Evander Holyfield Claims That He Was Better Than Muhammad Ali: Does He Got a Point?

[elmersalsa]

The great Evander Holyfield said that he indeed is the greatest heavyweight champion ever. He said many times out of his own mouth that he was better than Muhammad Ali because he won the Heavyweight World Crown 4 times and Ali won it 3 times.

In where does Holyfield has a valid point to say that he's the greatest at heavyweight?

Your opinions please.

[gilgamesh]

He doesn't. You could argue he was the most consistently entertaining to watch of all Heavyweight Champions maybe, but that's it.

[goose 5]

Holyfield also believes each generation of fighters is superior to any previous one.

[gilgamesh]

Which Scientifically may have some merit in terms of athleticism and all that, but I think some of the more subtle tricks of the trade or nuances of the game have been lost to time as the trainers who taught them have died out with nobody to carry on their philosophies.

[Nile4000]

More like he got a joint. No way.

[tiny_acres]

I do not get Holyfield. He was a very food heavy. No one denies that.
But his record at heavyweight was some this like 22-10-2. Biggest win was over Bowe after the fanman entered the ring. I still can not understanf how the fight was not stopped and it goes to a no contest. Weirdest win and arguably Holyfields best win.
I list him somewhere around 10-15 all time. I know others rate him higher. It is all speculative. But I do not see anyone calling him Number 1 all time besides himself. It just doesn't make sense

[keithmoonhangover]

No chance. I await some buffoon using the 'every generation is better than the previous one' argument.

[gilgamesh]

No chance. I await some buffoon using the 'every generation is better than the previous one' argument.

Which is definitely a stupid one. Every generation has it's greats, but fighters are individuals and are all to be taken on a case by case basis.

Don't know how anyone could look at today's Middleweight division for instance and say "These are the best Middleweights there's ever been"

I think damn near every era of Middleweights has the current one beat

[tiny_acres]

No chance. I await some buffoon using the 'every generation is better than the previous one' argument.

Which is definitely a stupid one. Every generation has it's greats, but fighters are individuals and are all to be taken on a case by case basis.

Don't know how anyone could look at today's Middleweight division for instance and say "These are the best Middleweights there's ever been"

I think damn near every era of Middleweights has the current one beat

I'm old as hell and can say I have never seen a worse bunch of middles ever.
The division is void of any talent

[Expug]

There was a time when the middleweight champ was a household name.
I don’t even know who it is.
There are probably about 15 of them right?

[Caractacus]

Rocky Graziano-everyone knew who he was when I was growing up
even tho he was long retired-he was a legend !

[Ketchel]

Holyfield had trouble with an old Foreman and Holmes. What would they have done with him in their prime never mind Ali. No way he would have been top dog in the 70s.

[goose 5]

A prime Holmes would have dominated Holyfield , imo. I'd take Holyfield over any version of Foreman, however.

[gilgamesh]

A prime Holmes would have dominated Holyfield , imo. I'd take Holyfield over any version of Foreman, however.

I think he'd have had a tough night with Sonny Liston as well. Holyfield vs Ron Lyle, Earnie Shavers, Ron Lyle or Joe Frazier are all salivating matchups as well. Difficult to imagine he comes out of all those without taking some L's.

However Ali would've had a tough night with Riddick Bowe and Lennox Lewis as well to be fair. I don't think there's too many men that ever lived that wouldn't.

[Ambling Alp II]

Holyfield was obviously not as good as Ali or Louis for that matter. But after them, Holyfield along with a few other guys (Holmes, Foreman, Lewis, Frazier, and Johnson) are debatable. They all had their own strengths. When you compare their big wins/great performances against their losses/not so great performances, they are relatively close.

With Holyfield, people constantly overlook his great performances before winning the heavyweight title (Dokes, Thomas etc.) and overemphasize fights when he was clearly past his best.

With Ali, people often overlook when he was actually at his best during his prime in the mid-1960s. Nobody was close to that. Past his best in the 1970s, he had all those great fights against great competition, and people naturally want to talk about those fights.

[gilgamesh]

I figure the reason why Holyfield makes the Top 10 for the people he makes it for is because they are taking in the whole picture of his career. A couple of his losses are of a questionable nature, and like you say his absolute Heavyweight Prime seemed to have been from about 1989 to 1993. He was a fighting machine in those years for sure.

The Holyfield-Dokes fight is probably the absolute best Heavyweight bout of the 1980's for my money, and Holyfield of course looks great against Pinklon Thomas, and Alex Stewart and all those guys he fought during this prime.

Even in some of his later bouts it's not as bad as it seems. I feel like he clearly beat Valuev for instance so that's definitely a BS loss. I thought the loss to Moorer was razor thin, and I personally had it for Holyfield by 1 point, but Moorer did make it close enough that I can't raise a fuss about it.

In terms of level of competition faced Holyfield is 2nd only to Ali, but he is 2nd to Ali. Holyfield always fought like a Champion even in defeat. He very rarely lost in lopsided fashion, and those types of losses came later in his career.

[hhaehre]

Holyfield was an exiting guy to watch, but unlike Ali (and others) he was never a dominant heavyweight champion over any length of time.

[gilgamesh]

Nobody really was in the 90's. Lennox Lewis comes closest. His longest uninterrupted reign was a little over 4 years before getting upset by Rahman.

George Foreman held the Lineal title 3 years after defeating Moorer.

Bowe's reign only lasted a year.

I believe Holyfield's 3rd reign was his longest. Altogether he was Heavyweight Champion for about 6 years over his 4 reigns.

All the other titlists in the 90's came and went in a flash, and never held their titles particularly long.

[SteveO]

No.
Anyway, Ali is the only heavyweight to win the lineal title 3 times.
Ali won the WBA heavyweight title 4 times including the Terrell fight.

[bwu]

Part of what makes great athletes great is their belief in themselves. It wouldn't be a surprise to hear any of the top names say that they would've beaten another of the all-time best.

Holyfield is entitled to his point of view. But if his argument is based on him having four reigns as opposed to Ali having three reigns, I don't think it's a very strong point. I'll state and re-state the obvious. Ali won three lineal championships. Evander won two lineal championships. Ali lost one lineal title. Holyfield lost two lineal championships and two title reigns.

Evander is an all-time great in two weight divisions. That's what we need to remember.