Henry Armstrong vs Ceferino Garcia

HomicideHenry · Post by **HomicideHenry** » 17 Oct 2006, 22:21

Henry Armstrong should have been the first man to hold titles at four different weight classes. When he went to face Middleweight champion Ceferino Garcia the deal was that Armstrong would only win against Garcia if he was able to knock him out. If it went the distance the fight would be determined a draw.

When fight night came to pass, Armstrong beat and battered the Middleweight champion Garcia all over the ring to the final bell. Any real fight fan and judge and historian can tell that it was Armstrong taking the fight to Garcia, certainly out pointing him. The fight was declared a draw among a chorus of boos and cries of injustice.

Henry Armstrong should have been the Middleweight champion and first man to be a four division title holder, maybe if it happened, Armstrong would be considered the greatest fighter pund-per-pound and not Robinson, as Armstrong is generally ranked second behind Sugar Ray.

HomicideHenry · Post by **HomicideHenry** » 17 Oct 2006, 23:26

Garcia wasn't a title claimer. He won the title from Fred Apostoli, who won the title back in 1937 over Marcel Thil and Thil won the title on a DQ back in 1932 over Gorilla Jones.

Gorilla Jones won the VACANT title earlier in 1932 over Oddone Piazza by KO in the 6th round.

Ben Jeby won the NY title, then Lou Brouillard, then Vince Dundee [who also won the NBA title], then Teddy Yarosz won the Pennsylvania title, then Babe Risko wins the NBA and NY title, then Freddie Steele....

Then Fred Apostoli won the TRUE title from Thil...then Al Hostak wins the NBA title, and then Solly Krieger does and THEN Garcia beats Apostoli for the true title.

HomicideHenry · Post by **HomicideHenry** » 17 Oct 2006, 23:43

Maybe so. But that still doesn't change the fact that after Mickey Walker vacated the crown Gorilla Jones won it and then Marcel Thil held on to the crown until 1937 when Apostoli won it from him and then Garcia won it from him.

HomicideHenry · Post by **HomicideHenry** » 18 Oct 2006, 00:49

I was going to post the entire title lineage from 1884 to 1937 but when I was almost done my comp froze and I had to reboot. But if you look at any RING magazine almanac you'll see that there was alot of men during that stretch who vacated the title and it mentions titles of Ohio, NBS, New York and even Australia in the lineage.

Evidentially alot of places and organizations disagreed as to who was the true champion or number one contender and started doing their own tournaments.

I just reviewed CBZ title lineage at MW and you're right in the aspect that Garcia was not a lineal champion. As it states:

1931-1941: Title claimants during this era included Gorilla Jones, Marcel Thil, Ben Jeby, Lou Brouillard, Vince Dundee, Teddy Yarosz, Babe Risko, Freddie Steele, Fred Apostoli, Al Hostak, Solly Krieger, Ceferino Garcia, Ken Overlin, Tony Zale and Billy Soose! Whew!

So I reckon with all the title claimers, it would be like today with the four different organizations each with their own champion but nobody knows who the true champion is until unification is ever forced. So in other words Garcia would be like a man holding one of the present day four belts.

Nonetheless, it was an unfair decision, but it is what the two men agreed upon, and lineal title or not, Armstrong should have been a title claimer at MW as well.

Les Darcy · Post by **Les Darcy** » 18 Oct 2006, 04:02

Is there actually anyone who has won the linear titles at 4 different weight divisions? Off the top of my head there are only guys I can think of who won the linear title at three divisions (Armstrong, Fitzsimmons, Ray Leonard and De La Hoya).

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 18 Oct 2006, 07:01

I think a lot of people consider Armstrong the number one all timer p4p anyway, just the fact that he was fighting for the 160 title or a portion of it speaks for itself...

Les Darcy · Post by **Les Darcy** » 18 Oct 2006, 08:03

Decagon wrote:No, there isn't. Armstrong could've gone for the jr. welterweight title, which was active around the same time period. Barney Ross, who was the welterweight champion before Armstrong, held the lineal title at 135, 140 and 147. Tony Canzoneri won the lineal titles at 126, 135 and 140. Jem Mace won titles at welterweight and heavyweight, which is a singular achievement.

Ahh I forgot about those two (Ross and Canzoneri), the junior titles threw me off a little bit because I wasn't sure how well recognised they were back then.
This is off topic but just out of curiosity, do you count Roy Jones jnr. as the linear champion at any weight division?