Calzaghe Should Fight Mundine

lvlarc · Post by **lvlarc** » 18 Oct 2006, 13:26

Mundine is overrated.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 18 Oct 2006, 14:16

lvlarc_uk wrote:Mundine is overrated.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1685000/i ... ine300.jpg

mattyp151 · Post by **mattyp151** » 18 Oct 2006, 14:22

nickd wrote:
lvlarc_uk wrote:Mundine is overrated.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1685000/i ... ine300.jpg

Had he gotten that fight in 2 more years, Ottke would have a loss. Mundine looked great until the 9th and 10th of that fight, when experience kicked in for Ottke and he found a way to beat Mundine.

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 18 Oct 2006, 14:25

nickd wrote:
lvlarc_uk wrote:Mundine is overrated.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1685000/i ... ine300.jpg

No shame in losing to the #1 super-middleweight of his era....

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 18 Oct 2006, 14:28

Mattyp151 wrote:
nickd wrote:
lvlarc_uk wrote:Mundine is overrated.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1685000/i ... ine300.jpg
Had he gotten that fight in 2 more years, Ottke would have a loss. Mundine looked great until the 9th and 10th of that fight, when experience kicked in for Ottke and he found a way to beat Mundine.

I see your point, but getting clean KO'd by Ottke is embarassing!

lvlarc · Post by **lvlarc** » 18 Oct 2006, 14:30

That's fact issit. Hmm where have I heard that before

Fact is, just more than 2 years later, he was busy getting beat by Siaca for christ sake!

Fact is Mundine got KTFO by a guy with 6 total KO's in a career spanning 7 years.

mattyp151 · Post by **mattyp151** » 18 Oct 2006, 14:31

nickd wrote:
Mattyp151 wrote:
nickd wrote:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1685000/i ... ine300.jpg
Had he gotten that fight in 2 more years, Ottke would have a loss. Mundine looked great until the 9th and 10th of that fight, when experience kicked in for Ottke and he found a way to beat Mundine.
I see your point, but getting clean KO'd by Ottke is embarassing!

In your tenth fight as a pro, and knowing the way Ottke operated, not at all. I'd actually take a late KO loss better than losing to him by decision. Ottke only came out with an attitude when he was forced to, and was generally a controlled boxer. However, there's a reason he was as good as he was (besides German judges late in his career) and his ability to fight instead of box when need be was part of it.

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 18 Oct 2006, 14:33

nickd wrote: I see your point, but getting clean KO'd by Ottke is embarassing!

I wouldn't know why. Ottke rarely sat behind his punches, hence he didn't develop KO power. It didn't fit his style, as he fought on his toes. Mundine forced Ottke to change trategy though -- baby 10 fight Mundine had outboxed Ottke, hence Ottke had no choice but to open up and brawl. And when Ottke put his body behind his punches they carried weight too. If you get a chance, watch Ottke vs. Joe Gatti. Rarely seen a more brutal knockout.

steve689 · Post by **steve689** » 18 Oct 2006, 15:45

I would tend to agree there Pundit and i have heard this theory off other respected observers, Ottke relied less on power as his career developed and he adopted a successful hit and move style or often just a move style without hitting!

This proved extremely sueccessful for him winning in Germany time and again, when he did stand and load up his shots he showed he could hit more respectably than people thought.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 18 Oct 2006, 15:51

pundit wrote:
nickd wrote: I see your point, but getting clean KO'd by Ottke is embarassing!
I wouldn't know why. Ottke rarely sat behind his punches, hence he didn't develop KO power. It didn't fit his style, as he fought on his toes. Mundine forced Ottke to change trategy though -- baby 10 fight Mundine had outboxed Ottke, hence Ottke had no choice but to open up and brawl. And when Ottke put his body behind his punches they carried weight too. If you get a chance, watch Ottke vs. Joe Gatti. Rarely seen a more brutal knockout.

I remember, Mundine tried to finish Ottke. Ottke lined up his right hand. In the 10th, he hit Mundine, as Mundine was coming toward him. Mundine really gave him the opening by coming forward. So when Ottke threw the right to the temple, the power was doubled.

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 18 Oct 2006, 16:01

viciousmaussa wrote:
pundit wrote:
nickd wrote: I see your point, but getting clean KO'd by Ottke is embarassing!
I wouldn't know why. Ottke rarely sat behind his punches, hence he didn't develop KO power. It didn't fit his style, as he fought on his toes. Mundine forced Ottke to change trategy though -- baby 10 fight Mundine had outboxed Ottke, hence Ottke had no choice but to open up and brawl. And when Ottke put his body behind his punches they carried weight too. If you get a chance, watch Ottke vs. Joe Gatti. Rarely seen a more brutal knockout.
I remember, Mundine tried to finish Ottke. Ottke lined up his right hand. In the 10th, he hit Mundine, as Mundine was coming toward him. Mundine really gave him the opening by coming forward. So when Ottke threw the right to the temple, the power was doubled.

I remember that Mundien tried to finish Ottke in the 9th instead of continuing to outbox him. Ottke turned things around, and at the end of the 9th hurt Mundine. The Mundine that went into the 10th was already a beaten boxer.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 18 Oct 2006, 16:05

Anyhow, Mundine has got his head together. That win over Green was very impressive. Kessler-Mundine II will be interesting.

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 18 Oct 2006, 16:13

viciousmaussa wrote:Anyhow, Mundine has got his head together. That win over Green was very impressive. Kessler-Mundine II will be interesting.

Mundine is extremely gifted, probably the most gifted fighter at 168. However, Kessler has his number.

mattyp151 · Post by **mattyp151** » 18 Oct 2006, 16:16

pundit wrote:
viciousmaussa wrote:Anyhow, Mundine has got his head together. That win over Green was very impressive. Kessler-Mundine II will be interesting.
Mundine is extremely gifted, probably the most gifted fighter at 168. However, Kessler has his number.

He would best be compared to Zab Judah...unlimited amounts of talent, but lacks between the ears. He also thinks far too highly of himself at times, like his american counterpart.

He also doesn't throw stools.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 18 Oct 2006, 16:21

Mattyp151 wrote:
pundit wrote:
viciousmaussa wrote:Anyhow, Mundine has got his head together. That win over Green was very impressive. Kessler-Mundine II will be interesting.
Mundine is extremely gifted, probably the most gifted fighter at 168. However, Kessler has his number.
He would best be compared to Zab Judah...unlimited amounts of talent, but lacks between the ears. He also thinks far too highly of himself at times, like his american counterpart.

He also doesn't throw stools.

He's a funny bloke though, always got something amusing to say. I think while James Toney is getting tiresome, Mundine is better to listen to. I remember at the Ottke pre fight presser. He said Ottke "Hits like a woman". He ripped Ottke. Then Ottke's sparring partner Jerry Elliott got up and tried to start a fight with Mundine; I enjoyed that.

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 18 Oct 2006, 16:22

Mattyp151 wrote:
pundit wrote:
viciousmaussa wrote:Anyhow, Mundine has got his head together. That win over Green was very impressive. Kessler-Mundine II will be interesting.
Mundine is extremely gifted, probably the most gifted fighter at 168. However, Kessler has his number.
He would best be compared to Zab Judah...unlimited amounts of talent, but lacks between the ears. He also thinks far too highly of himself at times, like his american counterpart.

He also doesn't throw stools.

Good comparison.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 19 Oct 2006, 04:58

Except Judah's chin is worse!

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 19 Oct 2006, 05:04

Does anybody know what the scorecards were at the time of the stoppage, It would be interesting to see who was ahead.

tcwilliams · Post by **tcwilliams** » 19 Oct 2006, 05:53

Mundine was an idiot for taking that fight he was not ready and ran out of gas, Ottke trainer new it as well, this loved mundine for some reason, I think he like his natural ability. I think now Mundine beats everybody at 168 except Kessler, who I think mundine still has a chnce because of his speed.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 19 Oct 2006, 07:29

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Does anybody know what the scorecards were at the time of the stoppage, It would be interesting to see who was ahead.

Can't remember exact scores but Ottke was ahead surprise surprise. By 2 points or so I think off the top of my head.

Sweet P · Post by **Sweet P** » 20 Oct 2006, 05:07

nickd wrote:
Mattyp151 wrote:
nickd wrote:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1685000/i ... ine300.jpg
Had he gotten that fight in 2 more years, Ottke would have a loss. Mundine looked great until the 9th and 10th of that fight, when experience kicked in for Ottke and he found a way to beat Mundine.
I see your point, but getting clean KO'd by Ottke is embarassing!

That was his 11th fight including amature, I think to be beating the undefeated champion for 9 rounds is pretty damn good, I don't think any other fighter could have done the same.

Sweet P · Post by **Sweet P** » 20 Oct 2006, 05:09

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Does anybody know what the scorecards were at the time of the stoppage, It would be interesting to see who was ahead.

I think it was close but there is no way Ottke had won more than 1-2 rounds until the KO.

fried bread · Post by **fried bread** » 20 Oct 2006, 06:17

I felt Ottke had at least 3 or 4 good rounds. He wasn't being shut out, though he was a bit outsped & outgunned for the most.

Deram · Post by **Deram** » 20 Oct 2006, 07:52

I agree. If Calzaghe doesn't want Kessler - he should at least fight a real boxer - such as Bute, Andrade or Mundine, not some old, shot "name".

Although that is probably what will happen. A Tito, Joppy or another american stiff.

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 20 Oct 2006, 09:40

Ben Keilty wrote:
jamesmcdonnell wrote:Does anybody know what the scorecards were at the time of the stoppage, It would be interesting to see who was ahead.
I think it was close but there is no way Ottke had won more than 1-2 rounds until the KO.

The first 6 rounds were hard to score, very tactical, very little punches thrown. Mundine caught Ottke off-guard, instead of running at him and allowing Ottke to coutnerpunch he ran away from him, trying to counterpunch himself. Ottke didn't quite know what to do. The first 6 rounds could have been scored in many ways, but 3-3 would perhaps seem most adequate.

Mundine stepped up the pace in the 7th and 8th and clearly won them. He also should have been credited for a knockdown in the 8th that was ruled a slip. Then Ottke changed tactics, threw caution to the wind and started brawling, winning the 9th. Mundine also got a point deduced at some point I don't remember for what. So over all I had the score even going into the 10th, although with a different ref I may have had Mundine two rounds up.

Anyway, Ottke was clearly the better man at the time of the KO as Mundine ran out of gas. So even without the knockdown one has to assume that Ottke would have closed out the fight. Still, an impressive performance by the youngster. Noone had managed to outbox prime Ottke in this way prior to that fight.

P