Would Tyson ever be able to "do a Foreman"

bigynzing · Post by **bigynzing** » 21 Oct 2006, 11:39

What do you think????...Personally..i think Mike might have to give the ganja a rest for a couple of years....

josh fg · Post by **josh fg** » 21 Oct 2006, 11:43

Heard the shows he has been doing aint so great, bit of a debate on it on the amrican forum. Apparently he is gassed after 4 rounds at two and a half mins :S Hope he makes money to pay off his debts then goes into media or training

TerribleTerry · Post by **TerribleTerry** » 21 Oct 2006, 11:43

Definitely no.

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 21 Oct 2006, 11:47

bigynzing wrote:What do you think????...Personally..i think Mike might have to give the ganja a rest for a couple of years....

No. You need to have your head sorted out for that.

JimJim · Post by **JimJim** » 21 Oct 2006, 12:03

I think its inevitable that he will try. These four round exhibitions are a fun, risk-free diversion for him (compared to proper bouts) and once he's had half a dozen or so under his belt, and sharpened up his remaining skills and power, I think the inevitable will happen.

Valuev makes his 3rd defence in January, vs tba, and if succesful he'll advance to 46-0. Providing he keeps winning, I can see massive bouts as he tries to get to 49-0, and 50-0, and for that, you need marquee opponents...... enter Tyson, who by then might have strung together a handful of wins over handpicked opponents.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 21 Oct 2006, 12:35

If Tyson had Foreman's mentality then no doubt. Foreman said he eat alot of Burgers during his second coming, but he also was obviously putting in the hours - cause his stamina and punch resistance was great in his comeback.

He hasn't got the mentality though and its a bit of a shame. Out of the three comebacking (well, say Tyson does announce a formal comeback) Heavyweight greats from the 90's (Holyfield, Bowe and Tyson). Its Tyson who has the most left to offer, but as he doesn't put in the hours and cannot do a 6 weeks training camp - so you'd have to say Holyfield is most likely of the 3 to do a Foreman.

With Tyson MUCH of the physical tools are there - He might not be as quick handed as he was, but still fast enough. His power is there. Its just mainly his desire, footspeed (not footwork) and stamina that are piss poor. For me, two of these could be vastly improved if he worked out and got into decent shape.

Yes, its pretty poor to see him gassing in a sparring session with Sanders, and using a low punch output from the start. However, he was a "career" heaviest weight, and we know how bad he was at anything above 225 lbs.

However, what I have said in this post I believe are the reasons why there is STILL intrigue with his career and the reason why a sparring session is being put forward as a PPV.

Andy Mac · Post by **Andy Mac** » 21 Oct 2006, 12:46

I reckon he can equal Big George in the burger munching stakes, yeah.

bigynzing · Post by **bigynzing** » 21 Oct 2006, 13:27

stujones wrote:If Tyson had Foreman's mentality then no doubt. Foreman said he eat alot of Burgers during his second coming, but he also was obviously putting in the hours - cause his stamina and punch resistance was great in his comeback.

He hasn't got the mentality though and its a bit of a shame. Out of the three comebacking (well, say Tyson does announce a formal comeback) Heavyweight greats from the 90's (Holyfield, Bowe and Tyson). Its Tyson who has the most left to offer, but as he doesn't put in the hours and cannot do a 6 weeks training camp - so you'd have to say Holyfield is most likely of the 3 to do a Foreman.

With Tyson MUCH of the physical tools are there - He might not be as quick handed as he was, but still fast enough. His power is there. Its just mainly his desire, footspeed (not footwork) and stamina that are piss poor. For me, two of these could be vastly improved if he worked out and got into decent shape.

Yes, its pretty poor to see him gassing in a sparring session with Sanders, and using a low punch output from the start. However, he was a "career" heaviest weight, and we know how bad he was at anything above 225 lbs.

However, what I have said in this post I believe are the reasons why there is STILL intrigue with his career and the reason why a sparring session is being put forward as a PPV.

Agree with pretty much everything you said.

His low output could be sorted with better punch selection..and maybe getting back to his jab..coupled with a high guard and obvious stamina improvement(staying off the green...lots of circuit training)..in this age of truly crappy heavys..maybe...like you said Stu....Tyson would have to get below 225lbs....
but i think Tysons love of the sport has vanished...not helped because of the constant shit he gets.and utter mistrust of everyone.

josh fg · Post by **josh fg** » 22 Oct 2006, 19:13

One of the problems was his inactivity in the last few years of his carrer as an individual who went up in weight easy he needed to be in near constant training and would have benifited from the sharpness regular action gives you. I remember when lewis beat him the first thing he mentioned was dissiplin and that was the key lewis had it tyson didn't.

What is going on with Bowe's come back has it gone away. The problem with Hollyfield is that he has had too many big hits from people in a natural weight devision above him which has damaged his reflexes even though he dose have the mentality.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 22 Oct 2006, 20:21

Apparently this is serious, but Tom Jones is being lined up as a future opponent on this world tour.

Its not unusual.... yes it bloody well is.

josh fg · Post by **josh fg** » 22 Oct 2006, 20:45

He was trying to line up female boxers as opponents too! mad mad mad. What happened to the stories about K1 did he figure he doesn't have the stamina?

lutonpete · Post by **lutonpete** » 23 Oct 2006, 00:54

Tyson was always undisciplined, even going back to the days of the first Bruno fight. His preperation was appaling, however he was still good enough to deal with the contenders in the late 80's.

He is now totally mentally shot and the slightest resistance is enough to make him quit.

In the second Holyfield fight he fouled out because he knew that Evander would fight him given the chance.

Against McBride he just quit and sat on his rear like a child in the Nursery.

These 4 rounders will propbably mean that he trains better than he has in years but he will always be the proverbial bully that can dish it out but not recieve it.

An advantage that Foreman has was that he was smart. He knew he could no longer be a destructive punching machine and therefore he paced himself. This resulted in a number of distance fights.

I do not believe that Tyson is smart enough or physically conditioned enough to do that.

Nels · Post by **Nels** » 23 Oct 2006, 07:28

What everbody else has said.

Plus:

Mike was a short, walk-in heavy. They don't have long careers -- for obvious reasons.

Foreman was what, 6' 4" or something (where's Kovit when you need him!)? He had the physical size/tools to adapt to a different style, and his heavy jab negated the speed defecit he faced against much younger guys. Tyson's jab whilst solid was always a little bit "flicky"; Foreman's was like a plank going through a window (who said that?)...

So: a resounding big fat "no".

Raff The Frenchman · Post by **Raff The Frenchman** » 23 Oct 2006, 07:46

nop: Foreman was already a very big heavyweight, he relied on his crude power to knock everyone out...he was a slow, super hard hitting HW...
Tyson is short, cant rely on his size, and most of his power relied on his SPEED, Tyson had extraordinary handspeed, which he LOST by getting older and older...Foreman, even at 45, had still a huge size and a huge power...

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 23 Oct 2006, 10:02

Nels wrote:What everbody else has said.

Plus:

Mike was a short, walk-in heavy. They don't have long careers -- for obvious reasons.

Foreman was what, 6' 4" or something (where's Kovit when you need him!)? He had the physical size/tools to adapt to a different style, and his heavy jab negated the speed defecit he faced against much younger guys. Tyson's jab whilst solid was always a little bit "flicky"; Foreman's was like a plank going through a window (who said that?)...

So: a resounding big fat "no".

Foreman was actually in many ways a better fighter second time around. He developed a crafty guard, and used patience and pacing that he never had in his first career.

He also hadn't taken much punishment, and still had hunger to prove a point after having ended his first career so badly.

Foreman was actually 6' 5 on his return, and despite being over weight, was an absolute beast of a man. How on earth he ever came in so light in his first career! He said his trainer (Dick Saddler?) used to bring him into fights weight drained and dehydrated because of unconventional training methods.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 23 Oct 2006, 10:52

Why did his first trainer make him dehydrated and drained?

Heard he was robbed against Shannon Briggs but not seen the fight so ain't sure.

Andy Mac · Post by **Andy Mac** » 23 Oct 2006, 11:18

lutonpete wrote:Tyson was always undisciplined, even going back to the days of the first Bruno fight. His preperation was appaling, however he was still good enough to deal with the contenders in the late 80's.

He is now totally mentally shot and the slightest resistance is enough to make him quit.

In the second Holyfield fight he fouled out because he knew that Evander would fight him given the chance.

Against McBride he just quit and sat on his rear like a child in the Nursery.

These 4 rounders will propbably mean that he trains better than he has in years but he will always be the proverbial bully that can dish it out but not recieve it.

An advantage that Foreman has was that he was smart. He knew he could no longer be a destructive punching machine and therefore he paced himself. This resulted in a number of distance fights.

I do not believe that Tyson is smart enough or physically conditioned enough to do that.

Everyone that EVER beat Tyson did so for one reason and one reason only. They FOUGHT back.

Old bones Ian · Post by **Old bones Ian** » 23 Oct 2006, 17:08

I always thought it was strange that Foreman fought Jimmy Young in Puerto Rico, if you had a heavyweight who uses up alot of energy and stamina in the first few rounds, and he was up against a guy renouned for his chin and stamina, would you stage the fight in high humidity and heat?

Would Tyson ever be able to "do a Foreman"

Would Tyson ever be able to "do a Foreman"

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