McGuigan reckons Calzaghe is best british fighter ever!

Rocky Balboa · Post by **Rocky Balboa** » 13 Oct 2006, 12:09

Former world featherweight champion, now ITV boxing expert, Barry McGuigan believes that WBO and IBF super-middleweight world champion Joe Calzaghe is “arguably the greatest British fighter there has ever been.”

Speaking to http://www.itv.com/boxing , McGuigan also reacts to comments made by Sugar Ray Leonard that Calzaghe needs to box at least one big name in America if he wants to be a big star. Asked whether Calzaghe has missed the boat somewhat by not boxing in America, Barry says:

“I understand Sugar Ray Leonard and others saying if he wants to become a really big star he has to box at least one big name in America. However it's a bit contradictory because I've worked out there and continue to work out there for ESPN and the fact is all the big shows are on cable, satellite or pay-per-view. They are not going to the bigger audiences anyway so how can the bigger audiences discover him when he's not on terrestrial TV out there? We are fairly unique at ITV in that we are going to a mass audience, including the casual observers.”

Talking about the threat from challenger Sakio Bika, Barry believes that he expects Calzaghe to win, but that the Cameroonian could cause Joe problems on the night:

“You shouldn't underestimate Sakio Bika. This situation kind of reminds me of the fight between Sugar Boy Malinga and Nigel Benn. Nothing to lose, everything to gain, everyone expecting Joe to blow him away. Now I don't think that Bika is as good as Malinga was but I think he's every bit as tough. He's awkward, he has a gung-ho style, walks in flat-footed and bangs away but he can box as well. If Joe's hands go early on can he keep him off? He could certainly cause Joe problems on the night given he has got nothing to lose but I still expect Calzaghe to win and then we can look forward to a super fight in the spring of next year.”

I cannot believe what I have just read. No way is JC the best british fighter ever. It's just plain ridiculous to believe such a thing!

Thoughts?

JC · Post by JC » 13 Oct 2006, 12:19

c2ute wrote:Ridiculous is a bit over the top but I think only Lewis and Hamed have done better, Hatton is about on par at the mo, and JC has gone past Honeyghan, who have I forgotten now to make me look stupid?!

Ken Buchanan....

Razor · Post by **Razor** » 13 Oct 2006, 12:19

Last 20 year i'd say is...

1. Lennox Lewis
2. Joe Calzaghe
3. Hatton
4. Prince Naz

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 13 Oct 2006, 12:21

..... and Tim Henman is the best British tennis player ever.

Seriously: Lennox is head and shoulders above anyone else I could think of.

yiddo14 · Post by **yiddo14** » 13 Oct 2006, 12:45

What about Jimmy Wilde?

Lennox is number 1 though.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 13 Oct 2006, 13:09

Talent wise no doubt Calzaghe is right up there but that has to be coupled with achievements and thats where he falls short.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 13 Oct 2006, 13:48

pundit wrote:..... and Tim Henman is the best British tennis player ever.

Seriously: Lennox is head and shoulders above anyone else I could think of.

Definitely.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 13 Oct 2006, 14:02

Absolute rot... Calzaghe is not even the best of the last 25 years... I'd rate Conteh, Minter, Honeyghan and Eubank all higher... also possibly Collins and Benn...

tonyevs · Post by **tonyevs** » 13 Oct 2006, 14:35

McGuigan had a lovers tiff with Amir

MightyWarrior · Post by **MightyWarrior** » 13 Oct 2006, 15:45

I agree with McGuigen this time: Joe is arguably the best fighter we've ever had in the UK. Apart from Lennox, some of the other big names mentioned didn't last too long at the top did they. Although great fighters like Minter and Buchanan had the bad luck to run into ring legends before they really got going.

JC · Post by JC » 13 Oct 2006, 16:02

MightyWarrior wrote:I agree with McGuigen this time: Joe is arguably the best fighter we've ever had in the UK. Apart from Lennox, some of the other big names mentioned didn't last too long at the top did they. Although great fighters like Minter and Buchanan had the bad luck to run into ring legends before they really got going.

True longevity is an important factor, but so is quality of opposition. Taking Buchanan as an example true his title reign was short but when you look at his best wins against Calzaghe's

Ismael Laguna (twice)
Ruben Navarro
Carlos Ortiz
Jim Watt

Woodhall
Ried
Eubank
Lacy

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 13 Oct 2006, 16:04

silkov wrote:Absolute rot... Calzaghe is not even the best of the last 25 years... I'd rate Conteh, Minter, Honeyghan and Eubank all higher... also possibly Collins and Benn...

Calzaghe's way better than Minter. Benn fought better competition, but I can't help but think Calzaghe's speed and variety would do in Benn, and his business would give Eubank a dreadful time. Not that I'm knocking Benn and Eubank. Push Eubank too far, make him fight & he was impressive. & Benn had more skills than given credit for.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 13 Oct 2006, 16:12

viciousmaussa wrote:
silkov wrote:Absolute rot... Calzaghe is not even the best of the last 25 years... I'd rate Conteh, Minter, Honeyghan and Eubank all higher... also possibly Collins and Benn...
Calzaghe's way better than Minter. Benn fought better competition, but I can't help but think Calzaghe's speed and variety would do in Benn, and his business would give Eubank a dreadful time. Not that I'm knocking Benn and Eubank. Push Eubank too far, make him fight & he was impressive. & Benn had more skills than given credit for.

How has Calzaghe showed that hes better than Minter?... I dont think so, Minter fought better opposition and was a better all round fighter imo...

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 13 Oct 2006, 16:21

viciousmaussa wrote:
silkov wrote:Absolute rot... Calzaghe is not even the best of the last 25 years... I'd rate Conteh, Minter, Honeyghan and Eubank all higher... also possibly Collins and Benn...
Calzaghe's way better than Minter. Benn fought better competition, but I can't help but think Calzaghe's speed and variety would do in Benn, and his business would give Eubank a dreadful time. Not that I'm knocking Benn and Eubank. Push Eubank too far, make him fight & he was impressive. & Benn had more skills than given credit for.

In terms of greatness (not potential), Benn's victory over Gerald McClellan alone, bitter as the ending was, counts twice as much as anything Calzaghe has done so far. And where is the Nigel Benn, the Michael Watford, the Graciano Rocchigiani on Calzaghe's resumee?

MightyWarrior · Post by **MightyWarrior** » 13 Oct 2006, 16:52

Yes in terms of quality of opposition I guess you can argue all night long, but in terms of all round ability I'd say Joe is right at the top.
There's no weakness in his game at all, none. Some say he doesn't punch hard enough, that he slaps, but you'd have a time convincing fighters like Eubank or Lacy of that supposed fault.

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 13 Oct 2006, 17:00

MightyWarrior wrote:Yes in terms of quality of opposition I guess you can argue all night long, but in terms of all round ability I'd say Joe is right at the top.
There's no weakness in his game at all, none. Some say he doesn't punch hard enough, that he slaps, but you'd have a time convincing fighters like Eubank or Lacy of that supposed fault.

Calzaghe has difficulties with slick, evasive, counter-punching fighters who he needs to chase down. His footspeed isn't half as good as his handspeed.

This is why he's avoided that type of fighter ever since almost losing to Robin Reid. Thus there are several Mitchells and Lacys on his resumee, but no Ottkes, Mundines or Beyers.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 13 Oct 2006, 18:39

We'll never know how really good Joe is/was - thats the shame of it. Without seeing him with a prime Benn/Eubank/Collins (let alone Toney/Jones/Hopkins) we will never find out. Unless Jeff Lacy can re-group and dominate a devision its very hard to assess Joe properly.

I think of those 6 mentioned, he would have only been successful vs Benn.... but thats just my opinion, I've got no proof of that and neither has the people who think Calzaghe could have beaten the lot of them.

What I am trying to say is thus far, Joe hasn't fought anyone NEAR that level to really formulate an opinion. Woodhall, Reid, a fading Brewer, Mitchell, Lacy were okay - but (as yet, in Lacy's case) are a level below those 6. Unless Joe can entice Hopkins, I can only see Jermain Taylor as a level above Joe's previous best win.

Hamed looked like a million dollars beating the level of fighter Joe has beaten, when he stepped up to the top level he beaten. Bad prep or not bad prep - the only time Hamed fought a A+ grade fighter in his prime he got outclassed. But Calzaghe has yet to have fought an A+ fighter in his pomp.

Lennox Lewis did and he past the test with flying colours - he has got to be #1 on achievements and PROVEN talent.

There is a fundamental weakness to Joe's game, he is so open to the straight right hand..... Just only two fighters have been intelligent enough to see it (Woodhall and Reid). Reid could have had the decision, Woodhall wasn't quite fresh/strong enough. All the other half dangerous fighters Joe has fought didn't try and throw the straight right hand. I was particularly frustrated at Brewer cause I had some money on him. I thought if he could take Joe's punch then he would cause problems - cause the straight right was a pet punch of his. He could take Joe's shots, but was whinging away with crosses all the time - no straight right hands through the middle.

Of all time though, it has to be Wilde by a country mile.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 13 Oct 2006, 20:09

pundit wrote:
MightyWarrior wrote:Yes in terms of quality of opposition I guess you can argue all night long, but in terms of all round ability I'd say Joe is right at the top.
There's no weakness in his game at all, none. Some say he doesn't punch hard enough, that he slaps, but you'd have a time convincing fighters like Eubank or Lacy of that supposed fault.
Calzaghe has difficulties with slick, evasive, counter-punching fighters who he needs to chase down. His footspeed isn't half as good as his handspeed.

This is why he's avoided that type of fighter ever since almost losing to Robin Reid. Thus there are several Mitchells and Lacys on his resumee, but no Ottkes, Mundines or Beyers.

No way would he duck a fighter who was KO'ed by Catley. Woodhall beat Catley too and guess who beat Woodhall.

slapbangwhallop · Post by **slapbangwhallop** » 13 Oct 2006, 21:11

c2ute wrote:N.B In run ups to fights McGuigan will say anything his paymasters tell him to.

for once you talk sense! McGuigan isnt going to bite the hand that feeds him!

Twinkle Toes · Post by **Twinkle Toes** » 14 Oct 2006, 03:40

Agreed, I dont really value McGuigan's opinion at all - Seems a nice guy and all, but he knows which side his bread is buttered and it's plain to see his opinion is dictated by that.

KO Artist · Post by **KO Artist** » 14 Oct 2006, 06:57

MightyWarrior wrote:Yes in terms of quality of opposition I guess you can argue all night long, but in terms of all round ability I'd say Joe is right at the top.
There's no weakness in his game at all, none. Some say he doesn't punch hard enough, that he slaps, but you'd have a time convincing fighters like Eubank or Lacy of that supposed fault.

For me Joe is up there now. Such a gifted fighter, prepares well, too.

How anyone can rate Lennox above Joe is beyond me. Lewis is not in Joe's league.

If Joe wins tonight (I have a nasty feeling about a clash of heads) and beats Kessler, Woods and maybe Jones, then retires undefeated, for me he would be the best of british, and one of the best ever regardless of nationality.

Grilling Machine · Post by **Grilling Machine** » 14 Oct 2006, 14:01

I've always felt Lewis was given a little too much credit.
Back in the mid-nineties I really rated him, but he sadly never went on to fight a prime Holyfield, a half-decent version of Tyson, or of course Bowe.

I believe the Bruno fight was his finest hour.
Calzaghe's greatest achievement was beating a faded Eubank.

ArtOfWar · Post by **ArtOfWar** » 14 Oct 2006, 16:21

If Calzaghe is the best ever it goes to show how shit British boxing has been and continues to be. I think that Britain's lack of success in boxing is even worse than Britain's lack of success in major football tournaments.

Lewis is the only all-time great we've had in the last 50 years and he was trained in North America.

Some may add Ken Buchanan to the add, but the lack of success is still not good.

Andy Mac · Post by **Andy Mac** » 15 Oct 2006, 05:15

Grilling Machine wrote:I've always felt Lewis was given a little too much credit.
Back in the mid-nineties I really rated him, but he sadly never went on to fight a prime Holyfield, a half-decent version of Tyson, or of course Bowe.

I believe the Bruno fight was his finest hour.
Calzaghe's greatest achievement was beating a faded Eubank.

Bowe threw his belt in a bin rather than fight Lennox, who had already stopped him as an amatuer. Tyson paid Lennox step aside money to defend against Holyfield. As for Holyfield himself, he would not have beaten Lennox at any time prime or no prime, just not big, strong, or skillful enough.

Andy Mac · Post by **Andy Mac** » 15 Oct 2006, 05:20

c2ute wrote:Ridiculous is a bit over the top but I think only Lewis and Hamed have done better, Hatton is about on par at the mo, and JC has gone past Honeyghan, who have I forgotten now to make me look stupid?!

With all due respect i dont think you need to forget anyone, claiming that Calzaghe has surpassed Honeyghan is pretty silly as it is. Woodhall Ried Eubank and Lacy are not, nor ever will they be anything like the class of Don Curry. Coke or no Coke.