BoxRec Forum HW Top 15 ranking - Fury / Joshua / Sirenko

[Ruthless-RKO]

Realistically, an algorithm would be better than any subjective opinion. It's just a shame that nobody can get a decent one to work. Boxrec has recently focus too hard on using the ratings to predict future matchups rather than focusing on who the boxers have beaten and they also have an issue with way overvaluing boxers moving up divisions. If it was perfect, or any of the other rankings, we wouldn't be having these debates here as much.

I liked how Boxrec rankings worked around 8-9 years ago

[Finkel]

At ESPN and Ring somebody is paying them to give a sh*t

Yeah, the promoters.

Both rankings look to be primarily driven by marketing hype these days - ESPN's is particularly abysmal.

TBRB's top 10 looks reasonable enough, but then again, it isn't so different from ours. I wonder what there's would look like if it was extended to a top 15.

[Finkel]

Realistically, an algorithm would be better than any subjective opinion. It's just a shame that nobody can get a decent one to work. Boxrec has recently focus too hard on using the ratings to predict future matchups rather than focusing on who the boxers have beaten and they also have an issue with way overvaluing boxers moving up divisions. If it was perfect, or any of the other rankings, we wouldn't be having these debates here as much.

Yeah, I always liked PBO's rankings because they were based off actually resume/results. I could go down their top 50 heavyweights and it just felt like "yeah, fair enough really". No ranking is perfect, but theirs felt pretty close for a resume based one.

When boxrec switched to prediction it all went to pot as you say.

[Finkel]

I think no one agrees with the ranking. That’s the point of it.
You get moved by average/median opinion after a match happened. That way the ranking just grew organically over the years.
The problem is, that there isn’t much movement because of low activity and lack of meaningful matches between the ranked boxers.
The ranking isn’t super accurate because of that, but it’s still better than the political rankings the sanctioning bodies put out or most elo based computer rankings, that suffer from the same inactivity issues.

I think you have hit the nail on the head there. But as greggeggregg said above, the division is cooked.

Just an alignment of so many things, I guess. Promotional battles and moves made by Zuffa/Saudis. The belts have only just become free again. The Gold medal winner of the last two Olympics has had such a stop start pro career it's difficult to build excitement. Then we have young prospects like Itauma who just aren't fighting nearly enough in terms of what you would expect at their age.

I looked down the list of upcoming fights for the heavyweight division. There is next to nothing there.
It's funny how much some complained about the period between 2015~2020, but it was clear to me we were in a golden era in terms of actually getting regular and exciting heavyweight fights. Who could have predicted just how bad things were going to become though...

Maybe there will be some excitement again in say 2030, after the LA Olympics in 2028. Until then, we trudge on as fans

[Ruthless-RKO]

Realistically, an algorithm would be better than any subjective opinion. It's just a shame that nobody can get a decent one to work. Boxrec has recently focus too hard on using the ratings to predict future matchups rather than focusing on who the boxers have beaten and they also have an issue with way overvaluing boxers moving up divisions. If it was perfect, or any of the other rankings, we wouldn't be having these debates here as much.

Yeah, I always liked PBO's rankings because they were based off actually resume/results. I could go down their top 50 heavyweights and it just felt like "yeah, fair enough really". No ranking is perfect, but theirs felt pretty close for a resume based one.

When boxrec switched to prediction it all went to pot as you say.

There was a guy on here who used to promote PBO.

I used it at time. it was quite good actually.. bit hard to read at times, so maybe could have done with a facelift. but otherwise, very useful.

[joshj909]

Realistically, an algorithm would be better than any subjective opinion. It's just a shame that nobody can get a decent one to work. Boxrec has recently focus too hard on using the ratings to predict future matchups rather than focusing on who the boxers have beaten and they also have an issue with way overvaluing boxers moving up divisions. If it was perfect, or any of the other rankings, we wouldn't be having these debates here as much.

Yeah, I always liked PBO's rankings because they were based off actually resume/results. I could go down their top 50 heavyweights and it just felt like "yeah, fair enough really". No ranking is perfect, but theirs felt pretty close for a resume based one.

When boxrec switched to prediction it all went to pot as you say.

There was a guy on here who used to promote PBO.

I used it at time. it was quite good actually.. bit hard to read at times, so maybe could have done with a facelift. but otherwise, very useful.

Yeah I think it became outdated and never updated. If I remember correctly Christian Hammer, or someone like that, was rated wayyyyy too high in their rankings. It wasn't perfect but it was better than Boxrec's. Boxrec kept fiddling with theirs to get Fury rated number 1 which is wild. Gassiev is currently ranked 4th and Okolie 7th are key flaws in the rankings. That's while Parker is down in 14th.

[Sendo Takeshi]

So do I. I actually remember taking the time to help a website establish a Top 10 for all 17 weight classes once upon a time and my reward was supposedly the experience of learning how to be a Sportswriter.

I bet Dana White was behind that. He loves paying people in “opportunities.”

Realistically, an algorithm would be better than any subjective opinion. It's just a shame that nobody can get a decent one to work. Boxrec has recently focus too hard on using the ratings to predict future matchups rather than focusing on who the boxers have beaten and they also have an issue with way overvaluing boxers moving up divisions. If it was perfect, or any of the other rankings, we wouldn't be having these debates here as much.

UFC recently added AI rankings, and funny enough, they seem to have the same problem with ignoring who the fighters actually fought.

Fighter A is on a three fight losing streak and got dominated by Fighter B in his last fight, but is somehow still ranked above him.

[joshj909]

So do I. I actually remember taking the time to help a website establish a Top 10 for all 17 weight classes once upon a time and my reward was supposedly the experience of learning how to be a Sportswriter.

I bet Dana White was behind that. He loves paying people in “opportunities.”

Realistically, an algorithm would be better than any subjective opinion. It's just a shame that nobody can get a decent one to work. Boxrec has recently focus too hard on using the ratings to predict future matchups rather than focusing on who the boxers have beaten and they also have an issue with way overvaluing boxers moving up divisions. If it was perfect, or any of the other rankings, we wouldn't be having these debates here as much.

UFC recently added AI rankings, and funny enough, they seem to have the same problem with ignoring who the fighters actually fought.

Fighter A is on a three fight losing streak and got dominated by Fighter B in his last fight, but is somehow still ranked above him.

In MMA, fightmatrix has pretty good algorithm rankings. Probably the best objective rankings out there across boxing or MMA. It would be interesting to see how far apart those rankings are from UFC's AI rankings.

[Sendo Takeshi]

So do I. I actually remember taking the time to help a website establish a Top 10 for all 17 weight classes once upon a time and my reward was supposedly the experience of learning how to be a Sportswriter.

I bet Dana White was behind that. He loves paying people in “opportunities.”

Realistically, an algorithm would be better than any subjective opinion. It's just a shame that nobody can get a decent one to work. Boxrec has recently focus too hard on using the ratings to predict future matchups rather than focusing on who the boxers have beaten and they also have an issue with way overvaluing boxers moving up divisions. If it was perfect, or any of the other rankings, we wouldn't be having these debates here as much.

UFC recently added AI rankings, and funny enough, they seem to have the same problem with ignoring who the fighters actually fought.

Fighter A is on a three fight losing streak and got dominated by Fighter B in his last fight, but is somehow still ranked above him.

In MMA, fightmatrix has pretty good algorithm rankings. Probably the best objective rankings out there across boxing or MMA. It would be interesting to see how far apart those rankings are from UFC's AI rankings.

Just looked up their P4P rankings and having Van at #2 while Volk is at #10 is definitely...a choice

[joshj909]

I bet Dana White was behind that. He loves paying people in “opportunities.”



UFC recently added AI rankings, and funny enough, they seem to have the same problem with ignoring who the fighters actually fought.

Fighter A is on a three fight losing streak and got dominated by Fighter B in his last fight, but is somehow still ranked above him.

In MMA, fightmatrix has pretty good algorithm rankings. Probably the best objective rankings out there across boxing or MMA. It would be interesting to see how far apart those rankings are from UFC's AI rankings.

Just looked up their P4P rankings and having Van at #2 while Volk is at #10 is definitely...a choice

P4p is always nonsense. Think that can be skipped

[Finkel]

Was there an outcome to this vote?

[Ruthless-RKO]

Was there an outcome to this vote?

No it’s still open lol.

I’ll close it off this week

[Ruthless-RKO]

The vote is over.

Fury remains at #7
Joshua enters at #15
Riakporhe gets pushed OUT
Sirenko remains OUT

Current ranking:
Oleksandr Usyk - 25(16) 0 0 - next fight: TBA

2. Agit Kabayel - 27(19) 0 0 - next fight: TBA

3. Daniel Dubois - 23(22) 3(3) 0 - next fight: TBA

4 . Joseph Parker - 36(24) 4(2) 0 - next fight: TBA

5. Fabio Wardley - 19(18) 1 1 - next fight: TBA

6. Efe Ajagba - 21(15) 1(0) 1 - next fight: TBA

7. Tyson Fury - 36(25) 2(0) 1 - next fight: TBA

8. Frank Sanchez - 26(19) 1(1) 0 - next fight: TBA

9. Filip Hrgovic - 20(15) 1(1) 0 - next fight: 29.08.2026 vs. Moses Itauma - 14(12) 0 0 - (#11)

10. Justis Huni - 13(7) 1(1) 0 - next fight: TBA

11. Moses Itauma - 14(12) 0 0 - next fight: 29.08.2026 vs. Filip Hrgovic - 20(15) 1(1) 0 - (#9)

12. Deontay Wilder - 45(43) 4(3) 1 - next fight: TBA

13. Rico Verhoeven - 1(1) 1(1) 0 - next fight: TBA

14. Murat Gassiev - 34(27) 2(0) 0 - next fight: TBA

15. Anthony Joshua - 30(27) 4(2) 0 - next fight: TBA

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