Fighters who learned on the job

kick asner · Post by **kick asner** » 24 Oct 2006, 08:21

There are guys like Ray Leonard and Oscar Delhoya who had extensive ametuear careers learning at a young age with the best coaches and by the time they reached the pros they hit the ground running already houshold names. What about the other side. Fighters who were forced to go pro before they had any real expirience. Maybe due to circumstances of hardship and poverty. Having to learn his trade the hard way by taking some losses. Or a guy learning in prison, or maybe a guy who was looking to find his place in the world having worked a series of dead end jobs and not having the resources to go back to school so he tried boxing as a way out. Any thoughts.

Martin Sosa Cameron · Post by **Martin Sosa Cameron** » 24 Oct 2006, 10:55

The Argentinian heavyweight Rafael Iglesias, Olympic heavy Champion, make very late his pro debut; opposing Ray Leonard and Oscar de la Hoya, this is an example of irrationality and the antithesis of a good manager and his fighter

overhand_right · Post by **overhand_right** » 24 Oct 2006, 11:04

Guys like Lionel Butler, Garing Lane, turned pro with no amateur fights.

Tim Witherspoon had very few amateur fights, 10 or less.

SticknMove · Post by **SticknMove** » 24 Oct 2006, 11:07

Best examples I can think of at the moment is Roberto Duran, a pro at 15/16 I believe and JC Chavez didn't have many amateurs fights either.

In regards to learning the hard way, Henry Armstrong lost 3 of his first 4 fights so he must rank up there.

overhand_right · Post by **overhand_right** » 24 Oct 2006, 12:06

Mike Weaver.

Seamus · Post by **Seamus** » 24 Oct 2006, 12:44

Dwight Muhammad Qawi turned pro at 25 after a stint in prison, won world titles at LHW and CW and made the HOF.

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 24 Oct 2006, 14:34

Vitali Klitschko

(now let's see how long the silence holds...)

DoubleM · Post by **DoubleM** » 24 Oct 2006, 16:08

Quite a lot of the old timers learned on the job. Trial and error. Ike Williams is a classic case. Was a bit up-and-down at the start, then he ironed out in the middle and became a wrecking machine.

dempseyfire · Post by **dempseyfire** » 24 Oct 2006, 16:16

pundit wrote:Vitali Klitschko

(now let's see how long the silence holds...)

?? Considering he had an extensive amatuer and professional kickboxing background, as well as a solid amateur boxing background before he turned pro, and I can't see how he'd apply here at all.

TheRiverCityHippy · Post by **TheRiverCityHippy** » 24 Oct 2006, 16:24

DoubleM wrote:Quite a lot of the old timers learned on the job. Trial and error. Ike Williams is a classic case. Was a bit up-and-down at the start, then he ironed out in the middle and became a wrecking machine.

not in the same class as williams but cardiff`s steve robinson had plenty of early losses and was considered a journeyman until he took a title fight at about 3 days notice just as a stand in opponent.
he surprisingly upset the odds and won the fight, but far from being a one off he suddenly gained confidence, and went on a winning run that included decent fighters like paul hodkinson, colin mcmillan and duke mckenzie before finally losing the belt to naseem hamed.

The Great John L · Post by **The Great John L** » 24 Oct 2006, 16:24

dempseyfire wrote:
pundit wrote:Vitali Klitschko

(now let's see how long the silence holds...)
?? Considering he had an extensive amatuer and professional kickboxing background, as well as a solid amateur boxing background before he turned pro, and I can't see how he'd apply here at all.

I think he was just fishing...

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 24 Oct 2006, 16:42

dempseyfire wrote:
pundit wrote:Vitali Klitschko

(now let's see how long the silence holds...)
?? Considering he had an extensive amatuer and professional kickboxing background, as well as a solid amateur boxing background before he turned pro, and I can't see how he'd apply here at all.

Boxing and kickboxing are very different things. Vitali had the stance of a kickboxer throughout his boxing career, never fully adapted, never threw a jab with his body behind it. This is why people said he was "awkward". Compare him to his younger brother.

Expug · Post by **Expug** » 24 Oct 2006, 17:31

Billy Conn .
He never fought amateur.
He once said "If your gonna get punched in the head ya might as well get paid".

DoubleM · Post by **DoubleM** » 24 Oct 2006, 21:54

headhunter wrote:
DoubleM wrote:Quite a lot of the old timers learned on the job. Trial and error. Ike Williams is a classic case. Was a bit up-and-down at the start, then he ironed out in the middle and became a wrecking machine.
not in the same class as williams but cardiff`s steve robinson had plenty of early losses and was considered a journeyman until he took a title fight at about 3 days notice just as a stand in opponent.
he surprisingly upset the odds and won the fight, but far from being a one off he suddenly gained confidence, and went on a winning run that included decent fighters like paul hodkinson, colin mcmillan and duke mckenzie before finally losing the belt to naseem hamed.

Actually I have those fights on film. Including his thrashing from Hamed, though

Robinson's problem was that he was a bit stiff and mechanical, or at least I thought so. One dimensional also... His defence was just a barrier of gloves.

Ross · Post by **Ross** » 24 Oct 2006, 22:45

Jeff Chandler had 3 Ameteur fights I hink and went on to be a great pro

Thunder and Lightning · Post by **Thunder and Lightning** » 25 Oct 2006, 04:43

Didn't Hasim Rahman have like 10 amatuer bouts before turning pro.

wouter · Post by **wouter** » 25 Oct 2006, 04:55

I think Pinklon Thomas had very little amateur experience.

The Great John L · Post by **The Great John L** » 25 Oct 2006, 06:17

Bonecrusher

I don't think it's really that uncommon for HWs.

overhand_right · Post by **overhand_right** » 25 Oct 2006, 07:29

Yea, little amateur experience and thrown in with 3-0 James Broad in his debut fight. And Broad had been an outstanding amateur.

He also was thrown in as an opponent for future champ Ricky Parkey in his 2nd fight, but surprisingly won!

Sweet P · Post by **Sweet P** » 25 Oct 2006, 07:37

Anthony Mundine only had 4 amature fights. And although he is a dickhead he is doing fairly well so far in his career.

JC · Post by JC » 25 Oct 2006, 08:18

Ben Keilty wrote:Anthony Mundine only had 4 amature fights. And although he is a dickhead he is doing fairly well so far in his career.

I had heard this, but I was thinking he must have had some experience as a kid, considering who his Dad was, or was he just not interested in boxing then?

kick asner · Post by **kick asner** » 25 Oct 2006, 20:30

Ross wrote:Jeff Chandler had 3 Ameteur fights I hink and went on to be a great pro

In an interveiw Chandler talked about one of the ways he got into boxing was he came from a tough neiberhood where you were forced to fight on a regular basis. Thats where he said he gained his early expirience.

Ross · Post by **Ross** » 25 Oct 2006, 23:12

Thanks for the background on Chandler I always like him when e was fighting.

Anthony Mundine had some fights in Vena Watu, and when the dickhead wanted to represent Australia at an Olympics or Commonwealth games the ameteur establishment endorsed him as an ameteur although he had had 3 or so pro fights that were "off the record".

Mundine is in a position to do a lot of good for Australian sport and the aboriginal people but he is to full of himself to do anything to help anyone other han himself.

I live in an area where there is a very high incidence of public dunkenness and trauancy is out of control with the problem 99.9% aboriginal, my office junior cannot go to the post office as she is attractive and is chased and harassed by drunken aboriginal men at 8.30 am. I have made requests of him to come to the area as a role model for the youth and he doesn't return my calls - he has a good mouth to bad he doesn't back it up

Sorry to sound off about Mundine but couldn't help myself - and every one is always helping him or making excuses for him - like when he made the stuipid comment about Sep 11, media people were saying he was taken out of context.

Ross

Nels · Post by **Nels** » 26 Oct 2006, 07:44

The guy' still active, obviously, but didn't Rafa Marquez end up fighting Victor Rabanales a few months after he turned pro? Don't know much about his amateur career, but throwing the guy in at the deep end! I remember seeing McCullough vs Rabanales, and Victor looked twice McCullough's size. To put a novice in with a guy like that... Crazy.

And I know he has that old Soviet amateur style, but didn't Maskaev fight a bevy of hard nuts in his first dozen fights, McCall and some 25-1 Russian amongst them?

Also, as it's the BOTP forum, I hereby nominate one of my favourite fighters, Fearless Freddie Pendleton.

lankester · Post by **lankester** » 27 Oct 2006, 13:37

jd chapman ...