknowledge what we all saw. Whether we think it's because Usyk is faded or not. He is still #1

Usyk #1
Sanchez #9
Torrez drops out
Verhoeven replaces him at #12.

i know what you mean but the stoppage didnt save him, he woulda been 2 points ahead on the cards with one round left, and while the stoppage was sus rico was still in a bad condition. highly unlikely rico in that state is catching up multi point deficit in 1 round

[881073]

Usyk 1
Rico 2
Sanchez 11
Torres 14

Not sure how this works, but no AJ at all? No Murat Gassiev at all?
I would rate Itauma a lot higher then most above him.

[Ruthless-RKO]

Usyk 1
Rico 2
Sanchez 11
Torres 14

Not sure how this works, but no AJ at all? No Murat Gassiev at all?
I would rate Itauma a lot higher then most above him.

Rico at #2? You gotta be kidding me.

Gassiev was in recently I think. Or not at all.

AJ not in due to activity. We didn’t rate his Paul fight.

[881073]

Usyk 1
Rico 2
Sanchez 11
Torres 14

Not sure how this works, but no AJ at all? No Murat Gassiev at all?
I would rate Itauma a lot higher then most above him.

Rico at #2? You gotta be kidding me.

Gassiev was in recently I think. Or not at all.

AJ not in due to activity. We didn’t rate his Paul fight.

You think Kabayel/Dubois/Parker/Wardley would beat Rico?
I don't think so and I know that RIco and Kabayel have sparred actually.
Rico can still improve a lot tactically, but body wise I rate Rico higher in every aspect then them all.
I would love to see any of such fights on the undercard of Usyk-Kabayel.

[gilgamesh]

I certainly wouldn't rate Rico in the Top 5, but back half of Top 10 seems fair and it would also be cool to see him box just about anybody next if he intends to continue to pursue this sport.