Bernard Hopkins retired on top after winning the LHW crown in a one-sided performance over slick southpaw Antonio Tarver, whose best known for defeating Roy Jones. In a move that stunned the critics, and had most experts voting against him, The Executioner became another George Foreman as he pulled the upset at the age of 42.
Now Bernard Hopkins is testing the waters again, this time in a proposed match-up against "The Big O" Oleg Maskaev. Maskaev in his last fight knocked out WBC champion Hasim Rahman in the 12th round. It is rumored that if Maskaev can get passed his first defense in Peter Okhello, that Bernard Hopkins will take on Maskaev!
Is Bernard Hopkins for real? Does he really believe he has a chance against a genuine HW title holder, and at his advanced age? Its so easy to dismiss a fighter, but Hopkins has proven us wrong before. But mind you, he's never fought nobody with a HW chin let alone HW power, especially someone who hits as hard as "The Big O".
My opinion? I would rather pay to see Hopkins take on Joe Calzaghe, than to see Hopkins against Maskaev, despite the risks involved.
Bernard Hopkins: Dreaming An Impossible Dream?
-
HomicideHenry
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 18722
- Joined: 08 Sep 2005, 00:43
-
yiddo14
- Heavyweight
All this,moving up divisions to win heavyweight titles is'nt the great,defining achievement that it seems.
When RJJ did it,he singled out the weak link in the chain in Ruiz.If he was genuine in wanting to create an amazing achievement,then why did'nt he step to the recognised,true heavyweight champion at that time? Because that guy would have crushed RJJ in 2 thats why!!
Hopkins is doing something similar here.
Maskaev is the weakest link in the chain also.If Bernard is really genuine in his attempt to create something amazing,then fight Wlad or Valuev!!
Look at what someone like Holyfield did.He was only weighing the same as what RJJ did for Ruiz when he had his first few fights in the heavyweight division,and he took on genuine fighters and genuine champions.
Now that is a great achievement.
When RJJ did it,he singled out the weak link in the chain in Ruiz.If he was genuine in wanting to create an amazing achievement,then why did'nt he step to the recognised,true heavyweight champion at that time? Because that guy would have crushed RJJ in 2 thats why!!
Hopkins is doing something similar here.
Maskaev is the weakest link in the chain also.If Bernard is really genuine in his attempt to create something amazing,then fight Wlad or Valuev!!
Look at what someone like Holyfield did.He was only weighing the same as what RJJ did for Ruiz when he had his first few fights in the heavyweight division,and he took on genuine fighters and genuine champions.
Now that is a great achievement.
-
HomicideHenry
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 18722
- Joined: 08 Sep 2005, 00:43
No disrespect, but Maskaev stopped Hasim Rahman who faced the likes of Holyfield, Ruiz, Toney and bombed out the last true lineal champion in Lennox Lewis. I wouldn't quite call him the weakest link in the chain.
Valuev, in my opinion, is more a questionable fighter, as he has faced no one near his size, and he has never really been in against a big puncher or a skilled tactician either.
I feel somewhat the same way with Wladimir Klitschko, as his chin and ability is in my mind in question. Sure he got up off the floor to win against Samuel Peter, but he won the title against a stationary Chris Byrd who tried to slug and stand his ground, rather than slip and slide like he always does.
As far as Liakhovich is concerned, he has really fast hands and decent enough power, but before beating Lamon Brewster, who the hell ever heard of him?
Myself if Bernard Hopkins takes on Maskaev it would be a fight that would have more meaning to it than what Roy Jones move to HW was against John Ruiz, because unlike Ruiz, Maskaev has boxing ability, doesn't clinch every ten seconds and has far greater power.
Plus Hopkins would be moving up two weight classes, and at 42, it would be quite a risk indeed.
Valuev, in my opinion, is more a questionable fighter, as he has faced no one near his size, and he has never really been in against a big puncher or a skilled tactician either.
I feel somewhat the same way with Wladimir Klitschko, as his chin and ability is in my mind in question. Sure he got up off the floor to win against Samuel Peter, but he won the title against a stationary Chris Byrd who tried to slug and stand his ground, rather than slip and slide like he always does.
As far as Liakhovich is concerned, he has really fast hands and decent enough power, but before beating Lamon Brewster, who the hell ever heard of him?
Myself if Bernard Hopkins takes on Maskaev it would be a fight that would have more meaning to it than what Roy Jones move to HW was against John Ruiz, because unlike Ruiz, Maskaev has boxing ability, doesn't clinch every ten seconds and has far greater power.
Plus Hopkins would be moving up two weight classes, and at 42, it would be quite a risk indeed.
-
yiddo14
- Heavyweight
Ruiz is a better fighter than Maskaev.If they were to fight,Ruiz would beat him.
When you are as big in boxing as RJJ was back then,and Hopkins is now,then there is no need for you to pick and choose who you want to face when attempting something like this.
If Hopkins is going to do this,then he should fight the BEST heavyweight champion out there,and I'am afraid Maskaev is'nt.Wlad would destroy him,and I would also favour Sergei and Nikolai to do a number on him.
The only chance Maskaev had of winning the so called title(remember,Rahaman was given the title,he never won it)was through facing the washed up,past it Hasim.
Any of the current heavyweight champions would gladly face Hopkins.
He is something which the heavyweight divison lacks.....a genuine name.
I'am not dismissing the acievement of RJJ or,if he attempts this,Hopkins.
I'am just saying that it is'nt as impressive as it first seems.
When you are as big in boxing as RJJ was back then,and Hopkins is now,then there is no need for you to pick and choose who you want to face when attempting something like this.
If Hopkins is going to do this,then he should fight the BEST heavyweight champion out there,and I'am afraid Maskaev is'nt.Wlad would destroy him,and I would also favour Sergei and Nikolai to do a number on him.
The only chance Maskaev had of winning the so called title(remember,Rahaman was given the title,he never won it)was through facing the washed up,past it Hasim.
Any of the current heavyweight champions would gladly face Hopkins.
He is something which the heavyweight divison lacks.....a genuine name.
I'am not dismissing the acievement of RJJ or,if he attempts this,Hopkins.
I'am just saying that it is'nt as impressive as it first seems.
-
yiddo14
- Heavyweight
Brewster and Byrd won their respective titles when they were VACANT...big difference to being handed a title outside of the ring.
Do you know the details of Vitali/Maskaev bout in the amateurs? Can't see how Maskaev could KNOCK OUT Vitali.Stop him by outclassing him,maybe,or 3 standing count rule,but not a straight up knock out.
Does this mean anything? This amateur victory did'nt mean shit when Maskaev was getting his ass handed to him by such greats as Whitaker,Johnson and Corey Sanders!!!!
You don't honestly beleive that Maskaev is better than Wlad? Pointing to an amateur victory over his brother as proof is poor.What's to say Vitali was really that much better than Wlad anyway? Don't see many decent names on his win record,and I certainly don't recall him winning an olympic gold medal.
I would say Wlad is the man at heavy right now.
I agree that todays 4 champs are'nt great,but I guarentee anyone of them would fight Hopkins,purely for the amount of cash it would generate.
Do you know the details of Vitali/Maskaev bout in the amateurs? Can't see how Maskaev could KNOCK OUT Vitali.Stop him by outclassing him,maybe,or 3 standing count rule,but not a straight up knock out.
Does this mean anything? This amateur victory did'nt mean shit when Maskaev was getting his ass handed to him by such greats as Whitaker,Johnson and Corey Sanders!!!!
You don't honestly beleive that Maskaev is better than Wlad? Pointing to an amateur victory over his brother as proof is poor.What's to say Vitali was really that much better than Wlad anyway? Don't see many decent names on his win record,and I certainly don't recall him winning an olympic gold medal.
I would say Wlad is the man at heavy right now.
I agree that todays 4 champs are'nt great,but I guarentee anyone of them would fight Hopkins,purely for the amount of cash it would generate.
-
dr_devious
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 5348
- Joined: 29 Dec 2005, 09:19
-
yiddo14
- Heavyweight
I did'nt know Vitali was KO'ed by a single punch from Maskaev,thats quite suprising.Decagon wrote:One punch. That's all it took for Maskaev to beat Vitali.
One kick, not to the leg, as Klitschko falsely claimed, is all it took for Pele Reid to beat Vitali.
Rahman beat Barrett for the interim title; if the bout had taken a few months later, it would've been for the vacant title.
I knew about the Pele Reid KO,but a kick is generally more powerful than a punch.
To the other guy,Vitali was a kick boxer before he boxed.He was very successful by all accounts.
-
Eric the Viking
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 1354
- Joined: 03 Apr 2003, 21:40
C'mon, let's get real here - RJJ, Hopkins and Toney are all guys who started their careers as *middleweights* (in Jones's case, junior MW, in fact). Holyfield was a small heavy by today's standards but (like Clay/Ali) won his Olympic medal at light-heavy and started out at cruiser in the pros - simply a naturally bigger man than the above three. You just have to look at them side-by-side to see that Holy has a naturally much bigger frame. (Hopkins, the tallest of the three smaller guys, only gives up an inch or two of height to Holy, but has a much more slender frame, a kind of Tommy Hearns-style build.) It's simply unreaonable for someone with the frame of a middleweight to fight a Lennox-Lewis-style monster.yiddo14 wrote:All this,moving up divisions to win heavyweight titles is'nt the great,defining achievement that it seems.
When RJJ did it,he singled out the weak link in the chain in Ruiz.If he was genuine in wanting to create an amazing achievement,then why did'nt he step to the recognised,true heavyweight champion at that time? Because that guy would have crushed RJJ in 2 thats why!!
Hopkins is doing something similar here.
Maskaev is the weakest link in the chain also.If Bernard is really genuine in his attempt to create something amazing,then fight Wlad or Valuev!!
Look at what someone like Holyfield did.He was only weighing the same as what RJJ did for Ruiz when he had his first few fights in the heavyweight division,and he took on genuine fighters and genuine champions.
Now that is a great achievement.
Look at some of the famous historical instances of smaller champs fighting for the heavyweight title:
Code: Select all
Fighter/Height/Weight:
Year Little 'Un / Hght Wght Big 'Un / Hght Wght
---- ----------- ---- ---- ----------- ---- ----
1900 Corbett 6'1" 188 Jeffries 6'2" 218
1909 Ketchel 5'9" 170 Johnson 6'2" 206
1919 Dempsey 6'1" 187 Willard 6'6" 245
1923 Dempsey 6'1" 193 Firpo 6'3" 217
1941 Conn 6'1" 174 Louis 6'2" 200
1951 Marciano 5'11" 184 Louis 6'2" 214
1954 Charles 6'0" 186 Marciano 5'11" 188
1955 Moore 5'11" 188 Marciano 5'11" 188
1962 Moore 5'11" 191 Clay/Ali 6'3" 204
1992 Holyfield 6'2" 205 Bowe 6'5" 235
2003 Jones 5'11" 193 Ruiz 6'2" 225
2005 Toney 5'10" 233 Ruiz 6'2" 241
2007? Hopkins 6'1" ~200 Maskaev 6'3" ~240Easy for the armchair pugilists to say stuff like "Jones should've fought Lewis" or "Hopkins should be fighting Wlad" - not your ass on the line, is it?
-
HomicideHenry
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 18722
- Joined: 08 Sep 2005, 00:43
Roy Jones defeating John Ruiz is just as surprising as it was for Harold Johnson defeating Peter McNeely. John Ruiz, I will say was a solid top ten HW, but the WBA strap meant little and Ruiz had yet to prove himself at the time of being a legit HW threat. His three fights with a faded Holyfield and a DQ win over Kirk Johnson proved nothing.
Toney fought an even older Holyfield in his first outing as a HW. Then he faced unknown and untested Rydell Booker [who was undefeated]. Then he tested positive for steroids against John Ruiz. Then beat Davaryll Williamson who nobody cares about, draws against an out of shape and questionable Hasim Rahman and then loses to Samuel Peter with stamina issues who only had ONE real test as a fighter.
And YES...it would have been something more had Jones had faced a more dominant fighter, but he demanded $100 million for facing Tyson, which is OUTRAGEOUS. Then there was talk of facing a faded Holyfield, but it never materialised, and then talk of facing Lennox Lewis, and that too never materialised.
At least Toney made the move to HW for longer than one night, so as a HW I rank Toney greater than Jones, though Toney has yet to prove his abilities either, as he fails once he faces the top five.
IF Hopkins does make the move to HW against Maskaev, at age 42, against Maskaev it would be a greater upset/risk than what Toney and Jones ever made. AND...if Hopkins wins, which is a long shot, it would undoubtedly be more impressive in my mind than what Toney or Jones did in their first fight at HW.
Myself I think a greater investment for Hopkins would be facing off with Joe Calzaghe for the Brit's WBO title at SMW or maybe even a battle with Toney at CW, all would be bigger pay days with less risks involved. But if he does make the move to HW and faces off with Maskaev, it shows to me that Hopkins has more balls than both Jones and Toney combined.
Toney fought an even older Holyfield in his first outing as a HW. Then he faced unknown and untested Rydell Booker [who was undefeated]. Then he tested positive for steroids against John Ruiz. Then beat Davaryll Williamson who nobody cares about, draws against an out of shape and questionable Hasim Rahman and then loses to Samuel Peter with stamina issues who only had ONE real test as a fighter.
And YES...it would have been something more had Jones had faced a more dominant fighter, but he demanded $100 million for facing Tyson, which is OUTRAGEOUS. Then there was talk of facing a faded Holyfield, but it never materialised, and then talk of facing Lennox Lewis, and that too never materialised.
At least Toney made the move to HW for longer than one night, so as a HW I rank Toney greater than Jones, though Toney has yet to prove his abilities either, as he fails once he faces the top five.
IF Hopkins does make the move to HW against Maskaev, at age 42, against Maskaev it would be a greater upset/risk than what Toney and Jones ever made. AND...if Hopkins wins, which is a long shot, it would undoubtedly be more impressive in my mind than what Toney or Jones did in their first fight at HW.
Myself I think a greater investment for Hopkins would be facing off with Joe Calzaghe for the Brit's WBO title at SMW or maybe even a battle with Toney at CW, all would be bigger pay days with less risks involved. But if he does make the move to HW and faces off with Maskaev, it shows to me that Hopkins has more balls than both Jones and Toney combined.
-
HomicideHenry
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 18722
- Joined: 08 Sep 2005, 00:43
That's the whole point, when Johnson beat McNeely it meant relatively nothing, and neither should Jones win over Ruiz. For anyone to say Holyfield was near his prime when he faced off with Ruiz is not thinking right. In my opinion Holyfield's prime was ended after his win over Micheal Moorer, because after that fact he was on the downside.
Ruiz hadn't really proved anything by the time he faced Jones, the best HW he fought was David Tua, and he was KO'd in 19 seconds of the first round by the Tua Man.
Ruiz did prove after losing to Jones that he was a really capable fighter and arguably the best of the four title holders at the time, before losing a controversial decision to Valuev. But before then, no.
As far as Holyfield's win over Rahman, I guess if head butting your opponent to death and giving him a bump the size of his own head...then yea I guess you can say it was a good victory for Holyfield. Besides, outside of Rahman's fluke KO win over Lewis, what has he proven outside of being one of the most 'hot and cold' fighters on the planet.
Ruiz hadn't really proved anything by the time he faced Jones, the best HW he fought was David Tua, and he was KO'd in 19 seconds of the first round by the Tua Man.
Ruiz did prove after losing to Jones that he was a really capable fighter and arguably the best of the four title holders at the time, before losing a controversial decision to Valuev. But before then, no.
As far as Holyfield's win over Rahman, I guess if head butting your opponent to death and giving him a bump the size of his own head...then yea I guess you can say it was a good victory for Holyfield. Besides, outside of Rahman's fluke KO win over Lewis, what has he proven outside of being one of the most 'hot and cold' fighters on the planet.
-
HomicideHenry
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 18722
- Joined: 08 Sep 2005, 00:43
I do think Ruiz can win it back again. I'm just saying, despite holding the WBA strap or not, John Ruiz at that time wasn't exactly the champion everyone cheered, let alone remembered.
He has proven to be something more than what we all thought, but nobody can say that it would have looked better on Jones record if he had either fought Lewis or defended his WBA title at least once or twice more after Ruiz, who at that time might as well of been a clone of Tommy Morrison who held the WBO belt.
All I am saying is with Hopkins advanced age, jumping passed Cruiserweight to Heavyweight to face off against arguably the hardest hitting of the four title holders, is a greater risk than Jones when he faced Ruiz, who was more or less a mauler with decent power.
He has proven to be something more than what we all thought, but nobody can say that it would have looked better on Jones record if he had either fought Lewis or defended his WBA title at least once or twice more after Ruiz, who at that time might as well of been a clone of Tommy Morrison who held the WBO belt.
All I am saying is with Hopkins advanced age, jumping passed Cruiserweight to Heavyweight to face off against arguably the hardest hitting of the four title holders, is a greater risk than Jones when he faced Ruiz, who was more or less a mauler with decent power.
-
HomicideHenry
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 18722
- Joined: 08 Sep 2005, 00:43
You're telling me that Jones win over John Ruiz, who never really proved himself as a fighter at the time, who faced an over the hill Holyfield three times and won a horrible fight with Kirk Johnson by DQ makes the win for Jones tremendous?
Watch that fight and its ridiculous. The referee broke up the clinches every time. Had Jones been a HW his entire career they wouldn't have done that, as the referee's always let John Ruiz be the huggy bear SOB that he is. Had the referee didn't do that, Ruiz would have had a more effective attack and could have stopped Jones.
I say that with a straight face, watch the first round, as Ruiz sends Jones flying and AFTER that round the referee was more or less winning the fight for Jones.
I bought the PPV and YES it is historic as it was the first time in over 100 years that a MW won a HW title, but it wasn't exactly Lewis, Klitschko's, or any of the bigger, more skilled fighters than Jones was taking on.
Bernard Hopkins is going to take on a man who beat a former champion in Hasim Rahman by KO, who is possibly the hardest hitting of the four champions and just as skillful as Wlad. This isn't Ruiz, this is Maskaev who is bigger than Ruiz and a better all-around fighter skill wise and packs a bigger punch.
Watch that fight and its ridiculous. The referee broke up the clinches every time. Had Jones been a HW his entire career they wouldn't have done that, as the referee's always let John Ruiz be the huggy bear SOB that he is. Had the referee didn't do that, Ruiz would have had a more effective attack and could have stopped Jones.
I say that with a straight face, watch the first round, as Ruiz sends Jones flying and AFTER that round the referee was more or less winning the fight for Jones.
I bought the PPV and YES it is historic as it was the first time in over 100 years that a MW won a HW title, but it wasn't exactly Lewis, Klitschko's, or any of the bigger, more skilled fighters than Jones was taking on.
Bernard Hopkins is going to take on a man who beat a former champion in Hasim Rahman by KO, who is possibly the hardest hitting of the four champions and just as skillful as Wlad. This isn't Ruiz, this is Maskaev who is bigger than Ruiz and a better all-around fighter skill wise and packs a bigger punch.
-
BrocktonBlockbuster49
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 4900
- Joined: 29 May 2005, 00:32
I read that Vitali broke his hand and quit rather then actually getting knocked out? Has anyone actually seen this fight? If what Decagon is saying is true, I'd love to see it.Decagon wrote:One punch. That's all it took for Maskaev to beat Vitali.
One kick, not to the leg, as Klitschko falsely claimed, is all it took for Pele Reid to beat Vitali.
Rahman beat Barrett for the interim title; if the bout had taken a few months later, it would've been for the vacant title.
Valuev is a joke Bernard could jab and move and beat him easily. The clumsy oath couldn't even hit him. Wlad would be a terrible matchup as he could actually tag him and hurt him.yiddo14 wrote:All this,moving up divisions to win heavyweight titles is'nt the great,defining achievement that it seems.
When RJJ did it,he singled out the weak link in the chain in Ruiz.If he was genuine in wanting to create an amazing achievement,then why did'nt he step to the recognised,true heavyweight champion at that time? Because that guy would have crushed RJJ in 2 thats why!!
Hopkins is doing something similar here.
Maskaev is the weakest link in the chain also.If Bernard is really genuine in his attempt to create something amazing,then fight Wlad or Valuev!!
Look at what someone like Holyfield did.He was only weighing the same as what RJJ did for Ruiz when he had his first few fights in the heavyweight division,and he took on genuine fighters and genuine champions.
Now that is a great achievement.
Maskaev is a dangerous fighter but i wouldn't put it past Hopkins beating him.
True, still I'd like to see the fight before I decided one way or the other. It was in the Military Games or something like that so you'd think someone made a film of it.Decagon wrote:Vitali has lied about every single one of his losses, pretty much. Anything he says about why he lost a fight has ZERO credibility.