Calzaghe Should Fight Mundine

[jamesmcdonnell]

Robin Reid was clearly outboxing Ottke (thought not a prime version, but then Reid was past his best himself), for the first 6 rounds of their fight, Ottke landed about 2 shots in the first 6 rounds, yet mysteriously, Reid was four rounds down going into the 7th.

[pundit]

Robin Reid was clearly outboxing Ottke (thought not a prime version, but then Reid was past his best himself), for the first 6 rounds of their fight, Ottke landed about 2 shots in the first 6 rounds, yet mysteriously, Reid was four rounds down going into the 7th.

Two old, past-their prime men fighting an ugly, slow fight, with the ref spoiling what was left to be spoiled.

Ottke-Reid in 1999 would have been a cracker.

[Taki...]

Robin Reid was clearly outboxing Ottke (thought not a prime version, but then Reid was past his best himself), for the first 6 rounds of their fight, Ottke landed about 2 shots in the first 6 rounds, yet mysteriously, Reid was four rounds down going into the 7th.

Two old, past-their prime men fighting an ugly, slow fight, with the ref spoiling what was left to be spoiled.

Ottke-Reid in 1999 would have been a cracker.

The ref spoiled it for ONE fighter and clearly gave the other every possible advantage he could (including discounting a clear KD). Ottke was as much a disgrace as the ref with his whining (about being hit, legally) and constant pleading looks.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Robin Reid was clearly outboxing Ottke (thought not a prime version, but then Reid was past his best himself), for the first 6 rounds of their fight, Ottke landed about 2 shots in the first 6 rounds, yet mysteriously, Reid was four rounds down going into the 7th.

Two old, past-their prime men fighting an ugly, slow fight, with the ref spoiling what was left to be spoiled.

Ottke-Reid in 1999 would have been a cracker.

I'd have picked Reid to upset Ottke in their respective primes. Ottke never really liked counterpunchers, and Reid had a pretty fair dig on him too. May have played much like Reid against Calzaghe. Rob had good timing back then, but he was really boxing Ottke's head off until the ref basically made it clear that if he carried on winning, he would be DQ'd.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Robin Reid was clearly outboxing Ottke (thought not a prime version, but then Reid was past his best himself), for the first 6 rounds of their fight, Ottke landed about 2 shots in the first 6 rounds, yet mysteriously, Reid was four rounds down going into the 7th.

Two old, past-their prime men fighting an ugly, slow fight, with the ref spoiling what was left to be spoiled.

Ottke-Reid in 1999 would have been a cracker.

The ref spoiled it for ONE fighter and clearly gave the other every possible advantage he could (including discounting a clear KD). Ottke was as much a disgrace as the ref with his whining (about being hit, legally) and constant pleading looks.

Yes, Ottke's conduct during that fight was truly despicable, he really out to have been ashamed of himself. The referee was so clearly instructed to give Ottke every conceivable chance to win as to be utterly transparent.

The most flagrant thing about the fight though, was the way the scorecards tallied. After about round 7, Reid did virtually nothing (trainer Hughes said that was because he didn't want his purse suspended for being DQ'd) and yet they gave Reid four of those rounds! The first six where Ottke did nothing, they gave him four of those rounds. If ever a fight had the books cooked, then that was it because those scorecards made no sense whatsoever. It was like they thought, "well, better make this look a bit more even, let's give robin a few near the end."

Utterly disgraceful fight in every conceivable way.

I actually wish Reid had just turned and walked out of the ring in disgust.

[Taki...]

Two old, past-their prime men fighting an ugly, slow fight, with the ref spoiling what was left to be spoiled.

Ottke-Reid in 1999 would have been a cracker.

The ref spoiled it for ONE fighter and clearly gave the other every possible advantage he could (including discounting a clear KD). Ottke was as much a disgrace as the ref with his whining (about being hit, legally) and constant pleading looks.

Yes, Ottke's conduct during that fight was truly despicable, he really out to have been ashamed of himself. The referee was so clearly instructed to give Ottke every conceivable chance to win as to be utterly transparent.

The most flagrant thing about the fight though, was the way the scorecards tallied. After about round 7, Reid did virtually nothing (trainer Hughes said that was because he didn't want his purse suspended for being DQ'd) and yet they gave Reid four of those rounds! The first six where Ottke did nothing, they gave him four of those rounds. If ever a fight had the books cooked, then that was it because those scorecards made no sense whatsoever. It was like they thought, "well, better make this look a bit more even, let's give robin a few near the end."

Utterly disgraceful fight in every conceivable way.

I actually wish Reid had just turned and walked out of the ring in disgust.

I remember Reid being pretty distraught in the ring (he more or less gave up because of the biased refereeing in the later rounds). It does stick in my mind as one of the most disgraceful things I've ever seen in a boxing ring. It also just goes to show how pathetic the ABC's are that nothing was done about any of it.

[steve689]

Does anybody know what the scorecards were at the time of the stoppage, It would be interesting to see who was ahead.

I asked this question a while back and was told ottke was ahead on all cards. Disgraceful, even though Mundine was deducted 2 points (?) for a headbutt he was Boxing Sven's ears off. The Reid fight was baffling but i believe it was scored on the "token scoring system" look at the totals and Reid was being given rounds he didn't win and so was Ottke. All set up for a standard points win for the German, 115-113 etc etc

[jamesmcdonnell]

Yes, that sealed it for me. I don't believe there is much outright corruption in boxing, but on that occasion it is impossible

Even with the deductions I had Reid winning that clearly by 2 rounds. I think I gave him the first 5 a share of the 6th I think it was, (absolutely uniquivocaly as Ottke did ABSOLUTELY fornicate ALL!) and 2 of the last rounds. Something like that anyhoo.

I think they knew Ottke was pretty washed up, and instructed Tillerman to do everything in his power to prevent his losing. I also think they got to the judges somehow, because I've never seen so obvious a case of as you say 'token scoring.'

Reid did bollock all for most of the second half of the fight, he pretty much gave up, but even then managed to nick a couple due to Ottke being so inactive, yet they were giving him rounds like they were going out of fashion.

And people wonder why germany gets a bad rep, that was an abysmal sight.

[Sweet P]

Yes, that sealed it for me. I don't believe there is much outright corruption in boxing, but on that occasion it is impossible

Even with the deductions I had Reid winning that clearly by 2 rounds. I think I gave him the first 5 a share of the 6th I think it was, (absolutely uniquivocaly as Ottke did ABSOLUTELY smeg ALL!) and 2 of the last rounds. Something like that anyhoo.

I think they knew Ottke was pretty washed up, and instructed Tillerman to do everything in his power to prevent his losing. I also think they got to the judges somehow, because I've never seen so obvious a case of as you say 'token scoring.'

Reid did bollock all for most of the second half of the fight, he pretty much gave up, but even then managed to nick a couple due to Ottke being so inactive, yet they were giving him rounds like they were going out of fashion.

And people wonder why germany gets a bad rep, that was an abysmal sight.

I have to agree James, It seemed in that fight that Ried got warned for hitting him llegally, I think it would have played with his head thats why he seemed so diffrent in the second half of the fight. I scored it for Ried by a round or 2.
This sort of thing happens every weekend all over trhe world and until there is some sort of review panel that watches all conroversiol fights and penalizes refs and judges it is going to keep on happening.

[pundit]

Robin Reid was clearly outboxing Ottke (thought not a prime version, but then Reid was past his best himself), for the first 6 rounds of their fight, Ottke landed about 2 shots in the first 6 rounds, yet mysteriously, Reid was four rounds down going into the 7th.

Two old, past-their prime men fighting an ugly, slow fight, with the ref spoiling what was left to be spoiled.

Ottke-Reid in 1999 would have been a cracker.

I'd have picked Reid to upset Ottke in their respective primes. Ottke never really liked counterpunchers, and Reid had a pretty fair dig on him too. May have played much like Reid against Calzaghe.

Quite possible; you're right about Ottke disliking opponents who tried to beat him at this own game. Like Calzaghe he prefered brawlers who took the fight to him. In any, Ottke Reid in 1999 is an intreaguing matchup.

Ottke Reid in 2003 though was pretty irrelevant, if you ask me. Ottke wasn't even top 5 any more at that time. After this fight he knew himself that it was over, and he duly retired.

Strangely, THIS is when Calzaghe got brave and started him out...

[Autobarn]

Now is the time for Calzaghe & Warren to get brave. They couldn't have saved it for a better time.


Now, the super middle division is great & there is Kessler. A GENUINE peer, in his prime. Kessler is something special.

At light heavyweight, things are very exciting. Particularly with Adamek & briggs at the top, Woods & Johnson not too far behind, etc.

The top ten of each division is filled with class.

[Taki...]

Calzaghe would have been stupid to fight Ottke in Germany, as evidenced on numerous occasions by Ottke's handpicked judges. I'd bet my left bollock that if Reid had sparked Ottke he'd of been DQ'd for something.

[Collins2000]

Yes, that sealed it for me. I don't believe there is much outright corruption in boxing, but on that occasion it is impossible

Even with the deductions I had Reid winning that clearly by 2 rounds. I think I gave him the first 5 a share of the 6th I think it was, (absolutely uniquivocaly as Ottke did ABSOLUTELY smeg ALL!) and 2 of the last rounds. Something like that anyhoo.

I think they knew Ottke was pretty washed up, and instructed Tillerman to do everything in his power to prevent his losing. I also think they got to the judges somehow, because I've never seen so obvious a case of as you say 'token scoring.'

Reid did bollock all for most of the second half of the fight, he pretty much gave up, but even then managed to nick a couple due to Ottke being so inactive, yet they were giving him rounds like they were going out of fashion.

And people wonder why germany gets a bad rep, that was an abysmal sight.

I have to agree James, It seemed in that fight that Ried got warned for hitting him llegally, I think it would have played with his head thats why he seemed so diffrent in the second half of the fight. I scored it for Ried by a round or 2.
This sort of thing happens every weekend all over trhe world and until there is some sort of review panel that watches all conroversiol fights and penalizes refs and judges it is going to keep on happening.

Good points, Ben.

They ought to also stop the promoters wining and dining the officials - You can't tell me that people don't end up feeling obliged to them in some way even if only subconsciously.

The bloke that refereed that fight should never be allowed in a ring again; it was a fekkin disgrace, even by continental standards.