Mike Tyson vrs Tim Witherspoon (1988)

[gilgamesh]

If anyone can give us an impartial opinion on Tim Witherspoon it's a poster named Witherspoon.

I'm one of Tim's biggest fans and supported his YouTube channel, interacted with him on livestreams. He would have been really up against it versus prime Mike Tyson.

Watching Iron Mike crush Timmy's pals Thomas, Bonecrusher, Tubbs, and Holmes doesn't inspire confidence.

He would've been up against, against any Mike. Only time that Tim might have a shot at Mike is 1985 or early 1986. Anytime Mike is at or near Championship level, he's beyond anything Tim ever was on the best day of his life.

[Cojimar 1946]

Of course not. Tyson looked very beatable vs Douglas and Ruddock

I might even favor Witherspoon over those versions. And of course he has a good shot in 1996

[keithmoonhangover]

Of course not. Tyson looked very beatable vs Douglas and Ruddock

Did Tyson get blasted out in a round by Bonecrusher Smith?

[Riddick Bowie]

Of course not. Tyson looked very beatable vs Douglas and Ruddock

I might even favor Witherspoon over those versions. And of course he has a good shot in 1996

Okay, let's use Cojimar tactics against Cojimar.

When Tyson was fighting Douglas and Ruddock, Witherspoon was scraping an SD over Jose Ribalta and losing to Bigfoot Martin.

[Ezzard]

I don't see Witherspoon getting crushed. He would be motivated (Surely) and had a lot of the tools to get the win.

I don't think he would win. But I can imagine he would have pushed Mike harder than anyone Tyson beat up until he lost to Douglas.

[Riddick Bowie]

I don't see Witherspoon getting crushed. He would be motivated (Surely) and had a lot of the tools to get the win.

I don't think he would win. But I can imagine he would have pushed Mike harder than anyone Tyson beat up until he lost to Douglas.

Spoon had the tools to win in literally all of his losses. That's the problem.

The version of him required to hang with Mike Tyson is the imaginary one we never saw where he's passionate and fights like hell and lays it all on the line. In other words the Holmes performance plus a bit more.

Tyson was all business which is why he steam rolled Spoon's pals Bonecrusher, Holmes, Tubbs, Thomas, C. Williams, Bruno et al

[Cojimar 1946]

Of course not. Tyson looked very beatable vs Douglas and Ruddock

Did Tyson get blasted out in a round by Bonecrusher Smith?

Too bad that's not the version of Witherspoon he's up against

[Cojimar 1946]

Of course not. Tyson looked very beatable vs Douglas and Ruddock

I might even favor Witherspoon over those versions. And of course he has a good shot in 1996

Okay, let's use Cojimar tactics against Cojimar.

When Tyson was fighting Douglas and Ruddock, Witherspoon was scraping an SD over Jose Ribalta and losing to Bigfoot Martin.

The Martin loss was in 92, Tyson was fighting Douglas and Ruddock in 90, 91

[keithmoonhangover]

Of course not. Tyson looked very beatable vs Douglas and Ruddock

Did Tyson get blasted out in a round by Bonecrusher Smith?

Too bad that's not the version of Witherspoon he's up against

Not the version? You've been talking about the Tyson from Douglas and Ruddock. So to quote you....... Too bad that's not the version of Tyson he's up against.

[Riddick Bowie]

Ohhh the Bigfoot loss was 92 rather than 91. Well that makes all the difference.

Okay. In 91 Witherspoon was eking out a 12 rd SD over Carl Williams, 2 years after Tyson blitzed Williams in 1.

Cojimar, the game's up mate. You argue dishonestly and you can't wriggle out of it this time.

[Cojimar 1946]

Ohhh the Bigfoot loss was 92 rather than 91. Well that makes all the difference.

Okay. In 91 Witherspoon was eking out a 12 rd SD over Carl Williams, 2 years after Tyson blitzed Williams in 1.

Cojimar, the game's up mate. You argue dishonestly and you can't wriggle out of it this time.

Why would you expect him to blitz out guys when he wasn't a power puncher? That seems like a silly argument.

Witherspoon has a chance due to having many of the same attributes as Holyfield who also wasn't a power puncher.

Surely you remember Tyson blitzing Stewart and Holmes and Holyfield failing to do so

[Cojimar 1946]

Did Tyson get blasted out in a round by Bonecrusher Smith?

Too bad that's not the version of Witherspoon he's up against

Not the version? You've been talking about the Tyson from Douglas and Ruddock. So to quote you....... Too bad that's not the version of Tyson he's up against.

Tyson was physically in good shape for those fights I don't think there was anything wrong with him just opponents he didn't match up well with

[keithmoonhangover]

Too bad that's not the version of Witherspoon he's up against

Not the version? You've been talking about the Tyson from Douglas and Ruddock. So to quote you....... Too bad that's not the version of Tyson he's up against.

Tyson was physically in good shape for those fights I don't think there was anything wrong with him just opponents he didn't match up well with

But you're talking about '88 Tyson aren't you?

[Cojimar 1946]

Not the version? You've been talking about the Tyson from Douglas and Ruddock. So to quote you....... Too bad that's not the version of Tyson he's up against.

Tyson was physically in good shape for those fights I don't think there was anything wrong with him just opponents he didn't match up well with

But you're talking about '88 Tyson aren't you?

I would say Tyson's peak was roughly Berbick to prison.

I don't think 88 Tyson was significantly different. He had excellent performances both before and afterwards

[keithmoonhangover]

Tyson was physically in good shape for those fights I don't think there was anything wrong with him just opponents he didn't match up well with

But you're talking about '88 Tyson aren't you?

I would say Tyson's peak was roughly Berbick to prison.

I don't think 88 Tyson was significantly different. He had excellent performances both before and afterwards

So are you talking about '88 Tyson or not? I mean, the title says 1988.

[Cojimar 1946]

But you're talking about '88 Tyson aren't you?

I would say Tyson's peak was roughly Berbick to prison.

I don't think 88 Tyson was significantly different. He had excellent performances both before and afterwards

So are you talking about '88 Tyson or not? I mean, the title says 1988.

Sure in 1988 I think Witherspoon has a good chance if he shows up in shape.

Tysons fights at other points in time are potentially relevant to this fight though which is why I brought them up

[Riddick Bowie]

Ohhh the Bigfoot loss was 92 rather than 91. Well that makes all the difference.

Okay. In 91 Witherspoon was eking out a 12 rd SD over Carl Williams, 2 years after Tyson blitzed Williams in 1.

Cojimar, the game's up mate. You argue dishonestly and you can't wriggle out of it this time.

Why would you expect him to blitz out guys when he wasn't a power puncher? That seems like a silly argument.

Witherspoon has a chance due to having many of the same attributes as Holyfield who also wasn't a power puncher.

Surely you remember Tyson blitzing Stewart and Holmes and Holyfield failing to do so

Aaaaand we're back to pretending not to understand points.

It's one thing to utterly dominate guys like Holyfield did Stewart and Holmes; but when Spoon's losing to, or having long gruelling fights with, a long list of guys Tyson destroyed, it becomes apparent he's not on the same level.

Tubbs, Holmes, Ribalta, C. Williams, Bruno, Bonecrusher, Thomas, Ratliff... I'd normally ignore Golota and Nielsen because Spoon was old, but because this is Cojimar who pretends not to understand the passage of time (when it suits him) I'm throwing them in too.

[Caractacus]

Kevin Rooney would still have been around to train Tyson for it.

[Cojimar 1946]

Ohhh the Bigfoot loss was 92 rather than 91. Well that makes all the difference.

Okay. In 91 Witherspoon was eking out a 12 rd SD over Carl Williams, 2 years after Tyson blitzed Williams in 1.

Cojimar, the game's up mate. You argue dishonestly and you can't wriggle out of it this time.

Why would you expect him to blitz out guys when he wasn't a power puncher? That seems like a silly argument.

Witherspoon has a chance due to having many of the same attributes as Holyfield who also wasn't a power puncher.

Surely you remember Tyson blitzing Stewart and Holmes and Holyfield failing to do so

Aaaaand we're back to pretending not to understand points.

It's one thing to utterly dominate guys like Holyfield did Stewart and Holmes; but when Spoon's losing to, or having long gruelling fights with, a long list of guys Tyson destroyed, it becomes apparent he's not on the same level.

Tubbs, Holmes, Ribalta, C. Williams, Bruno, Bonecrusher, Thomas, Ratliff... I'd normally ignore Golota and Nielsen because Spoon was old, but because this is Cojimar who pretends not to understand the passage of time (when it suits him) I'm throwing them in too.

Hollyfield didn't come close to dominating Holmes and Witherspoon comfortably beat Tubbs, Ribalta etc.
Had they never fought you could easily argue Holyfield wasn't on Tysons level too.

I think an in shape Witherspoon is around the same level as Holyfield

[Controversial]

Tyson would've knocked Witherspoon out In a one sided beat down within 5 rounds I think.

Yeah I agree. Tim was skilled but was inconsistent and when he looked good they weren't against fighters as fast and powerful as Tyson.

[Riddick Bowie]

Why would you expect him to blitz out guys when he wasn't a power puncher? That seems like a silly argument.

Witherspoon has a chance due to having many of the same attributes as Holyfield who also wasn't a power puncher.

Surely you remember Tyson blitzing Stewart and Holmes and Holyfield failing to do so

Aaaaand we're back to pretending not to understand points.

It's one thing to utterly dominate guys like Holyfield did Stewart and Holmes; but when Spoon's losing to, or having long gruelling fights with, a long list of guys Tyson destroyed, it becomes apparent he's not on the same level.

Tubbs, Holmes, Ribalta, C. Williams, Bruno, Bonecrusher, Thomas, Ratliff... I'd normally ignore Golota and Nielsen because Spoon was old, but because this is Cojimar who pretends not to understand the passage of time (when it suits him) I'm throwing them in too.

Hollyfield didn't come close to dominating Holmes and Witherspoon comfortably beat Tubbs, Ribalta etc.
Had they never fought you could easily argue Holyfield wasn't on Tysons level too.

I think an in shape Witherspoon is around the same level as Holyfield

So Witherspoon getting SDs and MDs over Tubbs, Ribalta, Williams etc is "winning comfortably", while Holyfield's UD over Holmes, which not one single report from the time says was close, isn't. Homes literally threw up when the last bell sounded.

Witherspoon had 25 years to turn up in shape, he couldn't be bothered. You're in a fantasy land.

[Cojimar 1946]

Aaaaand we're back to pretending not to understand points.

It's one thing to utterly dominate guys like Holyfield did Stewart and Holmes; but when Spoon's losing to, or having long gruelling fights with, a long list of guys Tyson destroyed, it becomes apparent he's not on the same level.

Tubbs, Holmes, Ribalta, C. Williams, Bruno, Bonecrusher, Thomas, Ratliff... I'd normally ignore Golota and Nielsen because Spoon was old, but because this is Cojimar who pretends not to understand the passage of time (when it suits him) I'm throwing them in too.

Hollyfield didn't come close to dominating Holmes and Witherspoon comfortably beat Tubbs, Ribalta etc.
Had they never fought you could easily argue Holyfield wasn't on Tysons level too.

I think an in shape Witherspoon is around the same level as Holyfield

So Witherspoon getting SDs and MDs over Tubbs, Ribalta, Williams etc is "winning comfortably", while Holyfield's UD over Holmes, which not one single report from the time says was close, isn't. Homes literally threw up when the last bell sounded.

Witherspoon had 25 years to turn up in shape, he couldn't be bothered. You're in a fantasy land.

Most people had him easily beating Tubbs and Ribalta. These are just cases of one judge turning in a terrible scorecard.

The general consensus is Holmes won 4 rounds which is how two of the three judges scored it

[keithmoonhangover]

I would say Tyson's peak was roughly Berbick to prison.

I don't think 88 Tyson was significantly different. He had excellent performances both before and afterwards

So are you talking about '88 Tyson or not? I mean, the title says 1988.

Sure in 1988 I think Witherspoon has a good chance if he shows up in shape.

Tysons fights at other points in time are potentially relevant to this fight though which is why I brought them up

So you want to take into account Tyson's fights outside of '88, but not Witherspoon's obliteration by Bonecrusher?

[Cojimar 1946]

So are you talking about '88 Tyson or not? I mean, the title says 1988.

Sure in 1988 I think Witherspoon has a good chance if he shows up in shape.

Tysons fights at other points in time are potentially relevant to this fight though which is why I brought them up

So you want to take into account Tyson's fights outside of '88, but not Witherspoon's obliteration by Bonecrusher?

Sure he was technically prime for that fight if badly out of shape so you can count it. He beat Smith comfortably the other time they fought though winning virtually every round.

[keithmoonhangover]

Sure in 1988 I think Witherspoon has a good chance if he shows up in shape.

Tysons fights at other points in time are potentially relevant to this fight though which is why I brought them up

So you want to take into account Tyson's fights outside of '88, but not Witherspoon's obliteration by Bonecrusher?

Sure he was technically prime for that fight if badly out of shape so you can count it. He beat Smith comfortably the other time they fought though winning virtually every round.

You're not making yourself clear. Are we judging Tyson and as they were in 1988? Or not?