MMA

[nickd]

Liddell is able to avoid going to ground a lot because he has one of the best sprawls in the sport. Even when he's on the floor he seems to be able to stand himself back up.

I have a feeling UFC will match Griffin with Rashad Evans to try and establish the next challenger to Liddell if he beats Ortiz again. I cant see how either would beat Liddell though.

The much talked about fight between Liddell and Wanderlei Silva could perhaps be made at some point next year.

[TerribleTerry]

The much talked about fight between Liddell and Wanderlei Silva could perhaps be made at some point next year.

I think that may be dead in the water now.

Initially it looked like Pride used the publicity of a proposed match between the two as a springboard for their own debut promotion in the US.

That fact, coupled with Sliva geting nearly decapitated by a smal heavy in Cro Cop in the OWGP may well cool the anticipation, and therefore money, in that match.

I understand the UFC are really keen to secure Cro Cops sig but I dont know if that will happen anytime soon.

[Grilling Machine]

The list goes on and on...

I never said fighters couldn't switch over to boxing and go on to great things.

More that, while in MMA, they very often suffer from a lack of punch training/coaching.
Boxing isn't properly recognised in its entirety.

My mistake - I should've explained myself a little better.
When I talked of boxing skills, I meant to bring focus to lateral movement and timing.

I'll always stand by the opinion that a sharp boxer copes in MMA with minimal training, while the reverse hasn't been true in too many cases; at least, on the evidence I've seen.

Same with Muay Thai, I've seen some great kickers there, but never a classy puncher.

To be honest Terry, I haven't seen enough MT to make a fully qualified judgement.

To be fair, it would've taken a lot more [for Tyson] than learning a few holds.

I reckon he'd have been good to go in six months.
His attacking style would've stopped all but the foolishly confident from throwing kicks.
On the inside he was as strong as almost anyone.

His height would've been an advantage rather than a sometimes handicap as well.

[nickd]

Absolute rubbish, the stance in MMA is totally different to boxing as you have to defend kicks and takedowns aswell as punches. MMA fighters these days train in boxing, grappling, wrestling, submissions, a boxer would need more than minimal training to be successful in MMA.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Yes, no matter what your boxing skills are like, you cannot rely on them entirely when someone can shoot forward and try a takedown at any moment. Makes it very difficult to plant your feet for beautiful boxing technique when someone can just rip your legs from under you and pound you on the ground.

[Tony Lumb]

Well, Rich Franklin got mullered....

[Lefthookhappy19]

I can hardly remember enjoying a fight so much. A total destruction. A victory for technique over brute force. Rich can hit the weights and have cardio for days, but it doesn't matter. Skill wins the day.

[TerribleTerry]

I can hardly remember enjoying a fight so much. A total destruction. A victory for technique over brute force. Rich can hit the weights and have cardio for days, but it doesn't matter. Skill wins the day.

Franklin really had an over inflated opinion of his own stand up...I cant believe he was so willing to work in the thai clinch against a muay thai specialist like Silva! Absolute madness on his part.

Well, he doesnt look like Jim Carey anymore - one knee in particular spread his nose across his face. I wonder if any of TUF4 middleweights will be relishing exchanging strikes with Silva

[Tony Lumb]

I can hardly remember enjoying a fight so much. A total destruction. A victory for technique over brute force. Rich can hit the weights and have cardio for days, but it doesn't matter. Skill wins the day.

Silva was a monster. To be fair a few people were tipping him beforehand. I was tempted to put a bet on him on Friday. Franklin was about evens and Silva was 6-4. Be interesting to see how Silva does as champ. Anyone see his fight with Ryo Chonan in Pride?

[TerribleTerry]

Anyone see his fight with Ryo Chonan in Pride?

Quite simply the greatest submission of all time.

Effectively a flying heel hook. Truly amazing.

[nickd]

Yeah that submission was unbelievable.

Franklin was crazy getting in the clinch with Silva. I thought he would try and exchange punches or take it to the ground but he really screwed up. No doubts he will be back. Silva doesn't speak any English so difficult for the UFC to market him to the US market. I think Swick will be in there with him next, I really don't think he will beat Silva though.

[TerribleTerry]

Yeah that submission was unbelievable.

Franklin was crazy getting in the clinch with Silva. I thought he would try and exchange punches or take it to the ground but he really screwed up. No doubts he will be back. Silva doesn't speak any English so difficult for the UFC to market him to the US market. I think Swick will be in there with him next, I really don't think he will beat Silva though.

There are rumours that they will bring back the until-now-unfashionable Matt Lindland. He looks scrawny and pale but his wrestling is awesome. It really belies his physique - he could maul the title back into US hands possibly.

Quick Swick is one of my faves but I wouldnt want to see him fed to Silva just yet - man against boy in terms of striking that one..

[nickd]

Yeah that submission was unbelievable.

Franklin was crazy getting in the clinch with Silva. I thought he would try and exchange punches or take it to the ground but he really screwed up. No doubts he will be back. Silva doesn't speak any English so difficult for the UFC to market him to the US market. I think Swick will be in there with him next, I really don't think he will beat Silva though.

There are rumours that they will bring back the until-now-unfashionable Matt Lindland. He looks scrawny and pale but his wrestling is awesome. It really belies his physique - he could maul the title back into US hands possibly.

Quick Swick is one of my faves but I wouldnt want to see him fed to Silva just yet - man against boy in terms of striking that one..

Swick is pretty useful on the ground though but I think its too soon.

Lindland v Silva would be a good fight I wouldn't back against Silva though.

[larry cake]

i have attended one mma show and found it quite entertaining if not a little savage and would definetly consinsider attending another. incedently, the reason why i attended this show was a friend of mine was particapating in the show and the guy in question was a former pro boxer who held the northern area belt and the british masters belt but got a little disillusioned with the sport. i dont think this means mma is on the up and boxing is on the decline but i do think that some people who are thinking of taking up boxing may look towards mma as another option

[ebeneezer]

They said the winner of TUF 4 will get a middleweight title shot.

Barring a disaster it looks like Travis Lutter will be winning TUF and fighting Silva at a future date.
Lutter has decent submissions but shouldn't worry Silva too much.

Have any of you seen Silva's fight with Daiju Takase froma few years back in PRIDE?
Silva was taken down and controlled with ease and then triangle choked.

The fight may have been just a one off bad night for Anderson but I don't think he fights well off the bottom. Especially with a opponent as strong as Linland on him.

[ebeneezer]

Yeah that submission was unbelievable.

Franklin was crazy getting in the clinch with Silva. I thought he would try and exchange punches or take it to the ground but he really screwed up. No doubts he will be back. Silva doesn't speak any English so difficult for the UFC to market him to the US market. I think Swick will be in there with him next, I really don't think he will beat Silva though.

There are rumours that they will bring back the until-now-unfashionable Matt Lindland. He looks scrawny and pale but his wrestling is awesome. It really belies his physique - he could maul the title back into US hands possibly.

Quick Swick is one of my faves but I wouldnt want to see him fed to Silva just yet - man against boy in terms of striking that one..

Matt out muscled Quinton Jackson at various points in their fight a few months back.
Which is really saying something seeing as Jackson is easily one of the strongest guys at LHW.

Linland is so strong that he managed to knock himself out in his first fight with Falaniko Vitale

[nickd]

Silva has come on leaps and bounds since that loss 3 years ago. I think he'll be a very difficult guy to beat.

[Lefthookhappy19]

Takase sucks as a mma fighter in general, but he is/was one of the best grapplers in Japan. He almost subbed Carlos Newton. Anderson is way different these days anyhow. He's totally grown as a fighter.

Nog wouldn't have gave him his blackbelt if he didn't deserve it. It would look very bad for him as a teacher if he got subbed. He'll do just fine.

[jamesmcdonnell]

what channel is the ultimate fighter on?

[nickd]

Bravo.

[TerribleTerry]

what channel is the ultimate fighter on?

You are coming in a bit late in the day for TUF4 James - there are maybe 3 shows left but its good stuff..

Bravo have recently reshown TUF1 & 2 so hopefully they continue this trend as they make good viewing.

[MERC]

Do you guys get SPIKE T.V in England... a lot of MMA is on that

[nfc90210]

An interesting note regarding the UFC pay scale. Dave Meltzer, who writes the “Wrestling Observer” newsletter and is respected both in pro-wrestling and MMA worlds as a very credible source reported in his 16th October issue that the UFC main eventers are getting, on the smaller UFC PPVs, $1 each from every PPV buy, and, on the bigger shows, $2.50 off every PPV. That is, of course, in addition to their downside guarantees.

So for instance, Ortiz/Shamrock II did, 775,000 buys on PPV. That was the first reported figure though so the buy rate was probably higher than that. All PPV's rise when the final buy rate comes in. The reason, I think, for that is that the originally reported number doesn't factor in late buys.

For instance, for the WWF's big Wrestlemania PPV this year the first number was 564,000 buys while the final figure was 637,000 buys.

Boxing is still where the money is but the pay is rising in MMA.

The early UFC's made money, but then the perception that it was little more than a bloodsport, and the campaign against it by US senator John McCain resulted in it being dropped off most cable systems. In the US, unlike the UK, cable represents the majority of the PPV universe. Losing access to most of the PPV universe really hurt the UFC

When Zuffa bought the UFC off SEG it was losing money. It then continued to lose a lot of money. Recently, the UFC has been making been making big money, but Zuffa are still to recoup the money they lost initially keeping the UFC afloat.

There is a lot of money floating around now in MMA. There are a lot start up groups with lots of money and big time dreams. Most will lose money and fail. They will though have the effect of causing salaries for the lower card guys especially to rise. It will be years before the money resembles anything in big time boxing though.

Also, there is a ton of money in sponsorships for MMA fighters. At one stage, I don't know about now, Josh Koscheck who's, at this moment, a UFC mid=carder was supposedly making $5,000 a week from sponsorships alone. What the big stars are making in terms of sponsorship is anyone's guess but it's probably big.

Also, a note regarding the recent Ortiz/Shamrock III TV special, which aired on Spike TV in the US a few weeks ago.

Notes on last night's Tito vs. Ken III rating:

- Fight did a 9.7 rating in males 25-34
- Fight did an 8.0 rating in males 18-34
- Show drew 4.2 million viewers overall, crushing Smackdown's CW debut
- Fight did 5.7 million viewers, more than watched Raw or Smackdown last week
- Show drew more 18-34 men than any show on broadcast OR cable all day
- Highest rating for a night in males 18-34 and 18-49 in Spike history
- Broke the spike.tv website one-day unique viewers record
- Broke the old UFC quarter hour viewership record by 2 million viewers

Also recently, in the "Sports Business Journal", Ross Greenberg, the president of HBO sports, said, "We're measuring everyday and talking to Dana White and Uri Emanuel, who is representing the UFC. At some point we hope to look hard and see if there's a place within the HBO family to do some UFC events."

The best place I have found for discussing MMA online is a forum entitled, “Them's Fighting Words” which is a sub forum of the Death Valley Driver forums.

http://board.deathvalleydriver.com/inde ... howforum=7

[nickd]

The best submission I have ever seen, Chonan on Anderson Silva.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?search=&mo ... 5QgIoBKJxM

[jamesmcdonnell]

An interesting note regarding the UFC pay scale. Dave Meltzer, who writes the “Wrestling Observer” newsletter and is respected both in pro-wrestling and MMA worlds as a very credible source reported in his 16th October issue that the UFC main eventers are getting, on the smaller UFC PPVs, $1 each from every PPV buy, and, on the bigger shows, $2.50 off every PPV. That is, of course, in addition to their downside guarantees.

So for instance, Ortiz/Shamrock II did, 775,000 buys on PPV. That was the first reported figure though so the buy rate was probably higher than that. All PPV's rise when the final buy rate comes in. The reason, I think, for that is that the originally reported number doesn't factor in late buys.

For instance, for the WWF's big Wrestlemania PPV this year the first number was 564,000 buys while the final figure was 637,000 buys.

Boxing is still where the money is but the pay is rising in MMA.

The early UFC's made money, but then the perception that it was little more than a bloodsport, and the campaign against it by US senator John McCain resulted in it being dropped off most cable systems. In the US, unlike the UK, cable represents the majority of the PPV universe. Losing access to most of the PPV universe really hurt the UFC

When Zuffa bought the UFC off SEG it was losing money. It then continued to lose a lot of money. Recently, the UFC has been making been making big money, but Zuffa are still to recoup the money they lost initially keeping the UFC afloat.

There is a lot of money floating around now in MMA. There are a lot start up groups with lots of money and big time dreams. Most will lose money and fail. They will though have the effect of causing salaries for the lower card guys especially to rise. It will be years before the money resembles anything in big time boxing though.

Also, there is a ton of money in sponsorships for MMA fighters. At one stage, I don't know about now, Josh Koscheck who's, at this moment, a UFC mid=carder was supposedly making $5,000 a week from sponsorships alone. What the big stars are making in terms of sponsorship is anyone's guess but it's probably big.

Also, a note regarding the recent Ortiz/Shamrock III TV special, which aired on Spike TV in the US a few weeks ago.

Notes on last night's Tito vs. Ken III rating:

- Fight did a 9.7 rating in males 25-34
- Fight did an 8.0 rating in males 18-34
- Show drew 4.2 million viewers overall, crushing Smackdown's CW debut
- Fight did 5.7 million viewers, more than watched Raw or Smackdown last week
- Show drew more 18-34 men than any show on broadcast OR cable all day
- Highest rating for a night in males 18-34 and 18-49 in Spike history
- Broke the spike.tv website one-day unique viewers record
- Broke the old UFC quarter hour viewership record by 2 million viewers

Also recently, in the "Sports Business Journal", Ross Greenberg, the president of HBO sports, said, "We're measuring everyday and talking to Dana White and Uri Emanuel, who is representing the UFC. At some point we hope to look hard and see if there's a place within the HBO family to do some UFC events."

The best place I have found for discussing MMA online is a forum entitled, “Them's Fighting Words” which is a sub forum of the Death Valley Driver forums.

http://board.deathvalleydriver.com/inde ... howforum=7

Unless the format changes, it is possible that there will never be stars in UFC as there are in boxing, and therefore the shows will remain very profitable. Unlike boxing most of the fights tend to be brief and the end, when it comes is sudden, and not always dramatic in the same way a ko punch is.

It is possible though that in order to reach a wider and wider audience, the sport will begin to resemble stand up fighting forms more, and that the format will evolve into more shorter rounds, and less time on the matt.

After all, boxing took a couple of hundred of years to evolve to it's present state, and in it's earlier forms was more like MMA with grappling, throws and striking on the ground allowed before they prettied it up for more mass appeal.