Hamed was NEARLY defeated two years before Barrera...

Jaybee From The Castle · Post by **Jaybee From The Castle** » 10 Oct 2006, 17:15

Remember his fight with Cesar Soto in '99? The Mexican was a lot taller, had a ironclad chin, and hit pretty hard. Here's how I scored the first four rounds - and I'd like to stress that Hamed's speed and workrate fell off a cliff after this round:

Round 1 - Hamed
Round 2 - Soto
Round 3 - Hamed
Round 4 - Soto.

Up until that time, NOBODY had been level pegging with Hamed going into the 5th. Hamed's team knew they were looking down the barrel of defeat, as Hamed's handspeed and workrate would begin dropping much faster than Soto's. And it would almost certainly go to a decision, given Soto's chin was every bit as good (back then) as Mcullough before him...a decision the Hamed camp would lose.

So, what did they do? I put it to you they instructed Hamed to bodyslam Soto. I put it to you that it was NOT an act of revenge for Soto's own dirty tactics, which they were aware would be a feature of the evening, and thus serve as a nice, convenient smokescreen, no, rather it was a brilliantly crafted psychological warfare maneouvre. I put it to you that they KNEW the ref would not dare halt a multi-million dolllar fight over this incident, probably ending his career too.

The injustice of Hamed not being DQ'ed SHOOK Soto. "But there are rules against this sort of thing, how can this happen to me?!!?" I'm sure his latin sense of justice was thinking. That certainly took much of the fight out of him mentally...that bodyslam was a shattering blow to his faith in 'the system'. The ref had just screwed him, and so would the judges. You could see on his face that he'd lost faith, interest and hope.

I contend that Hamed, thanks to savvy foresight by his team, dodged a bullet that night; and THAT FIGHT, my friends, was what Barrera used as the blueprint to beat Hamed 2 years later; none of the guys who brawled Hamed had ever come close to knocking him down for a convincing time. No, the way to do it was to outbox him...Mcullough himself could have done it if he'd had half a brain, walking down Hamed instead of allowing him to dart in every 60 seconds and run back out and hide for a minute.

Soto took it one step further, literally, by walking forward when Hamed ran. Barrera, being much smarter still than either of those two, was the man who could refine their plans and execute - elbows sewn tight, guard high, rotate away from Hamed's primary weapon (left hand), use the differing armspans to maintain a 2" theatre of operations in which to jab without being jabbed in return, counter FCUCKING hard when Hamed missed, and NEVER deviate from the plan, no matter what Hamed pulled.

But NOW you know where the plan originated.

Jaybee.

Jaybee From The Castle · Post by **Jaybee From The Castle** » 11 Oct 2006, 02:00

Decagon wrote:Huh, but since Barerra should've been DQed, does that mean that Hamed never lost to him? And how do we know that Barerra's corner didn't tell him to put Hamed in a half nelson and slam his head into the turnbuckle?

Because by then the fight was almost over????

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 11 Oct 2006, 11:27

I was watching the first time Hamed was Knocked Down a guy from Mexico.....It looked pretty competitive for a few rounds.

The first time Hamed put someone down from a body shot he was real impressed with himself and tried his best to do it the next fight out and got so distracted by his obsession he let that fight get overly competitive as well.

He spent way to much time admiring his work.....someone was bound to get to him the way Barrera did....

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 11 Oct 2006, 12:06

BoxBuzz wrote:I was watching the first time Hamed was Knocked Down a guy from Mexico.....It looked pretty competitive for a few rounds..

Daniel Alicea?

BoxBuzz wrote:The first time Hamed put someone down from a body shot he was real impressed with himself and tried his best to do it the next fight out and got so distracted by his obsession he let that fight get overly competitive as well.

The first time Hamed dropped and stopped someone with a body shot was against Ricky Beard in Hamed professional debut so are you refering to his fight against Shaun Norman?

ebeneezer · Post by **ebeneezer** » 11 Oct 2006, 19:12

I always thought the closest he came to defeat before Barrera was against Paul Ingle.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 11 Oct 2006, 22:23

Kojoe I stand corrected then I didn't realize that he did that with his first pro fight. And yes Alicea I believe...however I didnt remember it being that short of a fight...so I may be wrong about that too. If it is hime he's from puerto rico actually....and he is still pretty active I think.

Was that the guy who scored a flash KD of Hamed? Age...Memory....lack of sanity......all taking their toll on me

Jaybee From The Castle · Post by **Jaybee From The Castle** » 14 Oct 2006, 07:27

Decagon wrote:
Jaybee From The Castle wrote:
Decagon wrote:Huh, but since Barerra should've been DQed, does that mean that Hamed never lost to him? And how do we know that Barerra's corner didn't tell him to put Hamed in a half nelson and slam his head into the turnbuckle?
Because by then the fight was almost over????

I was making fun of your post, which was quite ludicrous. No trainer would say, "go in there and body slam him."

You clearly have a lot to learn about the game. And as you just found out, making "fun" is not a viable method of conveying a point of view to me. I deal in facts, I leave the giggling to the kids - and you'll find plenty of them here, if you have the time to waste.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 14 Oct 2006, 09:28

Jaybee is a no nonsense, slap the snot off your face, iron fisted, shanannaganless, contributor....he don't take no mess. Let this be a lesson to all.

Jaybee From The Castle · Post by **Jaybee From The Castle** » 14 Oct 2006, 16:29

Decagon wrote:
Jaybee From The Castle wrote:You clearly have a lot to learn about the game. And as you just found out, making "fun" is not a viable method of conveying a point of view to me. I deal in facts, I leave the giggling to the kids - and you'll find plenty of them here, if you have the time to waste.
Oh, really?!?!?! What's your factual basis for thinking that Hamed's team told him to commit a foul?

The fact that it is highly likely is the basis for my thought. For reasons available above and doubtless unread by the attention-deficient.

Don't try to bandy words with me, boy. Your time is glaringly abundant; mine is money.

Jaybee.

Jaybee From The Castle · Post by **Jaybee From The Castle** » 14 Oct 2006, 21:12

You've wasted enough of your time, which is fine, but the line is crossed with MY time.

Don't darken my door again. And get a decently paid job.

Jaybee.

Collins2000 · Post by **Collins2000** » 14 Oct 2006, 21:28

Jaybee From The Castle wrote:
Decagon wrote:
Jaybee From The Castle wrote: Because by then the fight was almost over????

I was making fun of your post, which was quite ludicrous. No trainer would say, "go in there and body slam him."
You clearly have a lot to learn about the game. And as you just found out, making "fun" is not a viable method of conveying a point of view to me. I deal in facts, I leave the giggling to the kids - and you'll find plenty of them here, if you have the time to waste.

Jaybee (great name for a clown), I count myself lucky to have missed you on the way up.

iceman21287 · Post by **iceman21287** » 15 Oct 2006, 00:50

I don't understand why you need to create a conspiracy theory out of something that was so obviously NOT a conspiracy.

Collins2000 · Post by **Collins2000** » 15 Oct 2006, 17:07

Decagon wrote:I'm a great proponent of Ockham's Razor, myself.

Apparently it doesn't apply amongst boxing 'fans'.

Anyway, if they applied Ockam's razor they wouldn't be able to come up with stories that Brit fighters from before the war were the REAL world champs and / or Coetzee was one of the greatest champs EVER or most refs are crooked or the dozens of other nonsensical ramblings that go on in here.

Jaybee From The Castle · Post by **Jaybee From The Castle** » 16 Oct 2006, 16:04

iceman21287 wrote:I don't understand why you need to create a conspiracy theory out of something that was so obviously NOT a conspiracy.

??

Need? There's no need to create any theories. No need to post, use the internet, no need to earn money. There was an obligation to bring Hamed's likely fraud to light - let me be clear on that - not a need.

Jaybee.