1988 Mike Tyson vs 2011 Wladimir Klitschko - who would win this match ?

[gilgamesh]

Sanders and Brewtser were indeed plenty for him.

Sanders was a better fighter than Buster Douglas from what I've seen.

[keithmoonhangover]

Tyson's best wins were Spinks and Holmes. Wlad has nothing resembling wins that good.

He also never lost to somebody as sh*tty as Danny Williams or Kevin McBride even when he was older than Mike was when he couldn't beat those guys. In fact at the same age when Mike was too old and past it to beat those 2, Wladimir was still the Heavyweight Champion of the World.

And before you blame it on wear and tear, Wladimir also had more fights than Mike both as a Pro and Amateur.

So, who had the better wins?

[gilgamesh]

Tyson's best wins were Spinks and Holmes. Wlad has nothing resembling wins that good.

He also never lost to somebody as sh*tty as Danny Williams or Kevin McBride even when he was older than Mike was when he couldn't beat those guys. In fact at the same age when Mike was too old and past it to beat those 2, Wladimir was still the Heavyweight Champion of the World.

And before you blame it on wear and tear, Wladimir also had more fights than Mike both as a Pro and Amateur.

So, who had the better wins?

Mike's best wins are better than Wlad's. Wlad had the consistency that Mike lacked. Mike had the explosiveness that Wlad often lacked.

[gilgamesh]

Mike has better hooks and uppercuts.

Mike has better body punching.

Mike has a better chin.

Both had questionable stamina when pushed.

Wladimir had a better jab and right hand.

Wladimir never failed to come in tip top shape year in and year out.

Wladimir won more fights by KO than Mike won period. And he won twice as many Championship fights.

They both got big marks.

EDIT: I might be off on the amount Wlad won by KO, but still it was a lot

[Cojimar 1946]

No he would not have been a cruiserweight. He normally weighed well over 200 pounds. Beat a ton of guys that were well over 200 pounds and unlike Klitschko's opponents, had some had a lot of ability.

Cruiserweights enter the ring well over 200 pounds after early weigh ins. Some are 220 plus.

Realistically Tyson would be fighting at cruiserweight. What makes you think he would want to fight guys 40, 50, 60, 70 pounds heavier?

[keithmoonhangover]

No he would not have been a cruiserweight. He normally weighed well over 200 pounds. Beat a ton of guys that were well over 200 pounds and unlike Klitschko's opponents, had some had a lot of ability.

Cruiserweights enter the ring well over 200 pounds after early weigh ins. Some are 220 plus.

Realistically Tyson would be fighting at cruiserweight. What makes you think he would want to fight guys 40, 50, 60, 70 pounds heavier?

Why isn't Usyk still at Cruiser?

[gilgamesh]

No he would not have been a cruiserweight. He normally weighed well over 200 pounds. Beat a ton of guys that were well over 200 pounds and unlike Klitschko's opponents, had some had a lot of ability.

Cruiserweights enter the ring well over 200 pounds after early weigh ins. Some are 220 plus.

Realistically Tyson would be fighting at cruiserweight. What makes you think he would want to fight guys 40, 50, 60, 70 pounds heavier?

The Cruiserweight division existed when Tyson fought. It was never something he or his team considered. If you had a talent like Tyson today, I don't think it's something you'd bother with today either.

Even guys like Bert Cooper and Leon Spinks only tried Cruiserweight whenever the Heavyweight division was a proven bust for them.

[Ambling Alp II]

No he would not have been a cruiserweight. He normally weighed well over 200 pounds. Beat a ton of guys that were well over 200 pounds and unlike Klitschko's opponents, had some had a lot of ability.

Cruiserweights enter the ring well over 200 pounds after early weigh ins. Some are 220 plus.

Realistically Tyson would be fighting at cruiserweight. What makes you think he would want to fight guys 40, 50, 60, 70 pounds heavier?

Because he could and did beat guys much heavier than him. At a certain point, weight stops being an advantage. At a later pint, it becomes a disadvantage. And made a lot more money than he ever would have made a cruiserweight. Would have been incredibly stupid for him for to fight at cruiserweight.

[gilgamesh]

Even the guys that would drop down to Cruiserweight in pursuit of a title would often wind up going back to Heavy because as you say Cruiserweight just isn't where the money is.

The gap in pay for a big Cruiserweight fight or a big Heavyweight fight is massive I'm sure.

[Cojimar 1946]

If Carl Williams, Bonecrusher Smith and Tony Tubbs count as quality wins for Mike, and I'd say it's fair to say they do.

Then it's also fair to say Wladimir has more than just Chris Byrd 2x. He also has Povetkin, Haye, Samuel Peter, Ruslan Chagaev and Brewster in their rematch.

And they both have a fair amount of Fringe contenders on their records as well. Their standard of competition is definitely comparable, though Wlad didn't have anyone quite as fierce as Holyfield or Lewis to have to deal with.

The Lewis fight isn't held against Tyson generally though due to him being well past it.

[gilgamesh]

If Carl Williams, Bonecrusher Smith and Tony Tubbs count as quality wins for Mike, and I'd say it's fair to say they do.

Then it's also fair to say Wladimir has more than just Chris Byrd 2x. He also has Povetkin, Haye, Samuel Peter, Ruslan Chagaev and Brewster in their rematch.

And they both have a fair amount of Fringe contenders on their records as well. Their standard of competition is definitely comparable, though Wlad didn't have anyone quite as fierce as Holyfield or Lewis to have to deal with.

The Lewis fight isn't held against Tyson generally though due to him being well past it.

I didn't necessarily hold it against him, but I don't think being past it against a guy that's the same age as you is really an excuse.

[Cojimar 1946]

Tyson's best wins were Spinks and Holmes. Wlad has nothing resembling wins that good.

Nope. Wlad has several wins better than Spinks and old Holmes.

Povetkin and Byrd most obviously

[Cojimar 1946]

No he would not have been a cruiserweight. He normally weighed well over 200 pounds. Beat a ton of guys that were well over 200 pounds and unlike Klitschko's opponents, had some had a lot of ability.

Cruiserweights enter the ring well over 200 pounds after early weigh ins. Some are 220 plus.

Realistically Tyson would be fighting at cruiserweight. What makes you think he would want to fight guys 40, 50, 60, 70 pounds heavier?

Because he could and did beat guys much heavier than him. At a certain point, weight stops being an advantage. At a later pint, it becomes a disadvantage. And made a lot more money than he ever would have made a cruiserweight. Would have been incredibly stupid for him for to fight at cruiserweight.

He was fighting guys roughly his own size. Not 40, 50 pounds heavier

There hasn't been a lineal champ Tysons height in 35 plus years. That suggests its probably no longer possible

[Ambling Alp II]

He beat a ton of guys in the 220s, 230s and more. Are you under the impression that the heavier the better? Has Usyk being the top guy not showed you anything?
How many lineal champions were there that that were as short as Tyson in the 35 years before Tyson? 2?
So what. It's how good you are that matters. Tyson beat several fighters much taller than him.

[Ambling Alp II]

Tyson's best wins were Spinks and Holmes. Wlad has nothing resembling wins that good.

Nope. Wlad has several wins better than Spinks and old Holmes.

Povetkin and Byrd most obviously

Old Holmes beat Mercer 4 years after Tyson destroyed him. Holmes almost beat McCall 7 years after Tyson beat him. Spinks looked good in his hw fights. These aren't even the best he beat. Tucker, Smith, Ruddock, Thomas, Bruno etc. Not great, but capable fighters.

Klitschko beat Chris Byrd, a good defensive fighter with zero power. That's the best. Lets stop pretending anyone else Klitschko beat was really good. It's pretty desperate when you have to bring up Povetkin. (Cue the win/loss records and WBS titles)

Oh, and he has the three embarrassing losses against guy much, much worse than Holyfield and Douglas. Near his prime, Tyson wasn't getting embarrassed by non-contenders like Klitschko was.

[gilgamesh]

Tyson's best wins were Spinks and Holmes. Wlad has nothing resembling wins that good.

Nope. Wlad has several wins better than Spinks and old Holmes.

Povetkin and Byrd most obviously

Old Holmes beat Mercer 4 years after Tyson destroyed him. Holmes almost beat McCall 7 years after Tyson beat him. Spinks looked good in his hw fights. These aren't even the best he beat. Tucker, Smith, Ruddock, Thomas, Bruno etc. Not great, but capable fighters.

Klitschko beat Chris Byrd, a good defensive fighter with zero power. That's the best. Lets stop pretending anyone else Klitschko beat was really good. It's pretty desperate when you have to bring up Povetkin. (Cue the win/loss records and WBS titles)

Oh, and he has the three embarrassing losses against guy much, much worse than Holyfield and Douglas. Near his prime, Tyson wasn't getting embarrassed by non-contenders like Klitschko was.

The biggest upset in the history of sports happened to Mike Tyson.

[Cojimar 1946]

He beat a ton of guys in the 220s, 230s and more. Are you under the impression that the heavier the better? Has Usyk being the top guy not showed you anything?
How many lineal champions were there that that were as short as Tyson in the 35 years before Tyson? 2?
So what. It's how good you are that matters. Tyson beat several fighters much taller than him.

Pre Tyson there were numerous champs under 6 feet
Ezzard Charles 5'11 1/2 (1949-1951)
Rocky Marciano 5'10 1/2 (1952-1956)
Floyd Patterson 5'11 1/2 (1956-1959, 1960-1962)
Joe Frazier 5'11 (1970-1973)

Were all within 35 years of Tyson beating Berbick

[Ambling Alp II]

Well Tyson was shorter than 5'11. Frazier was probably a little taller.
Charles and Patterson were both 6 feet tall.
He might have been taller than Marciano.

Doesn't matter. Tyson beat a ton of guys who were a lot taller than him. Scales and tape measures don't win fights.

Never lost to a non-contender during his prime. Lost to Douglas, a good fighter who fought a great fight, and to Holyfield, obviously a great fighter. Klitschko did, to 3 different non-contenders.

[gilgamesh]

Well Tyson was shorter than 5'11. Frazier was probably a little taller.
Charles and Patterson were both 6 feet tall.
He might have been taller than Marciano.

Doesn't matter. Tyson beat a ton of guys who were a lot taller than him. Scales and tape measures don't win fights.

Never lost to a non-contender during his prime. Lost to Douglas, a good fighter who fought a great fight, and to Holyfield, obviously a great fighter. Klitschko did, to 3 different non-contenders.

Sanders was at least as good as Douglas. Better from what I can tell.

It's also not embarrassingto point out that Povetkin is one of Wladimir's best wins. Povetkin was a very good fighter and beat a great number of high rated contenders of his time.

I don't think he ever actually held a World Title, he always had the WBA Regular belt which means he didn't have a credible World title at any point. Nevertheless he had a good career, and would have to be one of the better Russian Heavyweights that has ever come along.

[keithmoonhangover]

Tyson's best wins were Spinks and Holmes. Wlad has nothing resembling wins that good.

Nope. Wlad has several wins better than Spinks and old Holmes.

Povetkin and Byrd most obviously

Spinks was the undefeated lineal world champion, with back-to-back wins over the clear #1 heavyweight in the division. Holmes was still beating Ray Mercer years later and both he and Spinks were first ballot Hall of Famers.

How about Povetkin and Byrd? Are they in the IBHOF? Were they lineal champions?

[Controversial]

Why is this not in the fantasy fight forum?