BS: Paulie Malignaggi turned heads at the weekend with his comments about the future of ProBox TV. He stated costs had been cut, a membership fee will be added, and he feared the end was near for ProBox TV. How accurate was he?
Garry Jonas: Firstly, let me be clear on this: Paulie meant well. He’s still one of the very best commentators there is in the industry and we’re proud to have him wearing ProBox colors and calling our fights.
But the truth is, he misspoke. He was a little dramatic. He didn’t relay the mission correctly.
I told him that the numbers, and the fans, make it clear that they love our fights and our live events but didn’t care so much for the talk shows. Four years ago, when we started this, our talk shows were doing 50-300,000 views. Since then, there are lots more talk shows out there, it’s a saturated market, and the numbers have gone down across the board. But for our fights, the numbers we attract have risen significantly.
So the conclusion to that should be common sense. Spend less on talk shows and more on the fights. Paulie won’t be doing the talk shows anymore, so he’s not going to be working five days a week, but the fighters will be getting paid more.
He said we’re cutting budgets, which is not the case. No, it’s a budget reallocation. By that I mean we’re taking money from areas of the business that fans were not so keen on and reinvesting it into areas of the business they appreciate the most, which is the fights.
As a businessman, I listen to the fans. I have to listen to what they’re telling me. The numbers tell me we need to be spending money on events, on the fights, on the action, on what matters, not on lengthy talk shows. It’s quality over quantity.
I hope this sets the record straight, it’s not budget cuts, it’s budget reallocation.
Proof of that is how much I’m spending on the July 18 show which is considerably more expensive than average. And our August 29 show, which will be a championship event featuring Lester Martinez and Najee Lopez, will be way more expensive than July. We have been raising the fighters’ purses from day one and they’re going to continue to go up.
We signed some prospects three or four years ago who have now flourished into contenders or champions. To keep them on this platform, and they all want to stay on this platform, we need to pay them more money, thus delivering bigger fights to the fans.
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BS: What is your response to the suggestion that ProBox TV will close at the end of the year if the financial situation doesn’t improve?
GJ: Let me tell you exactly what I told Paulie, who’s an emotional guy. I'm a practical businessman.
These conversations always make Paulie nervous because he loves ProBox TV. He wants it to succeed. So, whenever we start talking about membership and the future, he gets a little anxious.
I said, Paulie, let's run some scenarios.
If we get 500,000 paid members, we're a fully-fledged player in championship boxing. We're in the game. We're staring eye-to-eye with DAZN while charging fans a fraction of what they're charging. At that point we're doing exactly what we set out to do and we’re here forever more.
Now let's run another scenario.
What if we get 100,000 members?
Well, maybe we're not doing championship boxing at that level, but we'll run the contender series for many years to come. That's still a win. That's still a very healthy business. That's still serving boxing fans.
Then I said, Paulie, what if we only get 25,000 subscribers?
And his eyes got big.
I said, ‘Then I'm taking my ball and going home.’ And I wasn't being dramatic. I'd view that as a referendum from the fans. I'd view it as them saying, ‘Garry, we appreciate what you've done, but we're satisfied with DAZN. We're satisfied with Paramount. We don't value this enough to support it.’
And if that's what the fans tell me, that's okay. I don't get mad. I don't throw a tantrum. I don't blame anybody.
I'd just take my ball and go home. I'd grab my popcorn, sit on the couch, and watch DAZN and Paramount duke it out.
We have events planned until the end of the year. So between now and then I’m pretty confident we can convince enough fans that what’re doing here is worth it.
Now, when Paulie repeated that conversation, he repeated it the way Paulie heard it. And because Paulie loves ProBox TV, it came across with a little more anxiety than I intended.
But Paulie didn't lie. He just didn't say it the way I said it.
The important thing here is that people are treating this as some kind of emergency measure or last stand. It isn't.
We've been working toward this for four years. We always knew there would come a day when we'd ask the fans a simple question: ‘Do you want this?’
If they say yes, we'll build something significant. If they say no, they've made their choice and I'll respect it.
That's very different from saying ProBox TV is on the verge of collapse. What I'm saying is that now it’s time for the fans to decide. And honestly? I think that’s exactly how it should be.
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BS: Why introduce a paid membership model now?
GJ: Because this was always where we were heading. People are acting as though we woke up one morning and said, ‘Hey, let's charge five bucks.’
No. We've been working toward this for four years. The entire mission from day one was to prove value first. That doesn’t always happen in this sport. It demands payment and hopes the fans will come.
But how do you ask somebody to pay for something they've never experienced? How do you create a new fan if the first thing you're asking them to do is spend 30, 40, 50 dollars? People need to understand the value before they make a buying decision. That's why we spent four years giving ProBox TV away. We wanted people to watch it. Understand it. Appreciate it. Respect it.
Then, when the time came to ask them for support, we wanted that support to be affordable. And that's where the five dollars comes in.
For every 50- or 60-year-old reading this, five dollars sounds ridiculously cheap. But do you know what five dollars is to a 25-year-old? It's a cup of coffee. That's it. That's all we're asking for.
One of the things we've always believed is that boxing became overpriced. The sport keeps making the same mistakes. Networks charge more. Pay-per-views charge more. The barriers to entry get higher and higher. And then everybody wonders why it's so difficult to attract new fans.
ProBox TV was built around the opposite idea. Make boxing accessible. Make boxing affordable. Give people a reason to become fans before you ask them to become customers.
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BS: Realistically, where do you think the membership numbers will actually land?
GJ: The best answer I can give you is that I'm bullish. I'm not going to sit here and predict a number. But I am optimistic.
And the reason I'm optimistic is because I look at the numbers every day.
January to April this year we had two million unique viewers on English-speaking YouTube alone. Now that's interesting, right? But what's really interesting is that approximately 730,000 of those viewers were recurring viewers. Not casual viewers. Not people who stumbled onto a clip once.
It’s people who keep coming back. People who know what ProBox TV is. People who actively engage with our content.
If I've got 730,000 engaged recurring viewers, I feel strongly that we can convert a meaningful percentage of those people into subscribers happy to pay for what we do.
Why?
Because boxing fans are already accustomed to paying for content. And when they hear the price is five dollars, I think a lot of them are going to have the same reaction: Wait, that’s it?
One of the things that gives me confidence is that the fans have consistently validated the things we've been doing. They've validated the fights. They've validated the roster. They've validated the content.
The question now is whether they'll validate the membership model.
And that's the vote. That's the referendum. And unlike a lot of people in boxing, I'm prepared to live with the result.
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BS: What can fans expect from their five-dollars-a-month investment?
GJ: Before I explain this, I want to set the record straight. I want to explain who and what they will be investing in. We are not a promoter; we’ve always been a boxing channel. We operate as a promotional entity for one simple reason: To retain autonomy. We have never wanted to be in a situation where the rug can be pulled from underneath our feet.
But please understand clearly what our product and our mission is: To give the fans more competitive matchups; There are no witness protection programs here at ProBox TV; We provide entertainment; We provide action; Runners, holders, and spoilers need not apply.
We give the fans real commentary, no bullshit, no insulting of intelligence, we call it as it is. We feel earning your respect for that credibility is far more important than blowing smoke up your ass. Our productions are fast paced; 10 minutes after one fight has finished the next one will begin. You don’t need nor appreciate the filler, you want more fighting. We do that every single time and the numbers I mentioned earlier prove we are on to something.
You can expect extensive coverage in the build-up to events. You will be invited behind the scenes of negotiations, into dressing rooms, you will see how the sausage gets made. As a member of ProBox TV you will be asked for your opinion. What fights do you want to see? What content do you want? And I will be listening.
What’s also important to mention is Boxing Scene. Now we’re not going to put that behind a paywall but your subscription fee will also support that side of the business. We will continue to be the trusted source in news and speak the truth rather than cater to the powers that be. Because to us, the fans are more important than the major promoters, the sanctioning bodies, and the TV networks.
And the more people that join us, the more you will get. I am not here trying to pay my bills. This is a passion project, I love what I do, and I love this sport. The money we get will be reinvested into what we do for you because we know you guys love it too.
So, in answer to your question, what does a member get?
They get 50/50 fights. They get Boxing Scene. They get supporting content. They get Chris Algieri. They get Robert Garcia. They get Paulie Malignaggi. They get me. They get analysis. They get previews. They get contender-level boxing. They get an invite to the board room and the negotiating table. They get to see it all.
And they get a roster that, frankly, I'm incredibly proud of.
One of the biggest accomplishments we've had over the last four years is building that roster.
When I look at some of the fighters we've assembled, I honestly think we had no business pulling it off. When you look at the resources some of our competitors have compared to us, I don't know how we managed to build the stable we've built.
But we did. And those fighters want to stay. That's something fans should understand. The fighters want to achieve their ambitions here, they want to earn the big purses here, they want to win championships here, and that’s now what I plan to be able to give them at ProBox TV.
At the end of the day, every single one of these decisions came from listening to boxing fans.
I often tell young entrepreneurs a story. Someone once told me, ‘Garry, you’re lucky, you don’t have a boss.’
I said, ‘That's not true. I answer to the most demanding boss of them all’. He asked who.
‘Boxing fans,’ I replied. I work for them. I answer to them. That's why you see me ringside, I’m not in the ring posing for the camera. That's why I'm studying the numbers, reading the comments at two o’clock in the morning. I’m listening to my boss.’
Everything we've done over the last four years has been the result of listening to boxing fans and trying to build something that serves them.
Now they get a vote. That's really what this membership launch is. It's a vote.
And if they support it, we'll keep building, and this end that people are fearing becomes just the start.
