Without Ali and Louis

[BrocktonBlockbuster49]

Anyway, why don't you tell us why Holmes wasn't willing to meet Page at that point?

Are we supposed to think Holmes was scared of him or something?

to tell u the truth, i dont know. holmes would have smoked him IMO. however there was something about greg page that made holmes not want to fight him. greg page on his A game was a very dangerous fighter, and page wanted holmes really bad. he would have brought his A game for holmes. holmes simply did not want to fight page for whatever reason


let me dig up the interview for you

[BrocktonBlockbuster49]

Greg Page wasn't a real #1 contender. He was just the WBC's excuse for a #1 contender. Peter Okhelo's the WBC #1 contender now. Would you be too angry if Oleg Maskaev dropped the WBC title in favor of the IBF title simply because he didn't feel like fighting Okhelo?

dont compare okhelo to greg page. page had world class talent and skills. okhelo did not. greg page was the real # 1 WBC contender. he won his title eliminater over very solid renaldo snipes.

[HomicideHenry]

The only thing that disappointed me in Holmes was that he became a man of money, rather than a man of legacy. He did prove that he was one of the best ever, but I take points off for never making the attempt to unify the titles, and not facing off with Page, Coetzee and others.

Certainly they would have gave holmes a better fight than damn Scott Frank and Marvis Frazier.

[Collins2000]

Anyway, why don't you tell us why Holmes wasn't willing to meet Page at that point?

Are we supposed to think Holmes was scared of him or something?

to tell u the truth, i dont know. holmes would have smoked him IMO. however there was something about greg page that made holmes not want to fight him. greg page on his A game was a very dangerous fighter, and page wanted holmes really bad. he would have brought his A game for holmes. holmes simply did not want to fight page for whatever reason


let me dig up the interview for you

Two things, Brocky.

Firstly, you ignored my questions about whether Tyson and Lewis also dropped belts rather than face #1 contenders. Did you think my questions were rhetorical?

Secondly, what makes you state categorically that Page would have turned up 100% physically and mentally for Holmes? He may have but empirical evidence suggests that even in big fights (a la Witherspoon 1 or Tubbs) he was content to turn up overweight and hope to get by on his natural talents. I thought you were strong on evidence over opinion, mate?

[BrocktonBlockbuster49]

Firstly, you ignored my questions about whether Tyson and Lewis also dropped belts rather than face #1 contenders. Did you think my questions were rhetorical?

yes and no. first off, tyson didnt decline to fight lewis. he simply paid him 4 million to step aside to let another fight happen. lewis could have declined and forced the fight with tyson, but he did not. also tyson was far past his prime in 1996. in the late 1980s, tyson took on all challengers and ducked nobody.

Secondly, what makes you state categorically that Page would have turned up 100% physically and mentally for Holmes?

cause greg page REALLY wanted holmes. he was very motivated to fight holmes. he was defintley going to get himself up for a fight he truelly wanted and for the heavyweight championship of the world.

He may have but empirical evidence suggests that even in big fights (a la Witherspoon 1 or Tubbs) he was content to turn up overweight and hope to get by on his natural talents. I thought you were strong on evidence over opinion, mate?

page REALLY WANTED HOLMES. called him out a number of times. he showed up 100% in the WBC eliminater to fight holmes winning a masterful preformance over snipes. this showed me he wanted to fight holmes. witherspoon and tubbs he simply wasnt motivated for like he was to fight larry.

[Collins2000]

Firstly, you ignored my questions about whether Tyson and Lewis also dropped belts rather than face #1 contenders. Did you think my questions were rhetorical?

yes and no. first off, tyson didnt decline to fight lewis. he simply paid him 4 million to step aside to let another fight happen. lewis could have declined and forced the fight with tyson, but he did not. also tyson was far past his prime in 1996. in the late 1980s, tyson took on all challengers and ducked nobody.

Secondly, what makes you state categorically that Page would have turned up 100% physically and mentally for Holmes?

cause greg page REALLY wanted holmes. he was very motivated to fight holmes. he was defintley going to get himself up for a fight he truelly wanted and for the heavyweight championship of the world.

He may have but empirical evidence suggests that even in big fights (a la Witherspoon 1 or Tubbs) he was content to turn up overweight and hope to get by on his natural talents. I thought you were strong on evidence over opinion, mate?

page REALLY WANTED HOLMES. called him out a number of times. he showed up 100% in the WBC eliminater to fight holmes winning a masterful preformance over snipes. this showed me he wanted to fight holmes. witherspoon and tubbs he simply wasnt motivated for like he was to fight larry.

Not only did Tyson pay Lewis money in order not to have to fight him, he THEN dropped the WBC title after agreeing at the time of paying the money that Lewis would be next. He gave up the WBC title so as not to have to fight Lewis. EXACTLY the same situation as you are whining about when Holmes did it.

Brocky, I know you have a semi hidden agenda here to make Holmes look bad so you can sneak Liston into 3rd spot. I've seen 18 pages of the same shite at ESB. That is you spouting the same stuff there under another Marciano-worshipping monicker.

Like I said before, best you stick to the 1950's from which there are very few surviving fans who can remember the era first hand. That way you can look like you sort of know what you are talking about.

[Cojimar 1945]

Tiger Ted Lowry seems to feel he beat Marciano in their first fight. I don't think he would agree with the assessment that Marciano was undefeated. Still, Marciano did end the vast majority of his fights with a knockout so he was very dominant.

I don't think Marciano's competition was much better than Dempsey's. Fulton, Morris, Willard and Miske are impressive wins. Marciano did fight some of the best contenders around but he also failed to fight a number of guys like Bob Baker, Nino Valdes, Harold Johnson, etc.

[Les Darcy]

Greg Page wasn't a real #1 contender. He was just the WBC's excuse for a #1 contender. Peter Okhelo's the WBC #1 contender now. Would you be too angry if Oleg Maskaev dropped the WBC title in favor of the IBF title simply because he didn't feel like fighting Okhelo?

Okhello is ranked somewhere between 10 and 15 by the WBC, Samuel Peter is the current WBC #1 contender. Maskaev is fighting Okhello because he's the worst out of the WBC top 15 and for some reason he has a voluntary defence (I don't remember Rahman getting any voluntary defences, he would' ve had to fight 3 mandatories in a row if Maskaev hadn't beaten him, sorry excuse my rant).
I'm currently in the process of re-ranking all the divisions using a different method, but going off my old list I would have Holmes #3 behind Louis and Ali. The thing is, if Louis and Ali weren't around, then other fighters who couldn't get by those two would of had much better title reigns and possibly be ranked higher.

[Cojimar 1945]

Liston is definitely not number 3. He did not display much longevity, did not fully clean out the division and his efforts against Ali were pathetic. The debacles against Ali put a really high ranking out of his reach.

[pundit]

Holmes, Johnson, Foreman and Liston are the next best candidates.

[Cojimar 1945]

Page did not establish himself as the number 1 contender because he failed to beat guys like Pinklon Thomas and Tim Witherspoon during that period of time who also were worthy of a shot. Archie Moore did far more to deserve a shot than Page did.