Your opinion of Joe Calzaghe's willingness to fight the best

ALI · Post by **ALI** » 31 Oct 2006, 04:24

Cast your vote............

Smit · Post by **Smit** » 31 Oct 2006, 06:53

I think it's a little of:
A champion who has avoided some big fights!
A good champion who has been unlucky with getting the big fights!

He has avoided some fights but I don't think EVERY fight that didn't happen can be blamed on him.

Taki... · Post by **Taki...** » 31 Oct 2006, 07:50

THE 2 big fights (to this point) he missed out on were Beyer and Ottke. Would anyone have advised him to travel to Germany for either of those fights?

emma · Post by **emma** » 31 Oct 2006, 07:58

Yes but the question IS how do you its joe avoiding the big fights and not warren?.

liamlion · Post by **liamlion** » 31 Oct 2006, 08:16

emma wrote:Yes but the question IS how do you its joe avoiding the big fights and not warren?.

I think Calzaghe has pretty much been the master of his own destiny.

You only had to watch the ITV documentary 'No ordinary Joe' to get an insight into why Calzaghe has never fought the truly top fighters and also why he has pulled out of so many fights. At one stage Warren and Enzo mentioned that Joe wanted to pull out of the Lacy fight with with 2 weeks to go. To be fair when telling the story Warren looked exasperated at the situation and had to tell Calzaghe that if he did pull out, his career was finished because he would have no more credibility. During the course of the documentary both Warren and Enzo accused Joe of being a hypochondriac.

I think the situation shows that perhaps by Warren's own admission he has let Cazlaghe get away with a bit too much.

emma · Post by **emma** » 31 Oct 2006, 08:46

yh but in the hatton book ricky says joes admitted being frustrated.

pasty_spud · Post by **pasty_spud** » 31 Oct 2006, 16:11

frustrated at what???

cos we're all frustrated at his inability to step up...cos we all know he has the skills, the lacy fight proved that :x

it looks like a self-confidence thing to me.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 31 Oct 2006, 16:31

Wheres the proof he ducked anyone?

The only thing you can go off is that the fights havent happened.

THE 2 big fights (to this point) he missed out on were Beyer and Ottke. Would anyone have advised him to travel to Germany for either of those fights?

No one should ever have advised it with Ottke.

Can;t remember what it was from but remember Joe saying he never ever got any offers to fight Ottke.

Kessler sorted out Beyer anyway, so all thats irrelevant now.

liamlion · Post by **liamlion** » 31 Oct 2006, 16:59

Max Molyneux wrote:Wheres the proof he ducked anyone?

I think its well known that Calzaghe signed to fight Glen Johnson on three seperate occassions, only for Joe to pull out each times. Calzaghe also did the same to Clinton Woods.

When a fighter doesnt fight a valid opponent, blaming:
* injuries; or
* the other fighter's "excessive" cash demands; or
* the other fighter "doesnt bring anything to the table"

...more often than not, such excuses are simply a coded way of ducking an opponent.

Interestingly Joe Calzaghe has used all three examples, on multiple occassions.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 31 Oct 2006, 17:02

His hands ain't stopping him from an early next year fight though, so we can't be sure he's ducking Kessler like most are making out too prematurely.

As for Johnson, he can't fight him now after the Woods fight.

Floyd · Post by **Floyd** » 31 Oct 2006, 17:06

If I was Johnson I wouldn't fight him anyway. Joe had 3 chances to fight him.

Bard of Boxrec · Post by **Bard of Boxrec** » 31 Oct 2006, 18:42

I had to vote 5. Calzaghe was 'take it or leave it' with Lacy. Lacy was the guy who wanted the fight- AND SO PRESSED FOR THE FIGHT.

Calzaghe has never shown any evidence of pressing for fights, calling guys out, noticing who's up there and picking out names, actively seeking the competition. Compared to other p4p stars of the last 10 years his record is embarassing. All of those guys in those lists hunted down the best and secured the top fights. And if there weren't any top fights around, they damn well moved towards the competition.

In no order

Morales
Barrera
Mayweather
Jones
Hopkins
De la Hoya
Pacquaio
Winky
Castillo

etc etc

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 31 Oct 2006, 18:45

Lacy was the guy who wanted the fight- AND SO PRESSED FOR THE FIGHT.

This is a fact, yet Pundit doesn't believe so.

Deram · Post by **Deram** » 31 Oct 2006, 21:46

Max Molyneux wrote:
Lacy was the guy who wanted the fight- AND SO PRESSED FOR THE FIGHT.
This is a fact, yet Pundit doesn't believe so.

This is true. Lacy was the one who pressed for the fight, but that again confirms Joe's lack of willingness to fight the best unless he is basically cornered.

Nels · Post by **Nels** » 01 Nov 2006, 07:32

Careful there, Deram, you'll blind the guy with logic if you keep this up...

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 01 Nov 2006, 08:54

I'd blind you with my years ahead of my time wisdom.

Nels · Post by **Nels** » 01 Nov 2006, 09:09

Yup, that and your ability to gauge a superstar fighter's worth & abilities without having ever seen him fight.

Always amazes me when you do that. Do you have your own crystal ball or do you borrow one?

Taki... · Post by **Taki...** » 01 Nov 2006, 09:18

Max Molyneux wrote:Wheres the proof he ducked anyone?

The only thing you can go off is that the fights havent happened.

THE 2 big fights (to this point) he missed out on were Beyer and Ottke. Would anyone have advised him to travel to Germany for either of those fights?
No one should ever have advised it with Ottke.

Can;t remember what it was from but remember Joe saying he never ever got any offers to fight Ottke.

Kessler sorted out Beyer anyway, so all thats irrelevant now.

Beyer sorted himself out... he swapped his title for a nice big fat cheque(just like Chris Byrd). If Warren had coughed up some £££ Calzaghe and not Kessler could have the WBC belt in his collection, but uncle Frank is a little unwilling to part with his money... unless a fighter has him over a barrel (see: Hatton/Tszyu).

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 01 Nov 2006, 09:20

Nels wrote:Yup, that and your ability to gauge a superstar fighter's worth & abilities without having ever seen him fight.

Always amazes me when you do that. Do you have your own crystal ball or do you borrow one?

Crystal balls are overated.

Freita's could of done the offer when Corrales was champ.

Nels · Post by **Nels** » 01 Nov 2006, 09:35

"Crystal balls are over-rated.."

As indeed, if your comments the other day to Terence about Jose Luis Castillo can be believed (and I can search out the link if you like) is using a fvcking television to inform yourself before opening your enormous mouth.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 01 Nov 2006, 09:38

Taki... wrote:
Max Molyneux wrote:Wheres the proof he ducked anyone?

The only thing you can go off is that the fights havent happened.

THE 2 big fights (to this point) he missed out on were Beyer and Ottke. Would anyone have advised him to travel to Germany for either of those fights?
No one should ever have advised it with Ottke.

Can;t remember what it was from but remember Joe saying he never ever got any offers to fight Ottke.

Kessler sorted out Beyer anyway, so all thats irrelevant now.
Beyer sorted himself out... he swapped his title for a nice big fat cheque(just like Chris Byrd). If Warren had coughed up some £££ Calzaghe and not Kessler could have the WBC belt in his collection, but uncle Frank is a little unwilling to part with his money... unless a fighter has him over a barrel (see: Hatton/Tszyu).

where's your proof of that? A lot of fighters will have no answer for Kessler's jab.

Did you read 'Dougie's Mailbag', which said Beyer basically quit? Or did you watch the full fight, in which Markus got dominated, battered by a left jab & then knocked senseless with a right?

Warren had a chance to bring Beyer over. Why did he apparently insist that the fight be in September, a date that Beyer couldn't make? Beyer needed October...& then Calzaghr ends up fighting Bika in October??

Would you have given Calzaghe credit for beating Beyer, I wonder?

I know one good reason why Calzaghe never went after a Beyer fight. He was ringside when his pal Richie Woodhall got knocked over two or three times by the German.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 01 Nov 2006, 09:54

Who voted for "unlucky getting the big fights" surely nobody can believe that? He has been happy to make decent money in his backyard in mediocre fights for the most part.

Taki... · Post by **Taki...** » 01 Nov 2006, 10:09

viciousmaussa wrote:
Taki... wrote:
Max Molyneux wrote:Wheres the proof he ducked anyone?

The only thing you can go off is that the fights havent happened.
No one should ever have advised it with Ottke.

Can;t remember what it was from but remember Joe saying he never ever got any offers to fight Ottke.

Kessler sorted out Beyer anyway, so all thats irrelevant now.
Beyer sorted himself out... he swapped his title for a nice big fat cheque(just like Chris Byrd). If Warren had coughed up some £££ Calzaghe and not Kessler could have the WBC belt in his collection, but uncle Frank is a little unwilling to part with his money... unless a fighter has him over a barrel (see: Hatton/Tszyu).
where's your proof of that? A lot of fighters will have no answer for Kessler's jab.

Did you read 'Dougie's Mailbag', which said Beyer basically quit? Or did you watch the full fight, in which Markus got dominated, battered by a left jab & then knocked senseless with a right?

Warren had a chance to bring Beyer over. Why did he apparently insist that the fight be in September, a date that Beyer couldn't make? Beyer needed October...& then Calzaghr ends up fighting Bika in October??

Would you have given Calzaghe credit for beating Beyer, I wonder?

I know one good reason why Calzaghe never went after a Beyer fight. He was ringside when his pal Richie Woodhall got knocked over two or three times by the German.

Well, for a start Beyer went to Denmark! Secondly, Beyer had been avoiding his mandatory (because he knew he'd lose). And thirdly, I saw the fight! Beyer looked like he'd lost before he started and upon being KD'd showed no ambition, fight, or passion. Kessler did his job, but Beyer was only there to get his pre-retirement payday. Beyer wasn't 'knocked senseless' he was solidly Kd'd... hyperbole is not a valid argument.

Warren didn't bring Beyer over because he wants a payday. Beyer, despite being a long reigning champion, is not a draw anywhere but Germany (and, to a degree, Denmark). Frank has his sights set on US TV money, which neither Beyer not Kessler will help with.

No, Calzaghe would have gotten as much (or as little) credit as Kessler for beating the cheque collecting version of Beyer.

Calzaghe didn't go after Beyer because 1. fighting in Germany, no matter how good you are, is a huge gamble. And 2. Warren would never have paid Beyer enough to leave Germany.
As for watching Beyer KD Woodhall twice... terrifying. Almost as scary as watching Glenn Catley outbox and TKO Beyer. No wonder Calzaghe kept clear...

mattyp151 · Post by **mattyp151** » 01 Nov 2006, 10:09

His willingness to take the big fights doesn't exist.

Taki... · Post by **Taki...** » 01 Nov 2006, 10:11

Mattyp151 wrote:His willingness to take the big fights doesn't exist.

'Lacy by late stoppage', ring any bells?

Your opinion of Joe Calzaghe's willingness to fight the best

Your opinion of Joe Calzaghe's willingness to fight the best!

Your opinion of Joe Calzaghe's willingness to fight the best